[BOOKS] Game of Thrones for the Literate

A Storm Of Swords is better than all Malazan books. There I said it.

I haven't read ASOS, and i'm still at MT, but you rate it higher than Deadhouse Gates and Memories of Ice?

Yes.

dostoevsky wrote:ES read the damn books or I'll ban you.

Dostoevsky

btw guys , i want to post this theory of mine about Rhaegar and the three heads of the dragon and especially something in the HOTU that still troubles me deeply... i want someone to read it all and tell me what they think , i can't discuss this with any of my friends either , POS don't read the books and won't get it even if i explain anyway

I've posted some of my thoughts on the previous books threads about it , but it was just a mess then , this time i had some time to analyse it and construct it better , i think it makes an interesting case but it will be long really.

I would appreciate it if Dost , BC , M99 , Zigra and all of the rest frequent contributors here read it at some point and tell me what they think , tbh i need to be told that either could be something there , or that's BS . It always bugs me when i remember it.

Ok , i will post the TL;DR first and if anyone wants to read it , i will post the rest of it .

Rhaegar is the Dragon of the Prophecy and the three Heads of the Dragon, are his three children .
Also , going by Rhaegar's own words about what exactly the Heads mean and as the HOTU strongly imply , Daenerys could very well be his child .

(also no bs Rhaegar+Rhaella=Daenerys , her mother isn't Rhaella)

I always enjoy reading your theories Dante, would love to have a look at the complete version when you have the time to post it.

Have you discussed parts of it before? It seems familiar.

I think I read your theory before Dante. 3 heads of dragons = Daenerys, Jon and Aegon. All three of them are Rhaegar's children. Dany by Ashara Dayne, Jon by Lyanna Stark and Aegon by Elia Martell.

It's a very interesting theory and not really tinfoli, it does make sense.

i posted something in the previous thread , but things were just popping in my head really

this time i sat down to actually look at the books and think on it , searched on the internet e.t.c

idk , it makes so much sense to me , the part in the HOTU especially.. It really bugs me a lot , but there are gaps in it after that. Will post it later , i am really eager to hear something about it , whether it is because there might be something it in or simply to debunk this for good

M99 wrote:I think I read your theory before Dante. 3 heads of dragons = Daenerys, Jon and Aegon. All three of them are Rhaegar's children. Dany by Ashara Dayne, Jon by Lyanna Stark and Aegon by Elia Martell.

It's a very interesting theory and not really tinfoli, it does make sense.

you remember it

this time i did construct it a lot better doe , but you got the point , so you at least don't need to waste your time again

it's this part in the Hotu ...

“I have come for the gift of truth,” Dany said. “In the long hall, the things I saw . . . were they true visions, or lies?
Past things, or things to come? What did they mean?”
. . . the shape of shadows . . . morrows not yet made . . . drink from the cup of ice . . . drink from the cup of fire . . .
. . . mother of dragons . . . child of three . . .
“Three?” She did not understand.
. . . three heads has the dragon . . .

just moments ago , Rhaegar says the same thing. And even in later books , Daenerys always thinks of Rhaegar , rarely gives a shit for Aerys. It's always Rhaegar for her. And how lame it is if she came for the gift of truth in this magical journey to listen she had 2 brothers?? no sense at all. It can't be straightforward and imho it isn't.

And the most weird part ; in the monomyth , it's the father figure/father that reveals some kind of great truth / give some mystical power to the hero , during the underworld.

And HOTU = Dany's underworld ; it all fit so well

Not only Daenerys gains her dragons back (the mystical strength) but she also learns of a greath truth /wisdom , though she doesn't get it . She learns the Dragon has three heads , it's what bugs her after escaping the HOTU and she still has thoughts about it as far as ADWD

and guess who first reveals this?? Rhaegar , who may or may have not been looking at her when saying it , in that vision with Elia

Rhaegar wrote:“Aegon,” he said to a woman nursing a newborn babe in a great wooden bed.
“What better name for a king?”
“Will you make a song for him?” the woman asked.
“He has a song,” the man replied. “He is the prince that was promised, and his is the song of ice and fire.” He looked up when he said it and his eyes met Dany’s, and it seemed as if he saw her standing there beyond the door. “There must be one more,” he said, though whether he was speaking to her or the woman in the bed she could not say.
“The dragon has three heads.”

-

It is generally accepted , that Rhaegar's "there must be one more" , refers to a child . It's also commonly believed that he talks about Jon here . Whilst it's not impossible , i think he had something else in mind . Let's take a look at the timing here , Aegon was just born , since they are discussing his name and all. At best he's half a month old or something , more likely this was one of his first days. So , by that time , Rhaegar wasn't even infatuated with Lyanna , he wasn't thinking about Jon or her .. maybe , it could be this he was thinking about :

"They murdered Rhaegar's daughter as well, the little princess. Rhaenys, she was named, like Aegon's sister. There was no Visenya, but he said the dragon has three heads." (Daenerys V, ACOK)

I think it's safe to assume Rhaegar expected his third child to be a daughter and would have named her Visenya , seeing how he named his children after The Conqueror and his sisters . Isn't it weird that he actually went on with this and if he did indeed expect his 3rd to be a daughter , how and why was he so certain?? What did he know..??

I think he knew his part in the prophecy . Not guessing , or going with it. KNEW .

Jon came out of nowhere and he was the result of his pure love for Lyanna . This leads me to believe Rhaegar had it wrong there , when he thought he had to replicate the old Three Heads ( Aegon the Conqueror and his sisters) with his children . But fate had other plans and i think the prophecy did fullfil itself knowing how the story goes , though not as Rhaegar had expected. And like with almost all prophecies , it almost always goes down different than expected , especially when someone is actively trying to force it. In this case , Rhaegar did .

Rhaenys died , but if i am right about this one , three children of his did survive and that's because he went out of his way with forcing the prophecy , which is why it got fullfiled.  

So , himself needs one more child , when he already has 2 . Right ? Since Rhaegar and Elia were talking about their newborn , Aegon .

He then clarifies why "there must be one more" with the following phrase , "The dragon has three heads" .
So what i am thinking is : Rhaegar believes he is the Dragon of this prophecy and the Heads are his children .
Why else he would specify / imply / follow up with "the dragon has three heads" after saying there must be one more?
The three heads are the Blood of the Dragon . Not necessarily (the) dragonriders , not just/or/and Targs .
Rhaegar's children are the Three Heads. The Blood(Descendants) of the Dragon(Rhaegar)  .
At the time he had 2 children , Rhaenys and Aegon . He says there must be one more . (Why?) Because = the Dragon has Three Heads. Why would he say there must be one more , implying he needs a 3rd child in particular , if he didn't believe he was that Dragon? He's not even being vague about it . He's quite straight forward , "I need that 3rd child" , because "the Dragon has three heads" .

And i think he is 100% , absolutely certain that himself is that Dragon , given how far he went to fullfil his part.

He knew he was that Dragon and that the three heads would be his three children.
No man , no matter how passioned or obsessed , would do the things Rhaegar did , if he wasn't CERTAIN of his role in this.
Also , the wording here is of paramount importance . 'There must be' . Not i want , or i would like , or whatever. There must be.
That leads me to think he is convinced this is something he had to do at all costs , to the point his life and kingdom passed in 2nd fate.
Just for a 3rd child. To me , there's no doubt whatsoever , Rhaegar is that Dragon and the three heads , are his children .
Conclusion. Rhaegar thinks he is the Dragon in the , "the dragon has three heads" . The Dragon of the Prophecy .

Further info/hints/clues/arguments to support Rhaegar is the Dragon of the prophecy and most importantly , what that means.

* first of all : http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/61306-hatching-a-dragon-my-summerhall-theory/ I agree to the last sentence .

Summerhall. It is believed the Targaryens thought a real dragon would hatch that day ; and so it was , if we are to be the judges .
A dragon was indeed born that day and it was Rhaegar Targaryen .
Surely i don't have to recite how many times a Dragon means a Targaryen instead of an actual Dragon
and how often this occurs throughout the ASOIAF world , from Dunk and Egg , to pretty much anything ASOIAF.
This is quite common for other Houses too , not just the Targaryens . See Lannisters being reffered to as Lions e.t.c. .
In this case , it has double the meaning . When it's about Targaryen dreams , or visions , or prophecy , it is vital for the plot .
I also strongly believe Rhaegar's birth was prophecised and i hardly believe there are many different dragon prophecies around .
So far , it's true , we can't but just , for the most part , assume Rhaegar's birth was prophecised by the Ghost of High Heart .
But isn't it a logical assumption to make , as the OP of the afforementioned theory i link above, claims as well?
Egg obviously took it literally , since we know they tried to hatch a dragon ,
but it was actually a Targaryen that would be born that day .

I can't see any other reason for Egg trying to hatch a dragon ON THAT VERY DAY , on Rhaegar's birth .
He was told a dragon would be born that day by the Ghost , who and what else could it possibly be ?
Like that excellent post i linked says , the Ghost also foretold that TPTWP would come of Aerys's line .
So they believed her enough to do this .

Coincedence?  
The Ghost of High Heart foresaw the birth of a dragon at Summerhall .
That dragon in all likelihood was to be the Dragon of the Prophecy , ( since the Ghost is heavily connected with this prophecy )
and only one dragon was born that day and it was none other than Prince Rhaegar .
And i ask , if you happen to find this plausible. Coincedence? Was it a coincedence ? Was it really ? WAS IT

* Rhaegar along with Maister Aemon believed he was the PTWP for many years , that was when Prince Rhaegar was young .
Later on however ,

-

Maester Aemon wrote:“Rhaegar, I thought … the smoke was from the fire that devoured Summerhall on the day of his birth, the salt from the tears shed for those who died.
He shared my belief when he was young, but later he became persuaded that it was his own son who fulfilled the prophecy, for a comet had been seen above King’s Landing on the night Aegon was conceived,
and Rhaegar was certain the bleeding star had to be a comet.”

 

-

How he got persuaded that it was his own son who fullfiled the prophecy , we can't exactly know for certain yet ,
but we can actually draw quite the solid conclusion from Rhaegar's belief on the matter , imho :
For Rhaegar to believe his son would be TPTWP and not him ,
he must have been absolutely SURE he had another part in the prophecy ,
he must have KNOWN somehow that he had a vital part to assume in the prophecy in order for it to be fullfiled .
I mean , if he wasn't absolutely certain ,
100% positive that his part is something else and that he is personally involved in this prophecy ,
why even bother with the prophecy at all , especially after realising he wasn't TPTWP ?

One might say , hey , wouldn't the TPTWP come from his father and thus , his line too?
Maybe he wants more children just to be sure ?
Well , he already has 2 children and as we know , Aegon is already there , he thinks the TPTWP is already here , Aegon .
BUT THEN , why does he need one more and why does he justify this /
imply about it with the phrase , The Dragon Has Three Heads?
Because HE KNOWS he is the Dragon who has three heads and that HEADS mean Children .


If we are to judge from the afforementioned talk with Elia , then by the time of this conversation ,
he is 100% balls deep in convinced he is the Dragon of the Prophecy .
I go into such depths to make a case that he knew and that indeed he was the prophecised Dragon who has the Three Heads , because if that is correct , then a certain somebody with Dragons in this story will have her world turn upside down one day.
 

* The lifelong pursue in understanding/fullfiling the prophecy , and the reasoning behind it *

Rhaegar was commonly reffered to as the Last Dragon . And that was because it was believed he was a legit , true ,
real Targaryen Dragonlord.
If you weren't Robert Baratheon , or Brandon Stark , one at the very least respected dear Rhaegy.
Or where in love with him , for that matter. He's one of the most intriguing characters in ASOIAF .
One of the most central , unique , star of the show , anything positive or/and fascinating you can imagine , Rhaegar was .
He's that magnifiscent bastard men wished they were and women wished were with him.
And he happens to be focking obsessed with having a 3rd child , because the Dragon has three heads. If not him , no one is.  
Rhaegar also knew about the comet.. hmm.. he seems to know a lot about this prophecy indeed.


Rhaegar is the most central vital piece in ASOIAF ; he is the foundation of almost the entire story and i believe ,
just because of the prophecy of the 3headed Dragon will be of massive importance , Rhaegar is the foundation in this one too.
What better of a foundation other than The Dragon of the prophecy , the start of it all ??
Remove Rhaegar out of the books and you have no story , as simple as that .
If he's not the Dragon in 'the Dragon has three heads' , and if the heads don't mean HIS children ,
then why the fk does he bother fullfiling this prophecy , especially when he knows he isn't TPTWP ,
or why does he want a third child so much , to the point going against all common sense?
All that are strong arguments , imho.  

That's the reason he risked his life and his kingdom , to bring forth the three heads , at all costs imaginable.  
He lost his life , his family murdered and his kingdom brought to ruin trying to fullfil his part in it.
Is there anyone here who thinks Rhaegar was wrong about it? That all of it were in vein ?
Would he go THIS FAR , if he wasn't absolutely certain he had to do it? Rhaegar isn't bereft of negatives , but being stupid..? no.
Rhaegar wouldn't go half as far if he didn't KNOW he was the prophecised Dragon .
He knew what he had to do for this prophecy to be fullfiled .
Have three children .
Why is another story , i think only the Ghost of the High Heart is left who really knows the entire prophecy
and what the three heads are prophecised to fullfil. ( i do speculate about it though , #yolo )  

-

Rhaegar is the Dragon of the prophecy , and the three heads are his three children .
Aegon , Jon and , yes , in case you already forgot i wanted to discuss something which troubled me.
Daenerys . I think Daenerys is Rhaegar's daughter , not Aerys's .

-


-

When he thinks Heads=HIS children , i believe it too.
Maybe he's wrong and he isn't even that?
Who actually believes Rhaegar is no vital part of this prophecy .  
Yet he devoted his life to that prophecy and lost everything in order to have that third child .
Was also quite knowledgable about the prophecy . hmm.
ALL in vein?  
And since almost the entire story is based on his actions , it simply cannot be.

This theory strongly suggests , i won't say proved , but really ,
it's plain obvious what Rhaegar thinks of himself and that part of the prophecy ;
The three Heads mean his three children .
So far most think from his children only Jon is alive and as far as Westeros was concerned , then he has no children alive*.
But there's Aegon ( for the record , i don't think he's Faegon , just Aegon ) ;
Then there's Jon ;
And then , there's this piece of text too , which i know many don't make sense about it even today ,
but i hope , after reading all that , ( at least i hope youd did lol )
they may read it under a new light this time and maybe share my bewilderment . When you see it....

-

“I have come for the gift of truth,” Dany said. “In the long hall, the things I saw . . . were they true visions, or lies?
Past things, or things to come? What did they mean?”
. . . the shape of shadows . . . morrows not yet made . . . drink from the cup of ice . . . drink from the cup of fire . . .
. . . mother of dragons . . . child of three . . .
“Three?” She did not understand.
. . . three heads has the dragon . . .

-

And then , there is Daenerys . So , let's summarise this :

Aegon : The Prince That Was Promised
Daenerys : Azor Ahai Reborn
Jon : The Last Hero

All three of them are the children of Rhaegar , who by sharing the Blood of the Dragon* , form the Lightbringer .
(not just Targaryen blood. The blood of the prophecised Dragon , Rhaegar. HIS blood.)
Like Lightbringer , they were formed in different ways , each one has a different mother , and each one will serve a different purpose in the Night to come.
That purpose (i guess) is to be the only 'weapon' that can defeat 'the darkness to come' and bring the Spring back into the world after the Long Night.



SO , she is a Child of Three , why , because = Three Heads has the Dragon .
SO , Rhaegar needed a 3rd child , why , because =  The Dragon has Three Heads . (7hells George u devil , u switched the words , oh u got me there , much wow )
SO , Heads = Children , Dragon = Rhaegar , The Dragon (Rhaegar) has Three Heads(Children) .... And she's a Child of Three.... Because Three Heads(Children) has the Dragon(Rhaegar).

SO , Rhaegar = Father . Right ?

It's the HOTU ; she didn't go there to find out she had 2 brothers ; that's bollocks , she knew that already . Or did she??She hears that phrase in the climax of the chapter and at also at the climax of her arc in ACOK . No way the mystical force that the HOTU are would make such an obvious BS note , like why's that any important anyway??
Even then , there's no other connection to it Child of Three and her brothers anywhere in the books
The ONLY other connection is about Rhaegar and how he must have one more , because the Dragon has three heads. There's literally nothing else other than Rhaegar's words. IMHO , all fit in perfectly .

Rhaegar the prophesized dragon , his children , which all 3 seem to have a great impact in the story ,
the prophecy connecting them all together. It's either this , or wtf.
The Hotu making useless points to Daenerys , noting she has 2 brothers.
Do you see it??
That at this point , where she learns of all the truths and visions and past , she listens something so lame??
It does not fit , it doesn't connect with anything , it can't be straightforward , and it imho , it isn't .

The Hotu reveal her identity there. The one half of her identity is the Mother of Dragons , the one the world shall know and the other , the one nobody knows but she must come to know for herself , is that she's a Child of Three ;
A Head of the Dragon , a child of Rhaegar Targaryen.
Both Rhaegar and HOTU use the same exact sentences and words in different order , why would it mean
something so obvious and lame for Daenerys , especially coming from the HOTU??

Even Quaithe mentions something weird in ADWD ;

Quaithe wrote:Remember who you are, Daenerys, ... The dragons know. Do you?

It never made sense to me before , but i now seem to connect it with all of this.. the Dragons sense one of their own in Daenerys , because she has the blood of the prophesized Dragon , Rhaegar's blood. Maybe Quaithe says what she says there , because she most likely knows the truth of Daenerys ... some think Quaithe is Ashara Dayne , and if that's true ,
i think that's why she helps Daenerys all this time and also knows her true parentage.. but i don't have more on this right now. But to me and to this theory , it makes sense if Quaithe is Ashara Dayne .

Anyhow , Quaithe also implores her to remember the Undying... i wonder why and what exactly she must remember? As far as ADWD is concerned , what Daenerys remembers is the phrase , The Dragon Has Three Heads , but she believes she must find Dragonriders for her Dragons There's a certain someone who she must thank for those notions ..

( and it's Jorah the Andal , dat legit mentor )

_

Something i now find really weird is that , many do make the connection that Rhaegar talks about children there when talking about the three heads , but can't think of Dany as one even it's right there in the text , the Hotu say it.
Unless you preffer to believe all the rest are true and this isnt.

Or include Dany in there too , just because , you know , for the sole reason she has dragons.. Well no shit sherlock.
Beyond that tho ? That's at best just a guess , without anything else to make a case.
If you ask me , the connection is in the blood they all share , not in the dragons , or just the Targaryen name , or because they may be orphans wtf.
It's about the magics of old Valyria and such things and in whose blood it runs true / strong .
In this case , they all share the blood of the prophesized Dragon , Rhaegar .

Others include Dany for whatever reason , but never grasp the notion that Rhaegar is the Dragon of the prophecy.
I mean wtf , they read half of it ? Others go completely away from what they read in the text , including Bran or Tyrion . mkay.

I mean ok , opinions , mine is just that as well.
But pay close attention , and you'll see Tyrion has nothing to do with this , Targ bastard or not , Dragon knowledge or not. This has to do about Rhaegar to begin with and how Tyrion fits in there i will never get . Because his mother died giving birth to him? Even then , it would be Aerys's child, not Rhaegar's.
And Aerys would be the last person of all the Targaryens mentioned in ASOIAF to be the dragon of that prophecy.
The heads can only be the children of the Dragon and that Dragon is most certainly Rhaegar.
Anyway , that was to show my disagreement to other theories/opinions and speculation i've read about the three heads of the dragon.

Or , i honestly cannot really get why so many accept Jorah's opinion on this , that the three heads mean dragonriders ?  
I mean wtf, what does Jorah know , about either prophecies or dragon stuff ?
Rhaegar does know and the HOTU also know , if anyone knows , it's them.
Everything said there happened , happens or will happen.
( only Rhaego doesn't happen , but that Dany knew already )

Hmm , whom do i choose to believe ???
Jorah , who quickly half arsed what he remembered from high school , or Rhaegar and the HOTU.. hmm , tough choice .
lel. And this with Jorah is probably one of the best red herrings in the entire series , by the way .

It is right after Daenerys escapes the HOTU , where she learned all sorts of truths , regardless of her understanding about it all.
So after she goes through all that and survives the HOTU , she asks Jorah what he thinks , and Ser Jorah says
some BS about sigils and Aegon the Conqueror even a pleb from Flee Bottom could tell you and oh my focking gods -
three heads = necessarily dragonriders !!
What else could it possibly beee?? Pls.
The fact that Dany sort of agrees / let's it float , only strengthens this red herring.
But it is a red herring , in my honest opinion. If you sit down and think about it , JORAH KNOWS SHIT about it all.

Yet we read what Rhaegar said .
Yet we read what the HOTU said.
Even in monomyth rules , Dany's underworld = the HOTU . She's supposed to gain some mystical strength / learn some great truth from this journey .
Not only she gets her dragons back(mystical strength) , but guess what great truth she learns. The Dragon has Three Heads.
She contemplates on that till ADWD . hmmmmm
Fun Fact : Ser Jorah is her mentor both during that time and going by the monomyth stuff , he fullfils the role of the mentor.
Guess this is why so many believed Jorah , because all the Heads=Dragonriders stuff begin from him , right there .
We get red-herr'd from Jorah , the most trusted advisor Daenerys had untill that point , her mentor . Well played GRRM .

The HOTU chapter is getting confirmed throughout the years . Will that be different? Just that ? Personally , i don't think so.
Fun Fact : If you read the monomyth , or the Hero's Journey . It's the father figure/the Father himself that reveals that kind of info to the Hero/Protagonist .
Guess who revealed "the Dragon has three heads" to Daenerys first. Yeap. It was Rhaegar .
Coincedence? So many coincedences in this one , consider my jimmies rustled.
What i am basically trying to say is , it's right there , fock Jorah , what does he even know really.


____

There's at least a 2nd part which i've yet to finish . It has to do with Daenerys's mother , which yeah , it's not Rhaella if .
I think it is Ashara Dayne . There are a few pretty strong hints in the books to back it up . More details overall in the 2nd part. I also want to speak about all the weak points in the 2nd post , whenever i finish it .
I would like to draw some lines , either to expand on this or to just debunk it in discussion .
Last but not least , how i think the rest of the story played out up untill Daenerys gets to have her first memories .

Obviously Viserys lied to her all her life , he used her to ascend to the Throne way before she even met Drogon , knowing that Daenerys would be the rightfull heir and not him . So he hid her identity from her and raised her up as his sister , not only because he wanted to be King , but i think because he wanted to avenge his House and family , i think he believed a little girl would never accomplish this. I also think 'certain people' managed to change the stories somehow , i believe Rhaella was the one to have the stillborn daughter and not Ashara... and that she was the one who died , probably because of her age . So Ashara had to lie about her supposed stillborn along with the help of the Daynes and also fake her death in order to protect her Targaryen child , Daenerys .

There's also a possibility that Doran may know the full truth about all of this ... and that the one who brought Daenerys to Bravos eventually , was Oberyn , when he travelled there to seal the secret pact with the Sealord of Braavos. I think Daenerys was in the Water Gardens before that , where she was given her name by her mother Ashara and that's where the house with the red door is . Later on , she legit went to Braavos and off to wander about and to our story in AGOT . But there are gaps and dots i can't seem to connect , at least so far. Tbh , i haven't done a complete re-read yet. Maybe then.

** i tried to edit it many times over , but it was too big and annoyingly repeatitive at certain points.. sry about that , at least i think the points are easy to point out .

I just imagined something along these lines for the beginning of the next book...

They burn Jon Snow to prevent him from changing and he revives similar to how the dormant dragon eggs Daenerys took into Drogos pyre suddenly gained life and hatched.

It would confirm R+L=J and would be a nice way to bring him back if he is coming back at all.

But if that's true, why Aegon is not even in the show? He can't be a head of the dragon IMO.

Because the show runners want to end in 7 seasons as opposed to books 8 or 9 like George. Same reason they killed Stannis off. They realize that if they want to finish by then they need to start eliminating characters.

free_cat wrote:But if that's true, why Aegon is not even in the show? He can't be a head of the dragon IMO.

Although BC did make a good point  , in any case it's obvious the show doesn't bother with prophecy anyway , so far at least. The only prophecy they touched upon was with regards to Cercei and that's because it marked Cercei for all her life and the viewers had to know this . And it was like one scene , without any more mentions about it.

This prophecy , if it ever comes to the show , it will be like in the last season or something and even then , they can do whatever they want with it , they will probably focus it all only on Jon or Daenerys , but in any case , books and show , as things turned out , it's pointless to mix them together to make conclusions about the future of the story .

As far as Aegon being a head , obviously if he's Faegon then he isn't one .

In any case , i believe he's the real Aegon and if Rhaegar was right , he's not only one of the three heads , he could be TPTWP as well .

I believe each and every one of the three heads of the Dragons are to be the TPTWP , AA and the Last Hero , different entities of the same legend/prophecy .

And actually , Aegon does makes a somewhat good case

* The commet when he was born
* Literally was born a prince and grew up with the sole purpose of saving the kingdoms from their downfall
* Rhaegar who knew all sorts of things about the prophecy , believed Aegon would be TPTWP
* If indeed Rhaegar is the Dragon who had the three heads , then it's all but confirmed , IF he is the real Aegon.

I think people focus heavily on the Heads of the Dragon becoming the Dragonriders and that's why it is so hard to see through all of this . But even Martin said it isn't necessary to be a Targaryen to be one..

Daenerys is one , at least according to my theory and even then she already rode Drogon . She may be looking for dragonriders , but that doesn't mean that all 3 heads will be riding a dragon , or that the prophecy points out at that .

If anything , as far as text backing up goes , then i am yet to see a better case than the Three Heads of the Dragon being Rhaegar's children. It's right there and the Hotu and Rhaegar claim the same thing. Even if you think Rhaegar is wrong , what about the House of the Undying? They were right about almost everything else . Will everything turn out to be legit but this particularly climactic and mysterious paragraph , won't ??

I also forgot to mention , Daenerys dreams of Rhaegar in AGOT . In one of her dreams , she opens the visor of his helmet and she sees herself in there. Like one and the same , the same blood . One might think that's because as far as we know that's her brother , but i think this is very well hidden foreshadowing .

In any case , this about the Three Heads of the Dragon.. it ALWAYS leads back to Rhaegar , whichever way you see it. And the foundation of my thoughts about this is also Rhaegar , that he knew he was that Dragon of the prophecy and he knew that his children would be the Three Heads. When i say he knew , like you know 1+1=2 , that kind of way.
We right now , read the story after what Rhaegar did .

If he was right , and tbh i think it all makes a good case that he was indeed right , then apart from his children being the Three Heads , i think it also confirms Aegon being the real one .

Now I see why Dante believes Aegon is not a fake

Very nice theory, I read it before too but I still have a hard time believing that Dany is not Rhaella's daughter, which is why I can't wait to read your second part explaining this part a bit better.

urbaNRoots wrote:Now I see why Dante believes Aegon is not a fake

Very nice theory, I read it before too but I still have a hard time believing that Dany is not Rhaella's daughter, which is why I can't wait to read your second part explaining this part a bit better.

nah , i always believed Aegon was legit , this theory just came to me a few months ago.. though i must say , it adds some conviction in my thoughts on Aegon , but in any case , it's just a theory .

As for Aegon , i think people made the Faegon theory because he was introduced very late on. Also the POVs we see Aegon in , first Tyrion and then J-Con , hmm.. doesn't exactly portrait or align with a character that's necessarily likeable and such . Pretty sure if he was around since book 2-3 people wouldn't even think about Faegon theories , would be cast aside as tin foil. There was a thread at reddit talking about the power of the POV ; It's all perspective as the OP was saying ..

This lad arrived out of the blue with all the controversy and mystery surrounding him , of course people will be sceptical . But had he been a character in ACOK , or ASOS ?? I think people would laugh at the Faegon theories , now it's different and i think it was meant to be this way by GRRM , both in and out of the story . Also , when i read the books , it never crossed my mind he could be fake and i am yet to be conviced , i do not exclude it though.

As for , if Rhaegar was right about Aegon , and if it confirms it. Well ... the HOTU say Three heads has the Dragon... not had , but has ; i think it indicates all 3 are alive . Still out there . anyway ,

__

As for the 2nd part... i don't really know when i am going to finish it , i am currently researching stuff . BTW , it's not just me who thinks Rhaegar is Daenerys' father.. there's this guy on youtube also , some Preston Jackobs who came to the same conclusion , but he thinks Dany is Lyanna's daughter , not Ashara's .

Not sure if he means she and Jon are twins , or if he thinks Jon is Ashara Dayne's kid , i don't remember right now . Whatever the case ; I am not using this to my theory's favour.. i am just saying , there's actually something 'there' and others have doubts about Daenerys' past as well.. i think there's definitely something when these two were born , something that connects it all , but i can't grasp it yet.

I don't think Aegon is the third head of the dragon.

I think it's either Bran or Tyrion.

But with Bran, he can either warg into a dragon or actually ride one. Riding one doesn't make sense since he isn't in any sort of way a targaryen. Apart from being Bloodraven's disciple.

Tyrion makes sense because that's exactly the sort of thing GRRM would do.


When Rhaegar counted Aegon as one head, he was alive. And we don't know if the current Aegon is real or not. Most likely he is fake. If the real one died then someone else replaces the third head. Trystane died trying to be one eventhough he had connections in being the closest to ride one.

Although, the whole prophecy could very well be bullshit.

Yeah Dante, I'm eagerly waiting to hear your take on Daenerys being Rhaegar's daughter. For me, I really think she is just Aerys and Rhaella's daughter. We have a lot of facts about her birth. We hear she got conceived the night Aerys burned Brandon and Rickard. Aerys was a sick mofo who only got turned on after seeing people burn. That night he viciously raped Rhaella while Jaime stood on guard at the door.

Rhaella spent the duration of her pregnancy on Dragonstone. Nine moons after their midnight flight from King's Landing Rhaella gave birth to her third child and only daughter Princess Daenerys while a raging summer storm threatened to rip the island fastness apart. Rhaella died shortly thereafter from complications of giving birth. Rhaella's surviving children inherited her crown. Later, in poverty in exile, they sell their mother’s crown in order to survive.

We know she was pregnant, there are eyewitness accounts of that. She could have died from a miscarriage but we hear the Daenerys was born during a great storm, thus Daenerys Stormborn. She was smuggled out by Ser Willem Darry from Dragonstone along with Viserys when Stannis captured it. Oberyn bringing her from Dorne to Braavos does explain it but then it leaves another hole. If Doran knows about Daenerys, then why would he betroth Arianne to Viserys. Doran says he planned to make Arianne Queen of Westeros by marrying her to Viserys but the heir to the throne would be Rahegar's daughter over Rhaegar's brother. Well I guess if Daenerys is Ashara's she would be a bastard and thus Viserys was the rightful heir anyway.

And another thing. Rhaegar already had a daughter. Why did he need to have two more kids (dragon has three heads) with Lyanna and Ashara when he already had Rhaella and Aegon? Remember, Rhaella was killed after Rhaegar's death. I've seen you mention Rhaegar just fell in love with Lyanna. Hmm so I guess you are saying Jon was an accident? But Daenerys is younger than Jon, that means Rhaegar and Ashara had sex after Rhaegar already made Lyanna pregnant.

http://www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comments/3a4jhy/spoilers_all_a_theory_ive_never_seen_before_for/

I love this theory. I think it has strong chances. If you guys read back a few pages I had asked how Jon's death would affect him and this might nail it right on the head.

Dante the main problem I have with your theory is that you go "The dragon must have three heads" and then make the jump to "Rhaeghar considered himself the dragon and his offspring his three heads" without justification. I think there's plenty of evidence to suggest that Rhaeghar initially thought he was the PTWP but after not having siblings decided that instead the PTWP would be born out of his line. Most people accept that he believed Aegon to be PTWP, not himself.

Nice catch about Visenya being the name for the 3rd kid, I never saw that before.

RealGunner wrote:I don't think Aegon is the third head of the dragon.


I think it's either Bran or Tyrion.

But with Bran, he can either warg into a dragon or actually ride one. Riding one doesn't make sense since he isn't in any sort of way a targaryen. Apart from being Bloodraven's disciple.

Tyrion makes sense because that's exactly the sort of thing GRRM would do.

exactly what i mentioned earlier , people connect Tyrion and Bran without any basis

We don't know if Bran can warg into Dragons , no matter how strong a warg he seems to be . Sure even warging Hodor was huge , but the Dragons are magical beasts and such , not exactly your easy-to-warg-beast , as far as we know , nobody has ever done it. There's this quote from Bloodraven , "you will fly" .. but the most logical assumption to make , is that he's talking about his ravens , which are all over the cave there. Other than that , Bran has absolutely nothing else on him to connect him with the three headed dragon. Not the slightest of hints. This is an ancient prophecy , older than Aegon the Conqueror ; It's incredibly likely its roots reside in Valyria , what does Bran and his arc being solely about the North have to do with an ancient Valyrian prophecy , i do not see . Also , being his disciple means nothing with regards to connecting him with a Targaryen prophecy ? And physically get up on a dragon's back and take a ride is simply out of this world .

As for Tyrion , ask yourself this. Had his path been different and he didn't actually end up in Meereen near Daenerys. Would you or would you not laugh at the idea that a dwarf would ride and command a Dragon ?? How cheesy is it to make a fan favourite that doesn't fit the bill , any kind of bill , be one of the dragonriders ? I severely disagree , i think that's exactly the thing GRRM would never do . He even joked about it once in his blog , Tyrion being a dragonrider. What else do you need really , that pretty much confirms it to me

If anything , freaking Daario has better chances to be a dragonrider compared to Tyrion really , imo at least

Again , the three heads of the dragon don't have to be the dragonriders ; nor is it implied anywhere in the books that they seem to be that , other than what i mentioned earlier with Jorah making his BS guesses , trying to mentor Daenerys when she asked his take on it. Think for a moment , about the unreliable narator thing. What would an exiled knight of the North would know about valyrian prophecies and cryptic visions ??

My opinion is he doesn't know two shits , but nevertheless tried to flash out stuff he learned in high school that even a peasant from Flee Bottom could tell you about , to fullfil his role as mentor . And honestly , ALL the talk about the heads >> dragonriders stem from him . You can check ACOK if you like , but the fact remains , Jorah started this bs and he doesn't know what he's talking about , he really doesn't . He reffers to the sigil and Aegon the Conqueror and his sisters and that they were the original heads of the dragon . Dany is on the same page but doesn't expand on it , hence , you automaticaly make the assumption that surely the next ones will be dragonriders as well . But is there a single clue about this anywhere else in the books?? There isn't , at least i haven't found any yet..  

When Rhaegar counted Aegon as one head, he was alive. And we don't know if the current Aegon is real or not.   Most likely he is fake. If the real one died then someone else replaces the third head. Trystane died trying to be one eventhough he had connections in being the closest to ride one.

Although, the whole prophecy could very well be bullshit.

hmm , i can accept the idea that prophecy could be BS really. That i always think about , no matter theories and what not. Before i jump onto Aegon , let me tackle Trystane . Trystane had Targaryen ancestors , sure .. but that doesn't even remotely mean he was the closest to ride one . It doesn't matter if you're a Targaryen , or if you had Targ ancestors. Most likely , you simply need to be one of the blood of old Valyria to be one . And even then , nothing's certain. Do you remember that woman who rode Sheepstealer ?? She used her brains to ride him and she was succesfull . She was a bastard if memory serves me right , of the Velaryons?? like whatever , she still managed to ride him . I am trying to point out here , a dragonrider can be almost anyone who has roots in Valyria . But the three heads of the dragon , of this story , doesn't have to be ones , nor does anything actually indicate they will .

As for Aegon . As far as the books are concerned , Aegon is (still) legit . Maybe he is , maybe he isn't . What we know seems to indicate Aegon is legit and thus , if Rhaegar had the right of it , then Aegon is at the very least , a much likely candidate in the first place . But again , that doesn't mean he will ride one of Dany's dragons . For all we know , one of the dragons dies in the next book . Aegon could die before he can even see one and that's also likely .

In any case , Rhaegar counted Aegon as one head... but we don't actually know what that means , you/people just assume it means a Dragonrider . The only solid conclusion you could take from this , literaly the only one , is that Rhaegar thought his children would be the heads of the dragon , thus believing himself was that Dragon , hence why he went balls deep with the prophecy .

BS prophecy or not , the story we read , became reality because of Rhaegar's actions and we know by know Rhaegar is the closest to a Mary Sue we have in these books. Would GRRM base all this on BS ? With no end result , no pay-back in the end?? If it's BS , why do the HOTU make note of it , when everything else they say is legit?? I wouldn't really count on this being BS really , although ever a possibility with GRRM..

Much more likely , this prophecy won't actually turn out as people expect it to be and that's the heads necessarily becoming the dragonriders .

BarrileteCosmico wrote:http://www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comments/3a4jhy/spoilers_all_a_theory_ive_never_seen_before_for/

I love this theory. I think it has strong chances. If you guys read back a few pages I had asked how Jon's death would affect him and this might nail it right on the head.

Dante the main problem I have with your theory is that you go "The dragon must have three heads" and then make the jump to "Rhaeghar considered himself the dragon and his offspring his three heads" without justification. I think there's plenty of evidence to suggest that Rhaeghar initially thought he was the PTWP but after not having siblings decided that instead the PTWP would be born out of his line. Most people accept that he believed Aegon to be PTWP, not himself.

Nice catch about Visenya being the name for the 3rd kid, I never saw that before.

Without justification ?? I don't have to justify anything , he does so himself

If you need some sort of justification , it's all about the Ghost of High Hearth .. i think she knows the prophecy and i think it's implied/told somewhere in the books the two of them spend time at Summerhall ; which we know Rhaegar frequented often . That's how he became 'pursuaded' he wasn't actually TPTWP , but his son would be . And i think , the Ghost made him see he was the Dragon in that line. I think they were trying to decipher the prophecy together , with a few words and i think she influenced him , also remember the Ghost also foretold about the prince and also foretold a dragon would be born that day , when summerhall burned.. Rhaegar was born that day ?? Do you think it's a coincedence? All of this , a coincedence , and Rhaegar was wrong?

And where do his siblings matter on this?? Rhaegar did not decide anything , Aemon says Rhaegar got 'persuaded' . That's how he changed his mind and that means someone helped him and i am pretty certain it's the Ghost of High Hearth , during the time they spend together at Summerhal.

Also , i don't imply Rhaegar is TPTWP. I very specificaly say Aegon , his son is that one. I said , many times , that Rhaegar knew/at least believed fiercely , that he was the Dragon , in that line of " The dragon has three heads." He says so himself and the Hotu also say the same thing to Daenerys , they say the dragon has three heads to justify/talk about a child/children . You didn't really read it all did you

Anyway , could you tell me who then is that Dragon supposed to be , if not Rhaegar?? Because Rhaegar was clearly to the point of obsession about this all and everything points out he seemed to believe-know that was his role in the prophecy . Rhaegar thought he was that Dragon and that the heads would be his children . He also thought his son Aegon would be TPTWP , so far so good. All i say is the same thing , I am basing everything on text tbh , i am not really making a guess on if he is , or he isn't . I just believe he is because he clearly believes so himself.

Also , did you think of this yet? Rhaegar thought his children would be the three heads , but ask yourself , why ? Because he found out what the heads mean , we don't know what their purpose is , but according to what Rhaegar thinks in the books , the heads in that line mean children . And why would he continue with the prophecy at all , if he didn't KNOW he had a role to play in it . Since we know he stopped believing himself to be TPTWP , why else he thinks his children are to be the 3 heads and that he must have one more ?? Isn't it fully straight forward , that he believes he is that Dragon , in that line?

I more than justified what i talked about in the theory earlier and even then , if Rhaegars words isn't enough for someone , there's the Hotu , who say the exact same thing to Dany . They call her , Child of Three and she asks , Three? and the HOTU respond with the same way as Rhaegar , three heads has the dragon

why Child of Three/there must be one more (child) ?? Because the Dragon has three heads /three heads has the dragon

It cannot be more obvious and it comes from our most reliable sources on this matter. Heads , mean children and THUS , if Rhaegar was right to believe himself that Dragon , in that line , then Aegon might be the legit one and Daenerys , could actually be his child .

I am not saying i am 100% convinced , afterall , i was the first to doubt it all and i am actually trying to find proof to debunk it if i can... but surely , you see the connection there ?

Just read Bran's chapter about learning his greenseer powers through the trees. Now he has an effing time machine ffs

One interesting part I remember from the beginning of book 1 is when Ned was cleaning Ice by the weirwood tree, he actually turned around and said "who is there" because he heard a whisper of some sorts but we never got to know what that was and now we know it was actually Bran from the future Thought that was cool. Wonder what and who the other past events at Winterfell Bran saw through the tree were.

Also in the previous Bran chapter when Lord Brynden said you will fly, I had dragons in mind not ravens

Don't call me James wrote:Just read Bran's chapter about learning his greenseer powers through the trees. Now he has an effing time machine ffs

One interesting part I remember from the beginning of book 1 is when Ned was cleaning Ice by the weirwood tree, he actually turned around and said "who is there" because he heard a whisper of some sorts but we never got to know what that was and now we know it was actually Bran from the future Thought that was cool. Wonder what and who the other past events at Winterfell Bran saw through the tree were.

Also in the previous Bran chapter when Lord Brynden said you will fly, I had dragons in mind not ravens

In the chapter Bran sees other events,

A girl and a younger boy play fighting with branches;[3]

A pregnant woman coming out of the black pool praying for a son to avenge her;

A slender girl on her toes kissing a knight as tall as Hodor;[4]

A pale, dark-eyed youth cutting three branches from the weirwood and shaping them into arrows;

Other lords of Winterfell: tall, hard, stern men in fur and chain mail;

A bearded man forcing a captive down on his knees, and a white-haired woman killing the captive with a bronze sickle

A slender girl on her toes kissing a knight as tall as Hodor;[4]

Is that Sansa and the hound?

I think it's Ser Duncan the Tall and some girl in Winterfell, maybe Old Nan, which would explain Hodor being so big.

Bran can't see the future, he can only see the past.

M99 wrote:Bran can't see the future, he can only see the past.

Is he a Liverpool fan