The Terrifying Rise of ISIS

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Post by MJ Sat Aug 09, 2014 12:35 am

Looters, murderers, extremists and, oddly enough, Internet activists.

One of my professors, Hilal Khashan, once told me that Islam was greatly affected by Western imperialism. So much so, that it was approaching an age of reform but due to European activity in the Middle East it regressed in the complete opposite manner and the Muslim Brotherhood was born

This is one of the products of that regression, probably the most violent, radical and terrifying.


The latest: US conducts air strikes on ISIS militants in Iraq

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-28709530

http://www.businessinsider.com/us-air-strike-in-iraq-isis-2014-8
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Post by RealGunner Sat Aug 09, 2014 1:08 am

Disgusting what they are doing in Iraq and other places. Murdering the parents infront of their children in the Yazidis dominant areas. Burning Christian majority towns.

Thankfully other countries can openly send in aid and other military help.
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Post by RealGunner Sat Aug 09, 2014 6:02 am

Iraqi official says hundreds of Yazidi women taken captive by Islamic State militants.
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Post by BarrileteCosmico Sat Aug 09, 2014 6:57 am

This Iraq is such a cluster****. What are the thoughts on splitting it up along ethnic lines here? I used to think it was just the latest grand white man idea but considering how the original borders were drawn up in the aftermath of WWI by imperial France and England I'm more open to the idea. The Kurds on the very least want to be their own country.
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Post by •MilanDevil• Sat Aug 09, 2014 8:55 am

Iraq went downhill after the murder of King Faisal 2. I don't think Iraq will split since many groups benefit from these disputes and will try and make sure that it stays this way. Also, I don't think the middle east will ever be safe again until all major resources are exhausted, most rulers remaining in middle east are corrupt people. Once the resources will be exhausted, the corrupt personals will have no more business in the region and will move on. I believe that this would be an opportunity for other people to go back to lands of their ancestors.


Last edited by •MilanDevil• on Sat Aug 09, 2014 10:08 am; edited 1 time in total
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Post by RED Sat Aug 09, 2014 9:34 am

**** these scumbags and anyone who loves or supports them.
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Post by mr-r34 Sat Aug 09, 2014 12:06 pm

@BarrileteCosmico wrote:This Iraq is such a cluster****. What are the thoughts on splitting it up along ethnic lines here? I used to think it was just the latest grand white man idea but considering how the original borders were drawn up in the aftermath of WWI by imperial France and England I'm more open to the idea. The Kurds on the very least want to be their own country.


Your going to have to split it up in like 4 countries, won't ever work.
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Post by RealGunner Sat Aug 09, 2014 12:09 pm

They will all end up fighting each other anyways even after splitting up. Like I said in the Gaza thread, the hate is too strong in Middle East and Parts Asia. Hatred deep in the roots which will carry on for another few decades if not centuries.

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Post by Tomwin Lannister Sat Aug 09, 2014 1:14 pm

I don't see how any outside influence is going to solve this conflict

Chances are it will carry on long after we're gone
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Post by •MilanDevil• Sat Aug 09, 2014 4:23 pm

@RealGunner wrote:They will all end up fighting each other anyways even after splitting up. Like I said in the Gaza thread, the hate is too strong in Middle East and Parts Asia. Hatred deep in the roots which will carry on for another few decades if not centuries.



A lot of young Iraqis are actually supporting each other and are willing to stand with each other. Iraq is extremely multicultural with people having roots from all over the world, not surprising considering the history of the land. I hope that the youth continue to stick strongly with each other. I know this because I am an Iraqi-Canadian and I regularly see activities being done on social media sites.
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Post by MJ Sat Aug 09, 2014 9:12 pm

This is a relatively short time span we're talking about when we discuss the rise of radical Islamists, a century or so? And it's already viewed as impractical, horrific and wrong by most Middle Easterners who are just regular people, irrespective of their personal beliefs.

ISIS aren't even that big of a group, they're just making big moves that are catching attention.

Since the US is almost wholly responsible for the birth of ISIS and Al-Qaeda, its former parent group, it is just as responsible for the actions it carries out today.
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Post by Pedram Sun Aug 10, 2014 6:45 am

Christian man forced to his knees, surrounded by masked militants, identified in the video as members of ISIS. They force the man at gunpoint to "convert" to Islam. Then, the group beheads him.

Disgusting. :facepalm:
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Post by RealGunner Sun Aug 10, 2014 6:47 am

How can they even claim to bring back caliphate with these barbaric actions. Disgusting.
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Post by Tomwin Lannister Sun Aug 10, 2014 6:48 am

Somebody needs to wipe these *bleep* out.
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Post by Adit Sun Aug 10, 2014 10:32 am

The ease with which terrorist groups are formed in the name of religion in middle East is shocking.
Don't blame rise of terrorist organisations on US..from pajistan-china all the way to Africa lot of terrorist organisations are there in the name of Islam and until the prophet comes back and ban all these groups there will not be any peace in middle east.
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Post by Mamad Sun Aug 10, 2014 5:59 pm

Why not blame US? they were defending these animals in Syria. west were giving them weapons.

they couldn't do sh*t without foreign support.


Last edited by Mamad on Sun Aug 10, 2014 8:11 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Post by Art Morte Sun Aug 10, 2014 7:06 pm

I don't think the West has any permanent solution to the issues over there - like, look how quickly it came to this once the Americans and others withdrew their troops - so maybe they should just be left to fight it out with each others over there and see what sort of balance that brings?
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Post by Peccadillo Sun Aug 10, 2014 10:49 pm

I would be cautious with any information being disseminated about whats going on in Iraq/Syria right now.

I don't know what to believe with all this.. its too early to tell.

We are hearing stories about Christians being beheaded etc.. But many spokespeople deny these allegations and are saying the only executions taking place are against Iraqi military or enemy combatants.

Under Sharia there is no compulsion to convert to Islam, you are free to believe what you want providing you pay your Jizya and abide by other limitations such as building "shrines" etc..
Not that I agree with treating people as second class citizens based on their religious views in any case, but I think its important to be clear that if it is true Christians are being beheaded for refusing to make shahada and convert then it is most likely by the uneducated, impressionable young "soldiers" who seem to make up most of these recruits.

I do agree though.. I find the whole thing terrifying indeed.. I certainly don't feel comfortable with wahhabi nut-jobs in possession of nuclear arms in the near future or ever. I know some Wahhabis in my area and to listen to them speak in support of the alleged actions of ISIS is disgusting. In one sentence vilifying Israel for their actions, then in the very next sentence condoning the alleged actions of this disorganised, brutal and archaic mob - seems to me a tad hypocritical.

Moderate Muslims need to stand up.. Moderate Muslims get the lid put on them by these radicals who simply dismiss their views as being unreligious. Scared to speak up, voices of reason amongst sunni muslim communities are very much quashed.
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Post by BarrileteCosmico Tue Aug 12, 2014 9:02 am

Iraq crisis: West’s ‘mandate’ limited by national borders – and don’t dare mention oil

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/iraq-crisis-wests-mandate-limited-by-national-borders--and-dont-dare-mention-oil-9660393.html

Spoiler:
In the Middle East, the first shots of every war define the narrative we all dutifully follow. So too, this greatest crisis since the last greatest crisis in Iraq. Christians fleeing for their lives? Save them. Yazidis starving on the mountain tops? Give them food. Islamists advancing on Irbil? Bomb them. Bomb their convoys and “artillery” and their fighters, and bomb them again and again until…

Well, the first clue about the timeframe of our latest Middle East adventure came at the weekend when Barack Obama told the world – in the most disguised “mission creep” of recent history – that “I don’t think we’re going to solve this problem [sic] in weeks – this is going to take time.” So how much time? At least a month, obviously. And maybe six months. Or maybe a year? Or more? After the 1991 Gulf War – there have actually been three such conflicts in the past three-and-a-half decades, with another in the making – the Americans and British imposed a “no-fly” zone over southern Iraq and Kurdistan. And they bombed the military “threats” they discovered in Saddam’s Iraq for the next 12 years.

So is Obama laying the groundwork – the threat of “genocide”, the American “mandate” from the impotent government in Baghdad to strike at Iraq’s enemies – for another prolonged air war in Iraq? And if so, what makes him – or us – think that the Islamists busy creating their caliphate in Iraq and Syria are going to play along with this cheerful scenario. Do the US President and the Pentagon and Centcom – and, I suppose, the childishly named British Cobra committee – really believe that Isis, for all its medieval ideology, is going to sit on the plains of Ninevah and wait to be destroyed by our munitions?

No, the lads from Isis or the Islamic State or the caliphate or whatever they like to call themselves are simply going to divert their attacks elsewhere. If the road to Irbil is closed, then they’ll take the road to Aleppo or Damascus which the Americans and British will be less willing to bomb or defend – because that would mean helping the regime of Bashar al-Assad of Syria, whom we must hate almost as much as we hate the Islamic State. Yet if the Islamists do try to capture all of Aleppo, besiege Damascus, and push on across the Lebanese frontier – the largely Sunni Mediterranean city of Tripoli would seem a choice target – we are going to be forced to expand our precious “mandate” to include two more countries, not least because they border the one nation even more deserving of our love and protection than Kurdistan: Israel. Anyone thought of that?

And then, of course, there’s the unmentionable. When “we” liberated Kuwait in 1991, we all had to recite – again and again – that this war was not about oil. And when we invaded Iraq in 2003, again we had to repeat, ad nauseam, that this act of aggression was not about oil – as if the US Marines would have been sent to Mesopotamia if its major export was asparagus. And now, as we protect our beloved Westerners in Irbil and succour the Yazidis in the mountains of Kurdistan and mourn for the tens of thousands of Christians fleeing from the iniquities of Isis, we must not – do not and will not – mention oil.

I wonder why not. For is it not significant – or just a bit relevant – that Kurdistan accounts for 43.7 billion barrels of Iraq’s 143 billion barrels of reserves, as well as 25.5 billion barrels of unproven reserves and three to six trillion cubic metres of gas? Global oil and gas conglomerates have been flocking to Kurdistan – hence the thousands of Westerners living in Irbil, although their presence has gone largely unexplained – and poured in upwards of $10bn in investments. Mobil, Chevron, Exxon and Total are on the ground – and Isis is not going to be allowed to mess with companies like these – in a place where oil operators stand to pick up 20 per cent of all profits.

Indeed, recent reports suggest that current Kurdish oil production of 200,000 barrels a day will reach 250,000 next year – providing the boys from the caliphate are kept at bay, of course – which means, according to Reuters, that if Iraqi Kurdistan were a real country and not just a bit of Iraq, it would be among the top 10 oil-rich countries in the world. Which is surely worth defending. But has anyone mentioned this? Has a single White House reporter pestered Obama with a single question about this salient fact?

Sure, we feel for the Christians of Iraq – although we cared little enough when their persecution started after our 2003 invasion. And we should protect the minority Yazidis, as we promised – but failed – to protect 1.5 million genocided Armenian Christians from their Muslim killers in the same region 99 years ago. But don’t let’s forget that the masters of the Middle East’s new caliphate are not fools. The boundaries of their war stretch far beyond our military “mandates”. And they know – even if we do not admit – that our real mandate includes that unspeakable word: oil.
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Post by Lord Awesome Wed Aug 13, 2014 2:47 pm

Pretty much spot on with US's real intentions in that area.
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Post by Art Morte Thu Aug 14, 2014 1:12 am

Civil wars have happened throughout history and have more or less stabilized nations. Just let them fight out one over there and establish some natural power.
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Post by BarrileteCosmico Thu Aug 14, 2014 9:23 am

@Art Morte wrote:Civil wars have happened throughout history and have more or less stabilized nations. Just let them fight out one over there and establish some natural power.
Are you being sarcastic? scratch
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Post by Art Morte Thu Aug 14, 2014 4:24 pm

@BarrileteCosmico wrote:
@Art Morte wrote:Civil wars have happened throughout history and have more or less stabilized nations. Just let them fight out one over there and establish some natural power.
Are you being sarcastic? scratch


A little, but not that much. If this happened a 100 years ago they would fight out a civil war over there and a more stabilized nation would appear. That's how it's gone in so many countries' history. The West have nowadays the means to force peace over there with their military presence, but they don't seem to have a permanent, peaceful solution to the problems in that region.
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Post by DuringTheWar Thu Aug 14, 2014 11:53 pm

Lots of reports of rape, and suspicions that about 1500 women largely Christian and Yazidi forced into slavery

http://www.un.org/apps/news/story.asp?NewsID=48477#.U-ysnOo1gv6

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Post by VivaStPauli Fri Aug 15, 2014 2:29 am

@Art Morte wrote:
@BarrileteCosmico wrote:
@Art Morte wrote:Civil wars have happened throughout history and have more or less stabilized nations. Just let them fight out one over there and establish some natural power.
Are you being sarcastic? scratch


A little, but not that much. If this happened a 100 years ago they would fight out a civil war over there and a more stabilized nation would appear. That's how it's gone in so many countries' history. The West have nowadays the means to force peace over there with their military presence, but they don't seem to have a permanent, peaceful solution to the problems in that region.


This article agrees with you:
http://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles/55210/edward-n-luttwak/give-war-a-chance
I read this in university a while ago, and while I agree with some points it's a bit bleak and cynical for my liking.

Regarding this current conflict, there have been more retarded ideas that have seen their implementation than arming the Kurds, a people in dire need, and well deserving of, their own nation.

This wishful thinking aside, if the Kurds manage to fight off ISIS, Turkey and Iran will be very worried about their borders.
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