What changes do you expect?

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Post by Art Morte Mon Oct 05, 2015 6:40 pm

Even though we don't know the new manager yet, I think we can expect to see a number of things change.

What formation(s) you think we'll be using?

Which players could get a bigger role? Which players a smaller role?



I think it's safe to say the three CBs bullshit will be gone. Not sure what formations we'll be seeing, but we need more urgency in attack and faster build-up play, hoping to see those change.

I wonder what will happen to the likes of Lovren and Allen... I could well see any new manager freeze them out. Could Enrique get a chance? Will Can be playing and where? Also interesting to see are we going to play with one or two strikers. And if it's two, who'll partner Sturridge, Benteke or Ings?

The players I expect to go straight into the new manager's XI are Mignolet, Skrtel, Sakho, Clyne, Coutinho and Sturridge, the rest of the spots up for grabs, imo.
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Post by Nishankly Mon Oct 05, 2015 6:44 pm

Am i the only one who thinks Skrtel's too inconsistent to play in the back 4?

Allen is an excellent squad player, I have no problems from his side. Can HAS to move into the midfield for his career's sake.

Im hoping there is more directness in our play and players start taking risks rather than keeping a high pass percentage.

What was Klopp's preferred formation at Dortmund?


Last edited by Nishankly on Mon Oct 05, 2015 7:11 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Post by McAgger Mon Oct 05, 2015 6:49 pm

Klopp exclusively played 4-2-3-1 at Dortmund
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Post by McAgger Mon Oct 05, 2015 6:55 pm

One of Benteke or Sturridge will be benched. Unless Humongous D is moved to the wing to play a Reus like role.

Usually Klopp has one winger who is more like a forward (Reus/Auba) and the other winger is a hardcore defensive workhorse (Kuba/Grosskreutz).

So we could play Sturridge on the right with the more defensively stable fullback in Clyne and have Markovic on the left helping out his attacking fullback Moreno much more.
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Post by Unique Mon Oct 05, 2015 6:58 pm

for posters in the know. what players in the Liverpool squad will be a good fit with klopp if we get him.
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Post by M99 Mon Oct 05, 2015 7:10 pm

I am happy as a Brazil fan on Klopp potentially being the coach. He did wonders for the development of Gotze and Reus, here's hoping he can do the same to Coutinho and Firmino.
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Post by iftikhar Mon Oct 05, 2015 7:16 pm

FFS...I wonder what would the sacking of Rodgers mean for the squad.
Would the new manager have enough quality to implement his blue-print?
Would the likes of Benteke and Firmino 'fit into' the philosophy of the new manager?
Would the young players (Ibe, Joe) have a place in his plan???
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Post by donttreadonred Mon Oct 05, 2015 11:27 pm

Changes…

Well, that’s a pretty broad term, isn’t it. So, let’s break it down into a few categories: staff, tactics, and players.

Staff:
My guess is that Sean O’Dricoll and Gary McAllister are both gone. It’s a bit unfortunate for them that they were caught up in Rodgers last-ditch efforts at redemption. However, that’s the way of the footballing world. I would guess that Klopp would bring in a couple of his back staff (rumored that includes Buvac and Krawietz) to join him on the bench. I sincerely hope that Pep Lijnders is allowed to stay on, and I think it’s likely given that his promotion always seemed more of a long-term appointment (and an organizational decision) than the other two.

Tactics:
As it’s already been said, the back-three is gone. Admittedly, I’ve oscillated wildly on my opinions of the back3’s implementation. It’s a perfectly valid formation/approach given the right circumstance, opposition, and personnel. My problem with Rodgers implementation of the system is that once we often used it in the wrong circumstance, against any opposition, and with the wrong personnel.

Klopp will almost certainly use a 4-2-3-1. He tends to favor two attacking fullbacks, a DLP, a DM, 2 creative CAMs (sometimes 1 CAM and one grafting winger/midfielder), a versatile wide-forward/CF, and a versatile #9. During his time at Dortmund, I didn’t have the opportunity to watch the Bundesliga as easily. Therefore, I don’t claim to have an intricate knowledge of his tactics. However, I can tell you that this basic setup is what was used every time I’ve seen him run out a team, and I expect it to be our “default” for the foreseeable future.  

Players:
Let’s take it from the tactics section, shall we:
- Goalkeeper: Weidenfeller is a considerably more vocal keeper than Mignolet. This could be an area that Klopp looks to improve upon in the next few windows. However, I doubt it will be an area of need in the immediate future. Mignolet will at the very least get the rest of the season to prove himself. After that, all bets are off.
- CBs: Sakho should be an automatic starter. Beyond that, it’s an interesting situation. I think Skrtel will likely retain his spot in the immediate future, with a replacement at RCB likely to come in during the January or Summer window (personally hoping for Nkoulou from Marseille). Lovren is likely not going to see much time in the side. Gomez will be groomed as an up-and-coming CB, but his partner is a question mark. I would love to see Ilori come back into the squad under Klopp, as he might be a perfect partner for Gomez.
- Two attacking fullbacks: Check (Moreno + Clyne). Their backups, however, are in question…
- One DM and one DLP: This is an area where Klopp’s tactics could bend a bit. At Dortmund, he would often run out the Bender twin and Gundogan/Sahin: a very clear cut DM & DLP combination. However, there is no equivalent for either at LFC. What we’re likely to see (when healthy) is a combination of Emre Can and Jordan Henderson in the Midfield roles. While neither are as good as Bender/Gundogan in their individual roles, as a combined unit, I believe they could perform the same combined role or shielding and distributing. The most important thing here is that I doubt we see Milner playing in midfield, barring emergency situations.
- 2 CAMs: Firmino and Coutinho easily lock up the roles that Goetze, Mkhitaryan, and Kagawa would have filled in some of Klopp’s sides.
  - Alternatively, Milner would fill the role of the grafting winger/CM, when needed.
- WF/CF: This is a fun one, as we don’t have someone with the squad that seems a natural fit in this role. Sturridge could perform the role if necessary. However, it’s not his preferred place, and he may be called upon to lead the line most days. Firmino could be another that could fill in. However, my pick would be someone already on our books but not currently with the team: Markovic. He shares many qualities with Reus and is arguably further in his development at the same point in his career. If Klopp can reintegrate him and get the best out of him, we could have a real gem on our hands.
- ST: Sturridge and Benteke are the obvious two for this position, and with Origi, Ings, and possibily Balotelli (he is only on loan) behind them, I can’t see this as an area of real need.

To summarize,we wouldn’t necessarily need to much in terms of new players. The squad is there. It’s merely a matter of getting the best out of them. That said, new managers always bring in players. So expect a few incomings in the January window.
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Post by Unique Tue Oct 06, 2015 12:57 am

donttreadonred wrote:Changes…

Well, that’s a pretty broad term, isn’t it. So, let’s break it down into a few categories: staff, tactics, and players.

Staff:
My guess is that Sean O’Dricoll and Gary McAllister are both gone. It’s a bit unfortunate for them that they were caught up in Rodgers last-ditch efforts at redemption. However, that’s the way of the footballing world. I would guess that Klopp would bring in a couple of his back staff (rumored that includes Buvac and Krawietz) to join him on the bench. I sincerely hope that Pep Lijnders is allowed to stay on, and I think it’s likely given that his promotion always seemed more of a long-term appointment (and an organizational decision) than the other two.

Tactics:
As it’s already been said, the back-three is gone. Admittedly, I’ve oscillated wildly on my opinions of the back3’s implementation. It’s a perfectly valid formation/approach given the right circumstance, opposition, and personnel. My problem with Rodgers implementation of the system is that once we often used it in the wrong circumstance, against any opposition, and with the wrong personnel.

Klopp will almost certainly use a 4-2-3-1. He tends to favor two attacking fullbacks, a DLP, a DM, 2 creative CAMs (sometimes 1 CAM and one grafting winger/midfielder), a versatile wide-forward/CF, and a versatile #9. During his time at Dortmund, I didn’t have the opportunity to watch the Bundesliga as easily. Therefore, I don’t claim to have an intricate knowledge of his tactics. However, I can tell you that this basic setup is what was used every time I’ve seen him run out a team, and I expect it to be our “default” for the foreseeable future.  

Players:
Let’s take it from the tactics section, shall we:
- Goalkeeper: Weidenfeller is a considerably more vocal keeper than Mignolet. This could be an area that Klopp looks to improve upon in the next few windows. However, I doubt it will be an area of need in the immediate future. Mignolet will at the very least get the rest of the season to prove himself. After that, all bets are off.
- CBs: Sakho should be an automatic starter. Beyond that, it’s an interesting situation. I think Skrtel will likely retain his spot in the immediate future, with a replacement at RCB likely to come in during the January or Summer window (personally hoping for Nkoulou from Marseille). Lovren is likely not going to see much time in the side. Gomez will be groomed as an up-and-coming CB, but his partner is a question mark. I would love to see Ilori come back into the squad under Klopp, as he might be a perfect partner for Gomez.
- Two attacking fullbacks: Check (Moreno + Clyne). Their backups, however, are in question…
- One DM and one DLP: This is an area where Klopp’s tactics could bend a bit. At Dortmund, he would often run out the Bender twin and Gundogan/Sahin: a very clear cut DM & DLP combination. However, there is no equivalent for either at LFC. What we’re likely to see (when healthy) is a combination of Emre Can and Jordan Henderson in the Midfield roles. While neither are as good as Bender/Gundogan in their individual roles, as a combined unit, I believe they could perform the same combined role or shielding and distributing. The most important thing here is that I doubt we see Milner playing in midfield, barring emergency situations.
- 2 CAMs: Firmino and Coutinho easily lock up the roles that Goetze, Mkhitaryan, and Kagawa would have filled in some of Klopp’s sides.
  - Alternatively, Milner would fill the role of the grafting winger/CM, when needed.
- WF/CF: This is a fun one, as we don’t have someone with the squad that seems a natural fit in this role. Sturridge could perform the role if necessary. However, it’s not his preferred place, and he may be called upon to lead the line most days. Firmino could be another that could fill in. However, my pick would be someone already on our books but not currently with the team: Markovic. He shares many qualities with Reus and is arguably further in his development at the same point in his career. If Klopp can reintegrate him and get the best out of him, we could have a real gem on our hands.
- ST: Sturridge and Benteke are the obvious two for this position, and with Origi, Ings, and possibily Balotelli (he is only on loan) behind them, I can’t see this as an area of real need.

To summarize,we wouldn’t necessarily need to much in terms of new players. The squad is there. It’s merely a matter of getting the best out of them. That said, new managers always bring in players. So expect a few incomings in the January window.
imo markovic is a waste of time. space and money. the guy has no back bone for the prem lge. he drops his head far to easy. he will never make it at Liverpool or in England imo. he has a weak personality.
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Post by McAgger Tue Oct 06, 2015 1:29 am

Yeah mentality is definitely an issue with Markovic but I like to think Rodgers was to blame for that playing a 20 year old out of position like he did.

One of my main hopes is that we get Ilori and Gomez to partner Sakho and the 3 of them become the tandem in our backbone at CB fighting for the 2 spots for the forseeable future. I rate Ilori and Sakho very highly and Gomez has shown great stuff for a 18 year old. Best thing about both Gomez and Ilori are that they are equally as comfortable at RCB as they are at LCB.
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Post by iftikhar Tue Oct 06, 2015 6:13 am

Great post donttreadonred Thumbs up

donttreadonred wrote:Staff:

I would much prefer keeping Sean O’Dricoll and Gary McAllister on interim basis alongside Buvac and Krawietz. This wholesale change often makes the transition difficult. I think Sean and Gary can be ideal liaison between the new manager, his assistants and the team and other staff.

donttreadonred wrote:Tactics

I have no idea how the new manager usually plays. But if it's Klopp and if he prefers 4231, then he has to improvise and may even has to adopt new tactics altogether. Our squad is simply not equipped for 4231.

donttreadonred wrote:Players

GK: Mignolet will stay for the season and unless he messes up, I see him continuing into the future as well.

WB: Moreno and Clyne will pick themselves and if Moreno can improve further or at least so some consistency, the pair has long-term future. I expect Enrique to get some games. If he performs well coupled with the probable return of Flanagan, we might not venture into the transfer market in winter.

CB: I also expect Sakho to pick himself and Skartel to partner him initially. But I do expect to see Joe for some games. In my dream, I see Joe-Sakho as the partnership for next season with Ilori and Skrtel as backups.

DM: Lucas can do the job for the time being while Emre and Rossiter, depending on their respective development and adaptation, can be the future/long-term options. But I do believe Klopp, if it's really him, will buy someone in Summer.

DLP: This is a position where we are absolutely zero. While Henderson, Milner and Emre can provide attacking options while playing deep, none is a DLP but rather B2B midfielders. Correct me if I'm wrong, but Klopp would be looking for a Alonso type player, right???

CAM: I guess Coutinho will pick himself for the 'Pure CAM' position while Firmino, Lallana and Milner will alternate for the "grafting winger/midfielder". However, I don't see any need for buying if the mentioned players performs consistently.

WF/Winger: Much depends on the development of Markovic, Origi and Ibe. For the time being, I see Sturridge, Lallana and Ings filling this role. Might be another area where we spend next Summer.

#9: Another position where we are seemingly full, both in terms of numbers, quality and varieties.
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Post by Kick Tue Oct 06, 2015 8:01 am

Sven Bender was never a DM, he was and is a B2B CM.

I also disagree that if Klopp joins he will try to fit Liverpool players into his Dortmund system.

It's more likely he will adjust his old system to fit Liverpool.

I'd imagine something like:

Mignolet
Clyne Skrtel Sakho Moreno
Lucas/Can/Milner Henderson
Milner/Ibe/Lallana Coutinho Firmino
Sturridge/Benteke
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Post by iftikhar Tue Oct 06, 2015 9:34 am

Kick wrote:Sven Bender was never a DM, he was and is a B2B CM.

I also disagree that if Klopp joins he will try to fit Liverpool players into his Dortmund system.

It's more likely he will adjust his old system to fit Liverpool.

I'd imagine something like:

Mignolet
Clyne Skrtel Sakho Moreno
Lucas/Can/Milner Henderson
Milner/Ibe/Lallana Coutinho Firmino
Sturridge/Benteke
How does Ancelotti play??? Just covering my bases Wink .
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Post by Kick Tue Oct 06, 2015 10:01 am

iftikhar wrote:
Kick wrote:Sven Bender was never a DM, he was and is a B2B CM.

I also disagree that if Klopp joins he will try to fit Liverpool players into his Dortmund system.

It's more likely he will adjust his old system to fit Liverpool.

I'd imagine something like:

Mignolet
Clyne Skrtel Sakho Moreno
Lucas/Can/Milner Henderson
Milner/Ibe/Lallana Coutinho Firmino
Sturridge/Benteke
How does Ancelotti play??? Just covering my bases Wink .


He changes a bit more, often a 4-3-3, though.
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Post by Helmer Tue Oct 06, 2015 1:45 pm

everything will be hyped up and in the end we will realise that it is not so dreamy as we had imagined !

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Post by Art Morte Tue Oct 06, 2015 2:04 pm

Helmer wrote:everything will be hyped up and in the end we will realise that it is not so dreamy as we had imagined !


Tbh I'm OK with it if we don't finish in the top-4 this season. What I want to see is a manager who looks like he knows what he's doing. Someone who instructs the players to play with more urgency in attack when we're struggling to create chances. Someone whose idea of a tactical switches isn't just trying different formations with the same non-existent game plans. Someone who knows how to get the best out of players instead of making them perform below their pre-Liverpool level. Rodgers failed at all that and there was no sense of progress for ages.

I just want to see a manager who at least looks like he knows what he's doing. Rodgers really didn't. If we get that in Klopp, I'm OK if we don't reach top-4 this season yet. Next season that should be the absolute target, though.
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Post by Sri Tue Oct 06, 2015 2:05 pm

Helmer wrote:everything will be hyped up and in the end we will realise that it is not so dreamy as we had imagined !


You are becoming as optimistic as me Proud

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Post by Lucifer Tue Oct 06, 2015 2:16 pm

All this fairytale imagination is dangerous imo nothings going to change overnight. Who know some further bad results and there is Klopp out thread on GL. Let's give time fellas

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Post by Sri Tue Oct 06, 2015 2:27 pm

Vast differences in behind-the-scenes environment and club setups, between BVB and FSG owned Liverpool.

It is naive to expect the same results. That said, it can't possibly be worse than Brenda, can it ? :coffee:

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Post by Helmer Tue Oct 06, 2015 2:43 pm

srigooner wrote:
Helmer wrote:everything will be hyped up and in the end we will realise that it is not so dreamy as we had imagined !


You are becoming as optimistic as me Proud

No not really, you yourself answered that in the next post !

srigooner wrote:Vast differences in behind-the-scenes environment and club setups, between BVB and FSG owned Liverpool.

It is naive to expect the same results. That said, it can't possibly be worse than Brenda, can it ? :coffee:

that is one outright positive I see right now. Plus his experience and the performance of Dortmund under him. Apart from that I am excited but not expecting anything more than a strong challenge for top 4 and at least 5th finish. 4th would be a successful season for us if we manage to do it.

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Post by Hapless_Hans Tue Oct 06, 2015 2:55 pm

srigooner wrote:Vast differences in behind-the-scenes environment and club setups, between BVB and FSG owned Liverpool.

It is naive to expect the same results. That said, it can't possibly be worse than Brenda, can it ? :coffee:


BVB was in terrible shape when Klopp took over. It's easy to forget this but it's no comparison to present day Liverpool.

For Liverpool fans, the only thing to do now is to be 100% happy. No other emotion necessary. You get the best possible manager you could get. No ifs and buts. 100% happiness.

Allow yourselves to be happy, god is smiling at you, you miserable bastards.
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Post by Helmer Tue Oct 06, 2015 3:09 pm

Hapless_Hans wrote:
srigooner wrote:Vast differences in behind-the-scenes environment and club setups, between BVB and FSG owned Liverpool.

It is naive to expect the same results. That said, it can't possibly be worse than Brenda, can it ? :coffee:


BVB was in terrible shape when Klopp took over. It's easy to forget this but it's no comparison to present day Liverpool.

For Liverpool fans, the only thing to do now is to be 100% happy. No other emotion necessary. You get the best possible manager you could get. No ifs and buts. 100% happiness.

Allow yourselves to be happy, god is smiling at you, you miserable bastards.

that is where I will stop myself. Happy but not ecstatic

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Post by Sri Tue Oct 06, 2015 3:16 pm

The challenges faced off-the-pitch are only of a different nature. He didn't have football-novices in the boardroom (FSG) or a very (in)competent transfer committee at BVB.

I don't find the situations comparable.

However, he is a very competent manager, a charismatic individual and Liverpool are endowed with much better resources at their disposal. These are all indubitably favourable factors in the big picture.

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Post by iftikhar Tue Oct 06, 2015 5:43 pm

Nothing can and will change overnight. But we are still in four competitions, have a very decent squad and could be soon blessed with a very competent manager. All in all, there's every reason to be optimistic.

And no matter how ecstatic we are or elated we appear, we are realistic and have realistic goals. But you simply can't express joy in a realistic manner, that's unrealistic.
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Post by donttreadonred Tue Oct 06, 2015 7:58 pm

I'm not nearly as pessimistic about Markovic's future as some on this forum. I thought he had several good performances last season despite his obvious misuse, and his talent is undeniable. As for his attitude, I obviously can't attest to that. however, I would say that it would be easy for anyone to become disillusioned when being played sporadically, out of position, and being made a scapegoat more often than not.

It should be obvious that Klopp will adapt his approach for each new situation he moves into. No elite manager has one single approach to every match and every job. However, we can extrapolate gross generalities from his previous seasons at Dortmund, which was my intent in my previous post. He will likely setup in a similar fashion (roughly 4-2-3-1), but with a twist to suit his Liverpool squad. What will be more interesting to see is the direction after Klopp has had two-three transfer windows to put his mark on this squad.

As for the positional battles:
- GK: I have a hard time seeing Mignolet as a Klopp-style keeper. If he sorts himself out and takes his chance, he amy well stay. My gut feeling just says that he wont… purely my opinion. Kudos to him if he proves me wrong.
- DM: Perhaps the term was somewhat misleading. Klopp doesn’t necessarily use a “DM” in the sense of a deep-sitting controller, ala Busquets and Makelele. However, he has used (wuite frequently) a physical, sudo-destroyer type midfielder. I don’t mean to slag off Bender by using those loaded terms. However, I would say that the roles were far more specialized in his Dortmund sides than we will be capable of replicating at Liverpool (at least in the immediate future.
- Sturridge, Benteke, and Ings: The use of these three players will be interesting to see. My personal opinion is that Sturridge is the obvious choice for the #9 position. He’s more mobile, has better vision, and can finish as well as anyone in England. However, reports that Klopp fancied Benteke while at Dortmund might suggest that our (elder) Belgian isn’t necessarily Klopp’s Andy Carroll. Perhaps shouts for Benteke at the #9 and Sturridge in the “Reus” role aren’t too far off base. Then, of course, Danny Ings has only come in and scored several important goals in recent weeks and must be considered the “in-form” striker. How does he fit into Klopp’s vision? Only time will truly tell.

Please don’t confuse my excitement for naïveté. I fully understand that things will not change immediately. That said, I wouldn’t rule out anything for this season. The league is not particularly strong, and there are no standout performers. Arsenal and City are the closest thing to powerhouses at the moment, and both have shown their faults in the relatively small sampling of fixtures to date.

The thing that Klopp brings is “hope” and experience setting up a sustainable structure at a club. Despite all of our issues, Liverpool are much further along than Dortmund when he took over. Assuming he is given the tools and purview to affect changes, he should have every chance of replicating Dortmund’s success in time and possibly exceeding it. Here’s hoping that comes to pass.
donttreadonred
donttreadonred
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