Pep at Bayern 2015 - two seasons in.

Just a thread to unite the stuff discussed in diverse other threads.

To kick it off, an item worth reading in full.

http://www.espnfc.com/club/bayern-munich/132/blog/post/2444505/pep-guardiola-retains-bayern-munich-faith-raf-honigstein

Modern football is drenched in nostalgia but it has no memory. None of the TV pundits, journalists and social media commentators who eulogise Heynckes' "more direct" side that won the treble in 2013 seem to recall that team passing Juventus to death, Barcelona-style, in the quarterfinal of the same year or Bayern choking on their own possession stats in the final "at home" vs. Chelsea 12 months earlier. You won't hear of the discontent that was prevalent within the club at the time either.

It doesn't fit with the current story of Pep Guardiola destroying Heynckes' treble winners, so it can't have happened. What also hasn't happened, because it can't have happened, was Bayern beating sides like Roma (7-1), Porto (6-1), Man City (3-1) and Shakhtar Donetsk (7-0) under Guardiola, playing attacking football of a quality and refinement that had never been seen in Munich in the modern era.

There's a lot of people who won't like that

One thing is clear though, Bayern need to get younger and better in attacking areas. Regardless of the manager.

That's the thing I was telling Viva numerous times. If Pep had been our coach in the Chelsea final, lord have mercy on us all

we would have never heard the end of the missing 'plan B' lol.

Guardiola has done all right at Bayern. It's not easy to take over a team that has just won everything in spectacular style and maintain that peak.

The team Guardiola inherited was so good that Bayern were always going to win these last two Bundesliga titles even if Martin Jol was the manager. The real challenge for Guardiola kicks off now: Can he get Pay'em Munich on the rise again? Domestically increase the distance to the rest again and catch up and surpass the big European rivals (i.e. win the CL).

No he's been shit. And to that quote, while those are nice wins, I don't know why the 3-1 against City is included, since I think that's a pretty "normal" result, while Heynckes' Bayern beat Barcelona 4-0 and 0-3, as well as actually winning the pot.

Passing past Juve? Yes, but with much more willingness to lose the ball if it meant getting a shot at goal. Also that was the smart thing to do and a tactical decision. Against Barcelona they didn't pass past them, they fought through them. They reacted appropriately to the different midfields they faced, and the challenges that brought with it.

Now they just try to hog possession in every game. Even now, 0-3 down against Barcelona, Peps response in the press conference was insisting on his team needing lots of possession.
I'm not saying possession is the exact wrong strategy, but he should focus on tons of things, and that he harps on about possession, again, shows me what an utterly mono-thematic tit he is.

Viva you always seem to always go back to that Barcelona tie. For all he praise bayern got you do realise hat barca hadn't had a proper training session for like 2 months prior to that tie and Madrid reserves battered them 3-1? Had Barcelona been fit and had a fully firing Messi I doubt that toe would have gone anything like that. they facedetection a Barcelona in as bad a patch as they were under Rijkaard so last few months, maybe even worse. Stop going on about it. In the final dante should have been sent off, where would Juups masterclass have been then? I suppose we should also forget them dominating arsenal in the Allianz arena...or the dominating performances they had against bvb in the 4 times they met that season, or how about the pokal qf where they were passing back am forth doing nothing with the ball and had to be bailed out by Robben? I suppose his masterclass was shown when BVB smashed bayern 5-2.

You just have irrational hate for Pep. When all the players are fully fit and firing they played better football than anything Juups side ever produced. add to the fact that Juups side had hungtier players and there was also a lack of arrogance around the club. I suppose reaching a semis in the hardest tournament in club football is a failure.

Oh, I just mentioned the Barca tie because the quoted article mentioned it, and the recent high wins. I know Barcelona was nowhere near full strength, my bigger point would be that they used to adapt their play style to the circumstances, while Pep adjusts his tactical outlines mostly to further the ever-same goal: possession, and when they got it, his teams don't seem to know how to do anything with it despite pass to the best individualist in the team. Bayern have gotten worse in chance creation and started relying more on Robben, and Ribéry, which is nice, until they're injured. At least Jupps Bayern had working team play in the final third.

Current Bayern only know how to keep the ball, they've forgotten what to do with it. Pep isn't overall a shit coach of course, there's lots of things Bayern do well, even under him, it's just that they've gotten more one-dimensional.
And dear god, subbing off Müller? The humanity!

according to peptards :

he's blameless in both CL humiliations .
he should get credit for Germany's world cup win .

what's your view then, farfan, since I take it you do not agree with those 'peptards' whoever they are.

Hapless_Hans wrote:what's your view then, farfan, since I take it you do not agree with those 'peptards' whoever they are.

i think that  he inherited a perfect team that should be able  to win the league on auto pilot  in a fairly non competitive league .
i also think that he failed miserably in Europe and wasn't able  to duplicate the success of his predecessor . he got completely outsmarted by Ancelotti last year and got rekt by barça this year .
incidentally , the two teams that jupp heynckes eliminated on route to two consecutive CL finals .
basically , i'm not impressed .  Pep is doing the bare minimum that any half descent  coach  would be able to do with this team .

farfan wrote:

Hapless_Hans wrote:what's your view then, farfan, since I take it you do not agree with those 'peptards' whoever they are.

i think that  he inherited a perfect team that should be able  to win the league on auto pilot  in a fairly non competitive league .
i also think that he failed miserably in Europe and wasn't able  to duplicate the success of his predecessor . he got completely outsmarted by Ancelotti last year and got rekt by barça this year .
incidentally , the two teams that jupp heynckes eliminated on route to two consecutive CL finals .
basically , i'm not impressed .  Pep is doing the bare minimum that any half descent  coach  would be able to do with this team .

So Juup wasnt half decent the season before when they got a losers treble? Interdasting

jibers wrote:

farfan wrote:

Hapless_Hans wrote:what's your view then, farfan, since I take it you do not agree with those 'peptards' whoever they are.

i think that  he inherited a perfect team that should be able  to win the league on auto pilot  in a fairly non competitive league .
i also think that he failed miserably in Europe and wasn't able  to duplicate the success of his predecessor . he got completely outsmarted by Ancelotti last year and got rekt by barça this year .
incidentally , the two teams that jupp heynckes eliminated on route to two consecutive CL finals .
basically , i'm not impressed .  Pep is doing the bare minimum that any half descent  coach  would be able to do with this team .

So Juup wasnt half decent the season before when they got a losers treble? Interdasting

yeah ,because apparently the circumstances were exactly the same .

Jupp reached the final with freaking Gomez upfront and was up against prime Dortmund in the league .
not to mention that he took over a disorganized team that won jack squat the previous season and suffered a humiliating early exit in the CL .
Pep took over a treble winning team that kept all its stars and signed the best player from their main rival .

no matter how you slice it , Pep under performed.

Domestic double and Cl semis, 'underperformed' lol

you couldn't make it up

Bayern only signed Guardiola who offered a significant name and what seemed like the most comfortable way to dominate European football. If they only wanted to win the Bundesliga, they could have easily hired a second-rate coach.

As far as I am concerned, Guardiola is a failure at Bayern unless he wins the Champions League, or he does something utterly remarkable that I can't think of. Those are extremely high expectations, but Guardiola is an extremely good coach.

And I disagree with the assertion that Guardiola has no plan-B and that he cannot adapt to the opposition. Since he has joined Bayern, they have played a variety of different ways - one of the most notable being when they used Javi Martínez as a target man against Dortmund (?).

I can't stress enough how important Ribéry and Robben are to Bayern and how big of a downgrade Götze and the rest are. In my opinion, that's the biggest reason why Bayern were so poor against Barça (not to mention Alaba missing). Last season's disgrace against Real Madrid is something you can fully blame on Guardiola. It was a shocking result, especially at the Allianz Arena.

It would be more understandable if Bayern were losing against Real Madrid and Barcelona by close scores. But 5-0 and 3-0? Unacceptable.

Hapless_Hans wrote:Domestic double and Cl semis, 'underperformed' lol

you couldn't make it up

i'm pretty sure the Bayern brass had two consecutive semi final  humiliations in mind when they signed the best coach in europe .

it might not be fair ,but when you come with an exorbitant salary ,a reputation as the best coach in a europe  , and as a replacement of a recently fired champions league winning coach, there are extremely high expectations.

farfan wrote:

Hapless_Hans wrote:Domestic double and Cl semis, 'underperformed' lol

you couldn't make it up

i'm pretty sure the Bayern brass had two consecutive semi final  humiliations in mind when they signed the best coach in europe .

it might not be fair ,but when you come with an exorbitant salary ,a reputation as the best coach in a europe  , and as a replacement of a recently fired champions league winning coach, there are extremely high exceptions.

Fired? Juup wasn't fired. At least get your facts right. He refused to commit because everyone and the players doubted him after that losers treble so he wasn't renewing. Bayern hired Pep as his replacement in December that year! Fired

The myth that trebe season has brought about is unreal.

jibers wrote:

farfan wrote:

Hapless_Hans wrote:Domestic double and Cl semis, 'underperformed' lol

you couldn't make it up

i'm pretty sure the Bayern brass had two consecutive semi final  humiliations in mind when they signed the best coach in europe .

it might not be fair ,but when you come with an exorbitant salary ,a reputation as the best coach in a europe  , and as a replacement of a recently fired champions league winning coach, there are extremely high exceptions.

Fired? Juup wasn't fired. At least get your facts right. He refused to commit because everyone and the players doubted him after that losers treble so he wasn't renewing. Bayern hired Pep as his replacement in December that year! Fired

The myth that trebe season has brought about is unreal.

jesus christ 'im just overly dramatizing the situation for Pep .
couldn't you let that one slide ffs ?

farfan wrote:

jibers wrote:

farfan wrote:


i'm pretty sure the Bayern brass had two consecutive semi final  humiliations in mind when they signed the best coach in europe .

it might not be fair ,but when you come with an exorbitant salary ,a reputation as the best coach in a europe  , and as a replacement of a recently fired champions league winning coach, there are extremely high exceptions.

Fired? Juup wasn't fired. At least get your facts right. He refused to commit because everyone and the players doubted him after that losers treble so he wasn't renewing. Bayern hired Pep as his replacement in December that year! Fired

The myth that trebe season has brought about is unreal.

jesus christ 'im just overly dramatizing the situation for Pep .
couldn't you let that one slide ffs ?

There's no justifying his appointment or the job he's done.

Muppet wrote:There's no justifying his appointment or the job he's done.

So who should they have appointed then?

They didn't have to appoint anyone.

Yep jibers. Jupp's contract ended, and Pep was available.

It's a no brainer, really.

Also apparently, if a team wins a treble they win the treble next season too.
That's what always happens right?
Everything short of that is a failure and an embarrassment for the coach..

Hapless_Hans wrote:Yep jibers. Jupp's contract ended, and Pep was available.

It's a no brainer, really.

Also apparently, if a team wins a treble they win the treble next season too.
That's what always happens right?
Everything short of that is a failure and an embarrassment for the coach..

how about not getting absolutely destroyed in the semis at home ? that would've been more acceptable .

farfan wrote:

Hapless_Hans wrote:Yep jibers. Jupp's contract ended, and Pep was available.

It's a no brainer, really.

Also apparently, if a team wins a treble they win the treble next season too.
That's what always happens right?
Everything short of that is a failure and an embarrassment for the coach..

how about not getting absolutely destroyed in the semis at home ? that would've been more acceptable .

The apologetics aren't interested in reality.