Everton v Liverpool

Yeah and at 45 mins Gerrard wasn't up for it, he should of been subbed then and cou, sterling and DS given a chance to play with each other.

Ibe is 5 times the player Markovic will ever be. 20 *bleep* million.

Having followed the NFL closely for the last 4 years and seeing how much emphasis is put into tactics and game plans, it sucks watching us play with seemingly no clue. There seems to be this constant lack of a plan in the front half of the pitch.

The players make some terrible decisions up front. It has been the case all season.

Still trying to wrap my head around the subs.

Nishy wrote:Ibe is 5 times the player Markovic will ever be. 20 *bleep* million.

I don't agree with that. Markovic has been overplayed the last couple of weeks. Additionally, he has been doing a very good job defensively. His form was bound to drop. That said, Ibe does look good.

Art brah read what I said. I was okay with him starting. But he should never play 90 minutes in a game like this specially when he was a passenger in the first half.

poolsupporter wrote:

Nishy wrote:Ibe is 5 times the player Markovic will ever be. 20 *bleep* million.

I don't agree with that. Markovic has been overplayed the last couple of weeks. Additionally, he has been doing a very good job defensively. His form was bound to drop. That said, Ibe does look good.

Markovic has hardly been overplayed or then Coutinho, Henderson, Sterling, Skrtel, Sakho, Moreno and Can have been overplayed, too. Based on this one game, Ibe looked to me just as good as Markovic, if not better, so I'm, too, a little 'ugh' about spending £20m on Markovic...

Don't call me James wrote:Art brah read what I said. I was okay with him starting. But he should never play 90 minutes in a game like this specially when he was a passenger in the first half.

Come on, man, it's not about the 90 minutes, it's about Stevie starting or not. He starts, no good. He comes on as a sub, okay good, a surprise factor. But you cannot go from "I don't mind him starting at all" to "f*** this shit, he played 90 minutes".

Art Morte wrote:

poolsupporter wrote:

Nishy wrote:Ibe is 5 times the player Markovic will ever be. 20 *bleep* million.

I don't agree with that. Markovic has been overplayed the last couple of weeks. Additionally, he has been doing a very good job defensively. His form was bound to drop. That said, Ibe does look good.

Markovic has hardly been overplayed or then Coutinho, Henderson, Sterling, Skrtel, Sakho, Moreno and Can have been overplayed, too. Based on this one game, Ibe looked to me just as good as Markovic, if not better, so I'm, too, a little 'ugh' about spending £20m on Markovic...

Right, because everyone has the same levels of fitness and stamina. I'm NOT saying Markovic is "5 times" the player Ibe is, but you're talking like Ibe added so much more than Markovic has over the last couple of weeks.

Yes, he looked good and I'm excited about bleeding him into the first team. However, you can't blame Markovic for his price tag. The transfer team agreed to pay more than what he was worth. (Yes, I agree he isn't worth the 20, however I try not to judge his performances on the price tag.)

poolsupporter wrote:

Art Morte wrote:

poolsupporter wrote:


I don't agree with that. Markovic has been overplayed the last couple of weeks. Additionally, he has been doing a very good job defensively. His form was bound to drop. That said, Ibe does look good.

Markovic has hardly been overplayed or then Coutinho, Henderson, Sterling, Skrtel, Sakho, Moreno and Can have been overplayed, too. Based on this one game, Ibe looked to me just as good as Markovic, if not better, so I'm, too, a little 'ugh' about spending £20m on Markovic...

Right, because everyone has the same levels of fitness and stamina. I'm NOT saying Markovic is "5 times" the player Ibe is, but you're talking like Ibe added so much more than Markovic has over the last couple of weeks.

Yes, he looked good and I'm excited about bleeding him into the first team. However, you can't blame Markovic for his price tag. The transfer team agreed to pay more than what he was worth. (Yes, I agree he isn't worth the 20, however I try not to judge his performances on the price tag.)

But why sign Markovic for any price tag if we have a player doing the same things in our squad already?

Disappointing result, but Everton really did park the bus from first minute and we seemed to have be happy with a point in the last 20 minutes or so.

Lucas injury is BIG BIG blow. Really stark contrast between him and Allen , and what a time to get injured ffs....

Hope Phil's knock isn't serious, Spurs game has "MUST WIN" written all over it.

Shame Stevie's bicycle kick didn't go in...4 clean sheets in a row now in the league and 4th one away from home on the bounce.

Art Morte wrote:

poolsupporter wrote:

Art Morte wrote:

Markovic has hardly been overplayed or then Coutinho, Henderson, Sterling, Skrtel, Sakho, Moreno and Can have been overplayed, too. Based on this one game, Ibe looked to me just as good as Markovic, if not better, so I'm, too, a little 'ugh' about spending £20m on Markovic...

Right, because everyone has the same levels of fitness and stamina. I'm NOT saying Markovic is "5 times" the player Ibe is, but you're talking like Ibe added so much more than Markovic has over the last couple of weeks.

Yes, he looked good and I'm excited about bleeding him into the first team. However, you can't blame Markovic for his price tag. The transfer team agreed to pay more than what he was worth. (Yes, I agree he isn't worth the 20, however I try not to judge his performances on the price tag.)

But why sign Markovic for any price tag if we have a player doing the same things in our squad already?

Depth primarily. Not to mention Ibe hadn't really played much, if any first team football at all. We've all seen glimpses of brilliance within our youth, but a number of times, for whatever reason things have not panned out for a lot of them. Pacheco & Suso come to mind. Ibe has obviously impressed on loan and has earned a call up to our first team. (Which he obviously hasn't done for Brendan prior to this loan spell)

Personally, I'm happy to have Markovic at LFC. The price sucks, but then again, over-paying for players has become our MO. Lovren, Markovic, Lallana, etc.

PS: Were you referencing Ibe in the above post?

You don't spend 20m on depth, pool.

We overpaid. It's as simple as that. He's a decent talent, but like Nish and Art have said, Ibe is in the same bracket with same, if not even higher ceiling.

Ibe should be the "depth", a 20m signing should be a first team proven player.

Red Alert wrote:You don't spend 20m on depth, pool.

We overpaid. It's as simple as that. He's a decent talent, but like Nish and Art have said, Ibe is in the same bracket with same, if not even higher ceiling.

Ibe should be the "depth", a 20m signing should be a first team proven player.

What I'm trying to say is that we can't use a player's price tag so rigidly to determine a player's quality. What do you guys have to say about Lallana and Lovren?

For whatever reason we seem to overpay for talent these days. And that's not the player's fault.

Furthermore, I think Markovic will come good with time. I recall the hate Henderson got on here when he first came in. Hell, I remember a time when Red & myself were the only two people on these forums who believed Lucas would come good.

On Lallana, overpaid about 10m. Decent back-up to Coutinho. Shouldn't have been signed for that much. Stupid how the back up target (Shaqiri) was better and cheaper yet were adamant on him. Money should of been spent smarter.

On Lovren, do you really want to know my opinion on him and that stupid fee?

It's not the players fault, it's managements. If we continue to overpay for these "talents" we're not going to progress.

Markovic may or may not become good. But Ibe is arguably better. Who was in our academy. Who was free. So it's pretty much 20m wasted... whichever way you look at it.

I defended Henderson. Think he's been overhyped to no end nowadays, as he still needs to progress in terms of an end product, but he's still solid and is arguably our best midfielder. He's some what paid off his fee. We won't lose money on him. But management was stupid then too. We picked Henderson over Gotze ffs.

LOL, man it's like you think we can sign whoever we want. Gotze, hahahaha.

The Times journalist Rory Smith in an interview with Damien Comolli added Liverpool had the chance to go for Mario Gotze but instead Jordan Henderson was chosen.

hahahaha

Red Alert wrote:On Lallana, overpaid about 10m. Decent back-up to Coutinho. Shouldn't have been signed for that much. Stupid how the back up target (Shaqiri) was better and cheaper yet were adamant on him. Money should of been spent smarter.

On Lovren, do you really want to know my opinion on him and that stupid fee?

It's not the players fault, it's managements. If we continue to overpay for these "talents" we're not going to progress.

Markovic may or may not become good. But Ibe is arguably better. Who was in our academy. Who was free. So it's pretty much 20m wasted... whichever way you look at it.

I defended Henderson. Think he's been overhyped to no end nowadays, as he still needs to progress in terms of an end product, but he's still solid and is arguably our best midfielder. He's some what paid off his fee. We won't lose money on him. But management was stupid then too. We picked Henderson over Gotze ffs.

I'm glad we can agree on the ridiculousness of our spending.

The one thing I cannot agree about in the above post is the statement that Ibe is arguably better than Markovic. He has played a game and a half.

As for money wasted, I completely disagree. In watching Markovic play, he has definitely shown glimpses of being someone that has the ability to come up with some game winning plays.

He's got more to his game. He's more developed physically and mentally. And he's played more than a game and a half for us. He was matching Sterling in the reserves, hell you can argue he was outperforming Raheem. He's not looked at out of place at all in any first team game for us too.

As soon as Ibe gets some consistent football under his name he's going to be huge.

Markovic has shown glimpses, I'm not denying he hasn't. Again, he has talent. But look at the bigger picture here. We now have to give Ibe AND Markovic consistent game time to improve or they'll stagnate. Who gets benched? The player that's arguably just as good / better or the foreign one that cost 20m?

LOL RA your too much mate, "had the chance to go for" hahaha keep pulling shit out of your arse.

We have the chance to go for messi this summer, so if we don't land him FSG out.

Again Gotze would of never came to us back then lol.

That was in Rory Smith's article dude. With his interview with Gotze. Don't have to believe it, but that's what both Damian and Rory Smith claim.

Regardless if he "would of never came to us", we choose an inferior player as the primary target...

Nishy wrote:Ibe is 5 times the player Markovic will ever be. 20 *bleep* million.

BAD Dobby

Will explain later

Replace primary with realistic RA.

Rory smith's claim is based on Damian's word, therefore it's just about believing Damian, again all he said was we decided to go for Henderson over Gotze, you can't even say we would of got Gotze.

It's hardly anything to have a go at FSG about, Gotze's name was mentioned that's it, the kid would of never came to us, why chase gotze with no realistic target and then be desperate for hendo and pay even more like we would.

It really doesnt matter whether we were gonna sign Goetze or not, No point even bringing him up RA.

Red Alert wrote:He's got more to his game. He's more developed physically and mentally. And he's played more than a game and a half for us. He was matching Sterling in the reserves, hell you can argue he was outperforming Raheem. He's not looked at out of place at all in any first team game for us too.

As soon as Ibe gets some consistent football under his name he's going to be huge.

Markovic has shown glimpses, I'm not denying he hasn't. Again, he has talent. But look at the bigger picture here. We now have to give Ibe AND Markovic consistent game time to improve or they'll stagnate. Who gets benched? The player that's arguably just as good / better or the foreign one that cost 20m?

I understand what you're saying. I still think they both need a lot of game time to better judge their quality. Additionally, with new and young players we can't have them playing every single game. We'll end up with another Owen.

I do think having the two of them is very beneficial for the team. IMO there is room for both to play. Specially against the smaller teams that tend to defend a lot more than usual. Could play one in each WB position.

That said, I understand the point you're trying to make.

We have Ibe who has played like one game before the summer...so wait, we are not getting player anyways so we should just not buy Markovic also because Nostradamus told in the summer that half season loan of Ibe is going to give him a chance to play for the first team I dont think you can really think that way. In hindsight, it is really easy to blame people

Well I agree that probably Markovic wasnt worth 20m. But may be it is a similar risk like we did with Coutinho and Sturridge, although for a higher cost. So it is early to think that Markovic signing for 20m is bad business.

We paid MORE for Markovic than we did signing both of Coutinho AND Sturridge.

And we spent 20m for a player that wasn't even head and shoulders better than we already had.

We spent 20m on a player that actually needs time and patience to get better.

This is where we keep ********* up. We're turning into the next Arsenal ffs. We're slowly turning into a selling club, which is worrying because we actually have money now. Under G+H it was under stable because the idiots had us in debt and we actually needed the money to survive.

Now we're getting rid of key players and replacing them with inferior ones and wondering what's gone wrong.

poolsupporter wrote:
I understand what you're saying. I still think they both need a lot of game time to better judge their quality. Additionally, with new and young players we can't have them playing every single game. We'll end up with another Owen.

I do think having the two of them is very beneficial for the team. IMO there is room for both to play. Specially against the smaller teams that tend to defend a lot more than usual. Could play one in each WB position.

That said, I understand the point you're trying to make.

We can't play them every single game, I agree. But it's very hard to have an impact on a game if you're not getting consistent game time. You need balance.

Playing against smaller teams are harder though. We fail to break those teams down. We've lost Suarez quality, Gerrard's declined and Coutinho is our only real source of creativity. Sterling helps a little too, but has a bad habit of being a little selfish. What are Ibe and Markovic going to do? There's less space for them to operate in, and we can't rely on them to somehow magically do what the rest of the players can't do. They're teenagers.

I see what you're saying, and I'm not saying you're wrong but the 20m should of been better spent.