Re: [BOOKS] Game of Thrones for the Literate

by M99 Sun 21 Jun 2015, 21:09

BarrileteCosmico wrote:m99 will love this:

https://imgur.com/gallery/t8NHg

Lol it is very exaggerated but the gist of it is right. Too many good plotlines were replaced by terrible ones.

Urban remember how you said Brienne will not kill Stannis since she said she would, just like Oberyn, Robb etc? Well I did not want to say it in the show thread since some people start crying when show only changes are called out so I'll say it now. GRRM wrote Oberyn and Robb's parts while Sansa's promise to kill Stannis in the snow with Pod was a show exclusive. As soon as I saw that scene I knew Brienne was killing Stannis just like I knew Olly would Ygritte when he ran to Castle Black and proclaimed himself the best archer of the village. They made it even more obvious by cutting to his face 100 times during the battle and him eyeing a bow. Show only people figured that out too just like they knew Myrcella was dying when she had that heartwarming moment with Jaime. D&D uses some predictable cliches when they are not directly adapting GRRM's work.

by urbaNRoots Sun 21 Jun 2015, 21:24

Yeah I was completely wrong lol not only at that but my prediction for what Stannis' future holds... he was killed off the next week after my post Laughing

Like the dude on reddit who made that Dorne theory, I was trying to make sense of it all. Unfortunately they botched the one thing they HAD to do right for me.

by Dante Sun 21 Jun 2015, 21:27

So show!Stannis ... we should consider him dead then?

But does it make sense . Why didn't they show us the killing scene then, in this particular show of all? i am all for , "if you don't see the corpse , no confirmation whatsoever" .

Or what about Weiss talking about the importance of ambiguity in death scenes? They went in great lengths to show how Ned was really dead . Taking this as an example , well Stannis' was meant to be questionable for sure , certainly didn't bother with clarity at all here. You can't really say he is dead , just by D&D words . Of course they will say he's dead , why would they spoil their own show ?

I really see no good argument why they shot that scene in particular in the way they did , without showing us how he supposedly died . I call bollocks really , Brienne even seemed hesitant for a mere moment , especially after she pronounced Renly rightfull king .

I am pretty sure she didn't kill him actually , but was stopped by the brotherhood without banners , which btw is returning in the show aren't they ?

by urbaNRoots Sun 21 Jun 2015, 21:40

This is what David Nutter had to say about the Stannis scene:

I think there was a real sense of inevitability toward what was going to happen, and I think anything beyond that would have been somewhat gratuitous. I know for us to say that about “Game of Thrones,” that’s an interesting way to put it, but you could really get a sense that Stannis knew that his time had come, and there was nothing else really to say, nothing else really to do. I always believe that editing is the kind of thing where you want to cut into a scene a little bit after it starts and get out before it ends. This is exactly what we did in this sequence, and I thought it worked perfectly.

And I believe him. One of the two storylines between the Boltons/Baratheons had to go and make space for the new storyline in the Reach and they decided for the Baratheons, they're all gone. Davos/Melisandre join other storylines and so do the Dornish I expect to make space for Bran and Riverlands.

by Dante Sun 21 Jun 2015, 21:56

hmm let's see then . This kinda clears a few things up , but i still find it absolutely lame to send off Stannis like that

but i guess they alreadyt rekt his character and arc so much , that would be a likely scenario indeed.

I thing in 5 seasons now , the most this show has messed up with was Stannis and how they handled him and his story . I wouldn't say they failed anywhere else near as much , if that's true and he indeed died there .

anyhow , i guess we will know 100% next season , but i am almost convinced now he's very likely dead .

by zigra Sun 21 Jun 2015, 22:27

You can always join team denial Proud

by Dante Sun 21 Jun 2015, 23:42

it's certainly tempting Proud

by M99 Sun 21 Jun 2015, 23:48

A tinfoil theory I came up with a posted elsewhere a few months back. You guys can read it if you want.

Spoiler:

by zigra Mon 22 Jun 2015, 00:08

But Aegon is a true Targ.

One of the things I agree with you is that there's more to Varys than just the old "restoring the targs as kings". Aegon could well be fake. Though it would make cutting him from the show even stranger hmm

To be fair I think your theory could well be true. Imo Aegon being a targ or blackfyre is almost 50-50. Can see both happening.
Just hope they get all eradicated #teamcercei Molenation

by RealGunner Mon 22 Jun 2015, 00:09

teamcersei will get in the way if Cleganebowl happens though Sad

by urbaNRoots Mon 22 Jun 2015, 00:09

It's certainly plausible that before Aegon was born they tried to put Serra/Illyrio in the throne but they must have known that a Blackfyre can never gain enough support for the Throne, but a Blackfyre disguised as a Targaryen and Rhaegar's son himself... now that's going to make people jump ship. It would certainly add depth to the whole plan.

by Dante Mon 22 Jun 2015, 00:47

M99 wrote:A tinfoil theory I came up with a posted elsewhere a few months back. You guys can read it if you want.

Spoiler:

enjoyed reading it but you know i think Aegon is legit eco smile

but it does makes sense as a theory , despite what i think about Aegon.

Some thoughts .

Something which you said about Rhaegar being out of character. If he would remove his father from the Throne that is.

Well , we actually know Rhaegar kinda confirmed this to Jaime , don't we? he said

Rhaegar wrote:When the battle’s done I mean to call a council. Changes will be made. I meant to do it long ago, but ... well, it does no good to speak of roads not taken. We shall talk when I return.

As you can see , Rhaegar had his plans about the Iron Throne . From what we know about Rhaegar , he would certainly not be ok with his father's paranoia and actions , even though he would never usurp him straight away. Obviously for whatever reasons he didn't , but he openly admits he planned stuff that people shouldn't really know , but had to be done anyway.

I've said this before actually , one of the arguments one could make about Varys telling Aerys not to open the gates , would be because he obviously knew Rhaegar would take over once he returned from the Trident and he simply wanted the Targaryens to remain on the throne in order for this to happen . It's quite possible had Rhaegar survived the fight and returned to King's Landing , the war would be over , whether they had won or lost that battle ; surely with great losses for the royalists and certainly not without consequences and costly compromises , but Rhaegar would have brought peace to the 7 Kingdoms and would have actually been the perfect King , to the point our story would never have happened anyway Laughing

.

Would also explain why he saved Aegon really ; if he believed Rhaegar to be da best king evah , i can see why he would groom his son , his heir , to be that man in the place of his father and why he would be able to gather support around him , exactly because he would be Rhaegar's heir. Don't think people just rise for the throne because of qualities and traits , you need legitimacy and the name , and as far as the story is concerned , Aegon has it all .(obviously he could be fake , just saying as far as Westeros knows , all the credentials are there , at least so far)

And i think Varys did all that because he descends from some Targaryen line , don't remember the names now but yeah. He could come from Blackfyres , or those Targaryens who left for Essos years ago. I couldn't say , but it can easily work both ways , so i leave it at that . Good read tho , ty for posting it here.

by RealGunner Mon 22 Jun 2015, 04:39

https://i.imgur.com/tcNf5a6.png

by silver Mon 22 Jun 2015, 12:33

Wait, what! Aegon Targaryen is still alive?!?!?

WHY ISN'T THIS IN THE TV SHOW!

by RealGunner Mon 22 Jun 2015, 22:46

They wanted to finish it in 8 seasons so a lot of stuff got cut off

Unfortunately, the good stuff

by M99 Tue 23 Jun 2015, 00:17

GRRM:" There is this one character who is doomed since I introduced him/her, but I didn't how he/she is going to die. Since yesterday I know what to do."

by RealGunner Tue 23 Jun 2015, 00:46

what is this GRRM

doesn't sound like a character from book 1-3

by Dante Tue 23 Jun 2015, 16:00

M99 wrote:GRRM:" There is this one character who is doomed since I introduced him/her, but I didn't how he/she is going to die. Since yesterday I know what to do."

hmmm

Aeron - Jorah - Brienne - Podric - Missandei

would be my picks , in no specific order.

by free_cat Tue 23 Jun 2015, 16:59

Any news on when is winds of winter coming out?

by urbaNRoots Tue 23 Jun 2015, 17:11

^When the sun rises in the west and sets in the east. When the seas go dry and mountains blow in the wind like leaves. Then he will release Winds of Winter, and not before.

by M99 Tue 23 Jun 2015, 17:12

free_cat wrote:Any news on when is winds of winter coming out?

GRRM said he is determined to finish it before season 6 so first half of 2016 is a safe bet. Then again this is the man who promised to release A Dance With Dragons a year after A Feast For Crows Laughing

by Dante Tue 23 Jun 2015, 17:20

oh if only . Something tells me though if there was anything , you would know about it already , people would go mad Laughing

there will be a massive hypestorm the day we find out , but so far there's precious little information.

Other than that , there are people who expect the next book to come out when S6 begins , but that's mostly speculation . IIRC , GRRM did say he's working heavily on it and he has said in the past there are no massive issues or rewritting for Winds. And honestly , he brings up TWOW a lot in his blog for quite some time now. But there's no indication whatsoever.

Nobody really knows how far into the book he is , what we know for certain is that he has actually been working heavily on it since last summer , at least going by his words , he focused a lot more into finishing it. And everything points out that he continued on that path.

Other than that . It's not really out of this world we may see Winds by the time S6 airs , would be 5 years since ADWD . I'd say it's right about fkn time. Ever since he said he won't be writting an episode for GOT S5 and that he would work harder to finish Winds , he actually talks a lot more of TWOW than he ever did before , all positive signs.

@ Urban lol

by M99 Tue 23 Jun 2015, 17:23

Imo there are only two truly internet breaking events left. One is when the Half Life 3 reveal trailer is released and the other is when GRRM announces on his notablog that he has finished writing The Winds Of Winter.

by Dante Tue 23 Jun 2015, 18:00

M99 wrote:Imo there are only two truly internet breaking events left. One is when the Half Life 3 reveal trailer is released and the other is when GRRM announces on his notablog that he has finished writing The Winds Of Winter.

Agreed . It will be too much.

shame i probably won't be playing video games in my 60s though . Oh well, at least TWOW will be around by then . I just hope i don't have Alzheimer by the time ADOS gets out hmm

by urbaNRoots Tue 23 Jun 2015, 18:10

If it ever comes out, it would be cool if we could discuss/analyse chapter by chapter.

But that's something we'll talk about once we have a release date Laughing

by RealGunner Tue 23 Jun 2015, 22:56

Depends on that Urban

If the book comes out like 2 weeks before S6 then I am smashing it in a week.

But if the book comes out like 2 months before then we can sort out something like that.

My best guess is that TWOW is out by March 2016

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