Turkey and Russia vs ISIS

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Post by VivaStPauli Wed Nov 25, 2015 11:27 am

I don't know about Turkey backing the IS;
First off, I don't think the evidence is convincing. On the other hand, it's a lot of accusations being repeated a lot, so while that in itself doesn't prove anything, it does make me curious.

I'm torn:
1) Erdogan is a grade A dickbag, an utter twat, a menace to democracy and the scourge of the Turkish people, who are not only proud, but also have steadily progressed towards peace, prosperity, and liberty for the past few decades, so obviously I think Erdogan is doing something heinous at any given time.
1.1.) I totally think Erdogan would be stupid/self-serving enough to back ISIS just to f*ck with the Kurds, not even because he hates the Kurds that much (though he seems to do that), but because it distracts the populace from the fact he's starting to dismantle both democracy and seperation of church and state in Turkey.

On the other hand there's
2) Even Erdogan must be clear on the fact that Turkey must in the long run be a massive target for ISIS. It's a nation characterized by a very, very laid-back version of Islam, with lots of Alewites as well, and if those ISIS assholes have a rage-boner for anything, it's killing muslims that aren't 100% in agreement with their particular brand of radical islamism.

2.2.) I really think, leaky as Turkey is, that a lot of what has been levied in accusations might just be ineptitude to keep the borders closed, and local officials being easy to bribe. So they might be "supporting ISIS" the same way the US is "supporting Mexican drug cartels" by semi-accidentally supporting guns.

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Post by mr-r34 Wed Nov 25, 2015 11:42 am

Il Diavolo wrote:Turkey is not just anti-Asad. They have been actively supporting ISIS since its inception. They are the biggest purchasers of ISIS oil. They are the main route ISIS fighters have been going through to get to Syria. And along with this, they have been constantly bombing the (US and Europe supported) Kurds, who are the only effective group in the region fighting against ISIS.

Why Turkey is still a NATO member and an "ally" to the States and Europe is beyond me.


Finially.
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Post by EarlyPrototype Wed Nov 25, 2015 11:55 am

@Cruijf
1- Turkey and ISIS share a common enemy in the Kurds, who they both passionately despise and want to exterminate.
2- It is primarily YPG and Peshmarga fighting IS. Not the PKK in Turkey.
3- Turkey is buying oil from ISIS for very low prices.
4- I have seen footage of a shipment from Turkey to Syria being intercepted. Hidden in the shipment were arms and ammunition. Were they going to FSA or IS? I can't say for sure, but my money is on IS.
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Post by Mamad Wed Nov 25, 2015 5:52 pm

Turkey and Saudi Aarabia. 2 countries in middle east supporting ISIS the most.
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Post by Cruijf Thu Nov 26, 2015 3:25 am

@EP:

1. Blatantly incorrect lol, sorry. This government has raised the status of Kurds in general. They now a have a major party in parliament and wouldn't if not for the efforts of Erdgoan and co. The problem is with PKK.
2. Not sure what your point is. PKK is fighting ISIS though. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/isis-in-iraq-young-kurds-flock-to-pkk-to-take-up-arms-against-militants-after-becoming-disillusioned-10492171.html
3. Unproven
4. Conjecture
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Post by Il Diavolo Fri Nov 27, 2015 3:20 am

Relevant:
http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/prosecutor-demands-arrests-of-two-journalists-for-intelligence-truck-story.aspx?pageID=238&nID=91722&NewsCatID=339
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Post by sportsczy Fri Nov 27, 2015 4:01 am

It is interesting that Turkey is left unscathed by ISIS while everyone else is attacked/targeted either directly of via terrorism...  can't be coincidence.
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Post by Pedram Fri Nov 27, 2015 7:54 am

sportsczy wrote:It is interesting that Turkey is left unscathed by ISIS while everyone else is attacked/targeted either directly of via terrorism...  can't be coincidence.

2015 Ankara bombings was probably carried by ISIS affiliates inside Turkey but ISIS hasn't claimed responsibility for it so far.

Probably because they don't want to anger the Islamist government of Turkey.
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Post by Cruijf Fri Nov 27, 2015 2:58 pm

sportsczy wrote:It is interesting that Turkey is left unscathed by ISIS while everyone else is attacked/targeted either directly of via terrorism...  can't be coincidence.


Please stop propagating nonsense like this. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkey%E2%80%93ISIL_conflict

Pedram wrote:

Probably because they don't want to anger the Islamist government of Turkey.


Too late. Turkey let the US use their military bases after the last attack and was actively fighting them on their own before that.
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Post by Robespierre Fri Nov 27, 2015 10:30 pm

Erdogan is a scumbag. I'm  sick to think the West is supporting this being human.
We're talking about that  Erdogan , markedly islamist  , who is establishing an authoritarian regime in Turkey , arresting journalists and repressing the Kurds in a  inhumane way .
Erdogan is trying to change the institutions of a laical country,effecting  an Islamist turn to its country.
Turkey and Erdogan are also close to that states who are the  absolute negation of democratic principles, such as  Saudi Arabia.
This Western trend to  defend  Erdogan and Turkey and then underlining Putin is the "  real danger " is a bad joke .
And there is no time to joke now.
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Post by Robespierre Sun Nov 29, 2015 12:53 am

erDOGan New Updating ....

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-34952954

our allies will  help us to spread the democracy in Syria Proud
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Post by Il Diavolo Sun Nov 29, 2015 8:05 am

Cruijf wrote:Too late. Turkey let the US use their military bases after the last attack and was actively fighting them on their own before that.


Apparently the Saudi Air Force is also involved in bombing ISIS.
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Post by Pedram Mon Nov 30, 2015 5:13 pm

Meet The Man Who Funds ISIS: Bilal Erdogan, The Son Of Turkey’s President

http://www.mintpressnews.com/211624-2/211624/
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Post by Robespierre Sat Jan 02, 2016 12:05 am

Tayyip Erdogan.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jan/01/turkish-president-recep-tayyip-erdogan-hitlers-germany-example-effective-government
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Post by Art Morte Wed Mar 30, 2016 5:55 am

Why is the thread just Russia and Turkey?

Anyway, this sums up how stupid the U.S.'s strategy is in Syria:

http://www.latimes.com/world/middleeast/la-fg-cia-pentagon-isis-20160327-story.html

Syrian militias armed by different parts of the U.S. war machine have begun to fight each other on the plains between the besieged city of Aleppo and the Turkish border, highlighting how little control U.S. intelligence officers and military planners have over the groups they have financed and trained in the bitter five-year-old civil war.

The fighting has intensified over the last two months, as CIA-armed units and Pentagon-armed ones have repeatedly shot at each other while maneuvering through contested territory on the northern outskirts of Aleppo, U.S. officials and rebel leaders have confirmed.

In mid-February, a CIA-armed militia called Fursan al Haq, or Knights of Righteousness, was run out of the town of Marea, about 20 miles north of Aleppo, by Pentagon-backed Syrian Democratic Forces moving in from Kurdish-controlled areas to the east.

Anyone with half a brain could see stuff like this happening. "Let's arm the good rebels, so they'll take control and be our friends and everything will be fine over there, then." Yeah, not gonna work out like that over there.
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Post by FennecFox7 Wed Mar 30, 2016 7:20 am

I've given up on the middle east to an extent. That place is hopeless. Just hope they don't bring their violence to the Maghreb. We fought a brutal war against the French for years only recently (that pretty much everyone of the older generation, including my family was a part of). If ISIS comes we'll skin them alive. We already have a shitty government to be mad about lol, can't imagine what would happen to ISIS if the people took out their anger on them in Algeria Laughing
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Post by Pedram Wed Mar 30, 2016 10:47 am

Art Morte wrote:Why is the thread just Russia and Turkey?

Anyway, this sums up how stupid the U.S.'s strategy is in Syria:

http://www.latimes.com/world/middleeast/la-fg-cia-pentagon-isis-20160327-story.html

Syrian militias armed by different parts of the U.S. war machine have begun to fight each other on the plains between the besieged city of Aleppo and the Turkish border, highlighting how little control U.S. intelligence officers and military planners have over the groups they have financed and trained in the bitter five-year-old civil war.

The fighting has intensified over the last two months, as CIA-armed units and Pentagon-armed ones have repeatedly shot at each other while maneuvering through contested territory on the northern outskirts of Aleppo, U.S. officials and rebel leaders have confirmed.

In mid-February, a CIA-armed militia called Fursan al Haq, or Knights of Righteousness, was run out of the town of Marea, about 20 miles north of Aleppo, by Pentagon-backed Syrian Democratic Forces moving in from Kurdish-controlled areas to the east.

Anyone with half a brain could see stuff like this happening. "Let's arm the good rebels, so they'll take control and be our friends and everything will be fine over there, then." Yeah, not gonna work out like that over there.

tbh they don't care who's fighting who, the only winner in this war is the arm industry that is selling weapons to both sides.
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Post by Robespierre Thu Mar 31, 2016 12:19 am

At least Palmira was recaptured.
This confirms Isis is losing at its home.
It was crucial   the Russian aid, while Turkey bombards Kurdish, and the West .... it's not clear what it does.
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Post by Nishankly Tue Dec 13, 2016 9:05 pm

Aleppo under siege as we speak and apparently messages of genocide coming out from there, If something also inhumane as this happens to something that has been filmed and known about since years, Its a collective failure of humanity.
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Post by Nishankly Wed Dec 14, 2016 12:26 am

Also from the looks of it, This battle is between two civil forces, Assad and the FDA. ISIS is not even in the mix in this almost. Syria is messed up.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Aleppo_(2012%E2%80%9316)#/media/File:Rif_Aleppo2.svg

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Post by Nishankly Wed Dec 14, 2016 12:33 am

Robespierre wrote:At least Palmira was recaptured.
This confirms Isis is losing at its home.
It was crucial   the Russian aid, while Turkey bombards Kurdish, and the West .... it's not clear what it does.


ISIS recaptured it 2 days ago lol
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Post by rwo power Wed Dec 14, 2016 7:57 am

Nishankly wrote:Aleppo under siege as we speak and apparently messages of genocide coming out from there, If something also inhumane as this happens to something that has been filmed and known about since years, Its a collective failure of humanity.
And still there are so many rich countries refusing to help the refugees just because there might be a handful bad apples among them. Appalling.
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Post by RealGunner Thu Dec 15, 2016 1:22 am

We have failed as a human race. Once again.

When you think about the atrocities in the past, like holocaust or what happened in Cambodia or Stalin's Russia, you think how could people just watch it happen?

Now we are witnessing how.

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Post by iftikhar Fri Dec 16, 2016 10:23 am

While at a much smaller scale, another atrocity is silently executed on Rohingya population in Myanmar.
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Post by RealGunner Wed Dec 28, 2016 11:06 pm

Turkey's foreign minister says it has agreed with Russia a proposal for a ceasefire in Syria, where they back opposing sides in the civil war.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-38449551
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