Road to Reigns-tlemania - Official WWE Thread Part 20
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Re: Road to Reigns-tlemania - Official WWE Thread Part 20
by Onyx Wed Jan 28, 2015 3:25 pm
Yeh and he said that a few days before the rumble. Then on RAW he goes the Cena route with the 'You can cheer or boo whoever you want'. 
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Re: Road to Reigns-tlemania - Official WWE Thread Part 20
by Onyx Wed Jan 28, 2015 3:30 pm
Imagine if Reigns wasn't being pushed like superman and was a good wrestler. By good wrestler I mean someone in the mould of Sheamus/Lesnar.
Also imagine him not being a favourite for the rumble.
But...but... he was still crap on the mic and had no character.
He wins the rumble.
Would the IWC like him then?
Also imagine him not being a favourite for the rumble.
But...but... he was still crap on the mic and had no character.
He wins the rumble.
Would the IWC like him then?
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Re: Road to Reigns-tlemania - Official WWE Thread Part 20
by izzy Wed Jan 28, 2015 3:33 pm
Yohan Modric wrote:Imagine if Reigns wasn't being pushed like superman and was a good wrestler. By good wrestler I mean someone in the mould of Sheamus/Lesnar.
Also imagine him not being a favourite for the rumble.
But...but... he was still crap on the mic and had no character.
He wins the rumble.
Would the IWC like him then?
Yes, they would. His name is Cesaro.
(though Cesaro has character and is meh on the mic)
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Re: Road to Reigns-tlemania - Official WWE Thread Part 20
by Onyx Wed Jan 28, 2015 4:22 pm
Goat entrance. 
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Re: Road to Reigns-tlemania - Official WWE Thread Part 20
by RealGunner Wed Jan 28, 2015 4:26 pm
Holy shit that's amazing.
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Re: Road to Reigns-tlemania - Official WWE Thread Part 20
by M99 Wed Jan 28, 2015 5:25 pm
Cesaro got over with his amazing wrestling skills and Real American theme. Reigns does not have half his wrestling skill.
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Re: Road to Reigns-tlemania - Official WWE Thread Part 20
by Casciavit Wed Jan 28, 2015 5:53 pm
MT thoughts on Rollins' GOAT performance in the triple threat?
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Re: Road to Reigns-tlemania - Official WWE Thread Part 20
by Onyx Wed Jan 28, 2015 6:31 pm
Was a good performance. Always said he was good in the ring, just needs to work on his persona and mic skills imo.
Then again if WWE can have Rollins main event a top 2 PPV and Reigns main event WM, then who cares about mic skills, persona or even in ring skills.
In b4 Adrian Neville is inducted into the Hall of Fame this year.
Then again if WWE can have Rollins main event a top 2 PPV and Reigns main event WM, then who cares about mic skills, persona or even in ring skills.
In b4 Adrian Neville is inducted into the Hall of Fame this year.
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Re: Road to Reigns-tlemania - Official WWE Thread Part 20
by Freeza Wed Jan 28, 2015 6:34 pm
It's hard for these wrestlers to show off their mic skills with Michael Bay level dialogue though.
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Re: Road to Reigns-tlemania - Official WWE Thread Part 20
by RealGunner Wed Jan 28, 2015 6:37 pm
Rollins has my respect for earning his way to the top. He built his character and worked on it. Wasn't spoonfed. Same with Ambrose.
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Re: Road to Reigns-tlemania - Official WWE Thread Part 20
by Freeza Wed Jan 28, 2015 6:40 pm
Reigns has a lot of talent, but the WWE are just to stupid to realise that nepotism only will make a push worse.
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Re: Road to Reigns-tlemania - Official WWE Thread Part 20
by RealGunner Wed Jan 28, 2015 6:50 pm
They ruined it by letting him keep the shield theme and attire.
He should have had his own character and gimmick, even if it was superman one. He has all the tools to improve and be a very good star. But he is way too green.
He should have had his own character and gimmick, even if it was superman one. He has all the tools to improve and be a very good star. But he is way too green.
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Re: Road to Reigns-tlemania - Official WWE Thread Part 20
by Onyx Wed Jan 28, 2015 6:50 pm
Just need to read these goat posts from Russo about characters/storylines. Pure wrestling matches don't draw.
- Characters:
- As part two of this series continues, we take a much closer look at what may very well be at the crux of the WWE’s problem when it comes to turning away the mass audience from their product—the overall lack of character development. When you look up and down the current WWE roster, which wrestlers actually have a personality, or character, that the casual wrestling fan could invest in, thus committing them to actually care about that performer. In other words, who has the WWE built “character wise” that the casual fan can buy into.
Wrestling has created such a rich catalogue of characters throughout the years, tracing all the way back to the beginning with over the top personalities such as “Gorgeous George” and the barefooted Antonino Rocca. Wrestling was built on characters that were larger than life. The backbone of wrestling was structured through the idea of pulling on the emotions of its viewers. Give them reason to either boo, or cheer somebody. That type of emotion isn’t built through a wrestling match, it’s built through the wrestlers IN the wrestling match.
For decades it’s been all about the personalities. From my grandfather through my own kids. You were drawn to a particular wrestler because you had feelings towards him/her, one way, or another. And, how were those feelings created? They were created by forming a personality for that particular star, a personality that was different from everybody else. When Jake Roberts showed up on your television every week—you KNEW who he was. Same goes for Piper, Bret Hart, HBK, Hogan, and on, and on, and on. These characters were CLEARLY defined, through the way they dressed, talked, interacted with others, WRESTLED, and perhaps more importantly the way that they carried themselves when in that superstar persona. But, make no mistake s about it, each wrestler couldn’t have created that persona on their own. They needed the tools from those in creative at the time. They needed to be put into positions where their characters would come across with overwhelming force! Austin drove a beer truck into the arena for a reason, Mick Foley abducted Vince McMahon for a reason, “The Rock” looked at Faarooq a certain way for a reason. There were a series of Val Venus vignettes before you ever saw him . . . for a reason. Goldust recited movie quotes for a reason, DX drove a rocket launcher to WCW’s backdoor for a reason. In all cases that reason was to BUILD THEIR CHARACTERS. To make these individuals unique, to make them stand out, to make YOU care about them.
Somehow, once the Attitude Era passed on, the WWE lost this fine art. They forgot how to create stars and build wrestlers. They rely now more on the in-ring product, the part of the show that the casual wrestling fans care the least about. They started listening to the internet. They let the dirt sheets begin to determine what their product needed to be based on what THEY wanted. The only problem with that is the FACT that they are the very small minority when it comes to who is actually watching wrestling—or, used to watch wrestling, any way. Casual wrestling fans–in general–doen’t even know the Internet Wrestling Community exits.
What is a pre-tape today? The “Authority” making a match in their office? A hot chick with a mic interviewing Roman Reigns? Where are the vignettes that were built for weeks, and weeks and weeks? Remember Double J’s gold tooth sparking straight from Music City months before you ever saw him. Now, you have “New Day” signing with a choir for 2 weeks. OK. And, that does what for who? Because these guys are part of a church choir I can’t wait to see them on RAW—even though I’ve already seen them and they weren’t gospel singers prior? Ouy Vey.
Here’s a perfect example. Let’s look at the top three workers in the WWE right now. Dolph Ziggler, Dean Ambrose and Seth Rollins. All OUTSTANDING wrestlers, nobody can deny that, but—when you look at their characters—who are they? Why should casual wrestling fans really care about them?
DOLPH ZIGGLER–Who is he? We know he’s a great wrestler, and looks good, but beyond that, why is he different from everybody else. What storyline does he currently have that is building a case for his character? What is drawing me to this guy? To the casual fan it’s not his work rate because the casual fan is not a WRESTLING FAN.
SETH ROLLINS–Another great worker. OK, who is he? “Mr. Money in the Bank” because he won a briefcase in a match? “The Future of Professional Wrestling” because Triple H said so? Where is his story? Who is he? Why should I care? This is where the backstage element is drastically missing in wrestling today. The backstage was used to build characters and stories. For cryin’ out loud, you knew who even the MEAN STREET POSSE were!!!
DEAN AMBROSE–Great wrestler. Packs a mean slime exploding briefcase. Keep him away from mustard and ketchup dispensers. He’s a ‘lunatic” and “crazy” because he sticks out his tongue a lot. Are you serious? Where’s his interaction with other wrestlers outside of the wrestling ring? Why do him and Bray Wyatt only cross paths in the arena? They have to see each other in then back . . . don’t they.
And, now more than ever wrestlers like the three just mentioned, desperately need to be crafted, created and defined, because the WWE is fast tracking them to main event status, when based on the package we’re seeing they should be somewhere around mid-card level. Come on, are you going to put Brock Lesnar in the same ring with a Dean Ambrose and have people actually believe that Ambrose could beat him? Same with Rollins and Cena. On his best day Rollins could never beat Cena. Part of that is not only physical, but part of it is that Lesnar and Cena are stars due to them having CHARACTERS. We KNOW who they are when we see them. We either root, or cheer, based on the characters that have been created for them. The only problem in both the WWE and TNA right now is for every one character that you care about, there are 10 that you don’t. Who is Cesaro? Who is Austin Aries? Who is Jack Swagger? I know who Kurt Angle is.
If you don’t have compelling characters, the casual wrestling fans WILL NOT WATCH YOUR PRODUCT. It doesn’t matter HOW GOOD the wrestling match is. The casual wrestling fan doesn’t remember Savage/Steamboat WM III like the hard-core wrestling fans do, they remember the “Macho King”, Damien gnawing on the Macho Man’s arm, and the conflict that was Hulk, Savage and Miss Elizabeth. That’s what they remember. All stories built around their unique characters. No different than any other television show that the casual TV viewer watches. They watched Seinfeld for Kramer, George and Newman, they watch “South Park” to see what Cartman’s going to say this week. They watched “Jersey Shore” in droves to see what kind of trouble those Chuckleheads were going to get themselves into this week. And, even those characters were built. We knew more about “The Situation” then we do Seth Rollins—trust me.
Until the wrestling business re-visits it’s roots, and goes back to square one, they are never going to truly understand what brought them to the dance in the first place. Somewhere along the lines . . . they’ve forgotten. Think about this–looking at the merch sales from the Attitude Era compared to today, one would have to think that even with rising prices and internet sales, the WWE is nowhere close to selling t-shirts and toys (units) as it was back then. Compared to “Austin 3:16″ tees, how many “Lunatic Fringe” ones are you seeing? My point—sales/viewers are down across the board because your casual wrestling fan DOES NOT BUY INTO WRESTLING MATCHES! They buy into people. They buy into personalities. They buy into CHARACTERS.
Man, it’s really not that hard to understand.
- Storylines:
- Television shows are built on two things—characters and storyline. In fact, it’s impossible to have a successful television show even if you have one . . . without the other. Popular shows in today’s culture such as Breaking Bad, The Walking Dead and Sons of Anarchy, all thrive on the combination of characters and story. Even reality shows depend on that one-two punch to deliver healthy ratings every week. Last week, in part two of this series we covered why the lack of characters in wrestling are forcing the masses away from the product. Tonight, we will look at how non-existent storylines will continue to keep them away once they’ve already hit the highway.
Yes, I have to talk about the Attitude Era, because that’s where my WWE experience comes from. When Ed Ferrara and myself wrote TV, it was real simple—build to the next pay-per-view by using every segment, of every show, to get your characters and the STORIES they were involved in OVER. Everybody had a story, regardless of how high, or low you were on the card. Go back and watch some of the shows from that era on the WWE Network, you will NEVER find one, single, cold match on any of those episodes. Every match meant something and had meaning, all leading to the blow-off at the pay-per-view.
Now, in order to prove my point, let me dissect tonight’s episode of RAW as it relates to story, and by STORY I mean some kind of personal issue between the combatants—not them wrestling because they’ve wrestled prior. That does not consist of a story.
Rollins vs. Cena—STORY—Rollins has heat with John Cena because Cena was responsible for the exit of “The Authority”. I think it’s fair to say, that story is weak . . . at best.
Fandango vs. Jack Swagger-–STORY—NONE
Adam Rose vs. R-Truth—STORY—NONE—If the WWE wants to say that the story is Rose and Peter Cottontail, I’ll give that to them because they’re going to need it.
Big Show vs. Roman Reigns—STORY—NONE
Brie vs. Natalya—STORY—NONE
Los Matadores/El Torito vs. Goldust/Stardust—STORY—NONE
Luke Harper vs. Jack Swagger—STORY—NONE
Rusev/Ryback—STORY—NONE
Six Diva Tag Match—STORY—NONE
Miz vs. Jay Uso—STORY—Jay’s brother Jimmy is mad at the Miz for trying to set his wife Naomi up with an agent—weak at best.
Bray Wyatt vs. Dean Ambrose—STORY—There was a hologram at the beginning, then something about Dean’s father being in prison, then eventually . . . NOTHING.
When you look at that over the course of one three-hour show—isn’t that mind-boggling?
Again, we are talking about the MASS AUDIENCE here. Not the die-hard wrestling fans, but television viewers who turn into episodic television shows because they get hooked on the characters and STORIES. How are you supposed to get hooked on the stories in professional wrestling if they are NON-EXISTENT? Look at tonight’s show—everything you need to know is RIGHT THERE. What hooked the audience? What did they miss if they weren’t able to watch the show? What is the cliff hanger that is bringing them back next week? NOTHING IS THERE. Just a wrestling show with cold match, after cold match, with the majority of them meaning NOTHING.
At this rate, and by putting out this type of product, the WWE will NEVER win back the MILLIONS of viewers that they’ve managed to lose since the Attitude Era. Those television viewers are LONG GONE, and it’s nobody’s fault outside of the person who’s writing the show these days.
Who knows . . . maybe Vince McMahon needs a filter.
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Re: Road to Reigns-tlemania - Official WWE Thread Part 20
by Casciavit Wed Jan 28, 2015 7:04 pm
Nah I agree. Wrestling without a story behind it is boring. Most recent case was the Ambrose-Wyatt feud. WTF were they even feuding about? They were trying to kill each other, but we had no idea why
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Re: Road to Reigns-tlemania - Official WWE Thread Part 20
by RealGunner Wed Jan 28, 2015 7:10 pm
Same with Bray-Jericho feud.
Terrible feud.
Terrible feud.
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Re: Road to Reigns-tlemania - Official WWE Thread Part 20
by izzy Wed Jan 28, 2015 7:12 pm
RealGunner wrote:Same with Bray-Jericho feud.
Terrible feud.
I think that feud was an attempt to keep Bray relevant with the fans.
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Re: Road to Reigns-tlemania - Official WWE Thread Part 20
by Jay29 Wed Jan 28, 2015 7:27 pm
Storylines and story telling are very important. If WWE's story telling hadn't been so awful, the Rumble would not have gotten the reaction that it did.
Bryan getting knocked out by Wyatt, only for Wyatt to be eliminated in such a boring manner by Show and Kane = crap story telling. If you're going to have Wyatt do something as significant as eliminating the big fan favourite, then he either needs to win the whole thing or be eliminated in a way that doesn't just make him a footnote.
Show and Kane eliminating Ziggler and Ambrose so that Reigns could look good defeating the bad guys = boring and predictable story telling. I've said before that the remaining three or four people in the Rumble should all be legitimate contenders; guys who could actually go on to be in the main event. Failing that, they need to be guys people actually care about. Who gave a damn about Show and Kane? Nobody. Both came out and hardly got a reaction from a crowd that was crapping on everything.
Bryan getting knocked out by Wyatt, only for Wyatt to be eliminated in such a boring manner by Show and Kane = crap story telling. If you're going to have Wyatt do something as significant as eliminating the big fan favourite, then he either needs to win the whole thing or be eliminated in a way that doesn't just make him a footnote.
Show and Kane eliminating Ziggler and Ambrose so that Reigns could look good defeating the bad guys = boring and predictable story telling. I've said before that the remaining three or four people in the Rumble should all be legitimate contenders; guys who could actually go on to be in the main event. Failing that, they need to be guys people actually care about. Who gave a damn about Show and Kane? Nobody. Both came out and hardly got a reaction from a crowd that was crapping on everything.
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Re: Road to Reigns-tlemania - Official WWE Thread Part 20
by M99 Wed Jan 28, 2015 8:06 pm
izzy wrote:RealGunner wrote:Same with Bray-Jericho feud.
Terrible feud.
I think that feud was an attempt to keep Bray relevant with the fans.
Cas told me WWE planned for Punk to feud with Bray after he was done with Cena (done with Cena burying him) and after Punk left they bought Jericho to feud with Bray. That makes sense but it's no excuse for them to not bring a proper story.
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Re: Road to Reigns-tlemania - Official WWE Thread Part 20
by izzy Wed Jan 28, 2015 10:32 pm
The IWC is getting blamed for the reaction and backlash Reigns and WWE is receiving.
He was BOOED out of the ARENA during a LIVE EVENT, one that happens to be their 2nd BIGGEST PPV. FANS were in attendance.
OT: IWC? Who DOESEN'T use the Internet?
He was BOOED out of the ARENA during a LIVE EVENT, one that happens to be their 2nd BIGGEST PPV. FANS were in attendance.
OT: IWC? Who DOESEN'T use the Internet?
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Re: Road to Reigns-tlemania - Official WWE Thread Part 20
by Tomwin Lannister Wed Jan 28, 2015 11:01 pm
WWE the only 'business' that not only alienates it's customers but actively takes shots at them 
Pathetic. Oh, I know what will improve our image and help us to gain new fans/customers. Let's blame them for criticising our shit decisions, because that's much better than taking it on board and sorting our *bleep* show out.
Pathetic. Oh, I know what will improve our image and help us to gain new fans/customers. Let's blame them for criticising our shit decisions, because that's much better than taking it on board and sorting our *bleep* show out.
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Re: Road to Reigns-tlemania - Official WWE Thread Part 20
by Onyx Wed Jan 28, 2015 11:05 pm
http://fat.gfycat.com/FoolhardyHandmadeBorderterrier.gif
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Re: Road to Reigns-tlemania - Official WWE Thread Part 20
by Onyx Wed Jan 28, 2015 11:08 pm
http://scontent-b.cdninstagram.com/hphotos-xaf1/t51.2885-15/s306x306/e15/10948738_1584888288390464_635604527_n.jpg
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Re: Road to Reigns-tlemania - Official WWE Thread Part 20
by M99 Wed Jan 28, 2015 11:25 pm
Suspension of Disbelief: WWE Thinks Roman Reigns Is Its Next Big Star, No Matter What Fans Say
http://grantland.com/the-triangle/wwe-royal-rumble-roman-reigns-boos-the-rock-vince-mcmahon-brock-lesnar-wrestlemania/
10/10 article. Hits the nail in the head without any personal bias on display. Just facts.
http://grantland.com/the-triangle/wwe-royal-rumble-roman-reigns-boos-the-rock-vince-mcmahon-brock-lesnar-wrestlemania/
10/10 article. Hits the nail in the head without any personal bias on display. Just facts.
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Re: Road to Reigns-tlemania - Official WWE Thread Part 20
by Onyx Wed Jan 28, 2015 11:43 pm
If Reigns follows Rocky Maivia's transformation to the Rock, his next step is to join the new day and turn heel.
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Re: Road to Reigns-tlemania - Official WWE Thread Part 20
by M99 Thu Jan 29, 2015 12:36 am
http://pwtalk.net/cgi-bin/protect.cgi?File=9V8wAv7r.html
Awesome stuff Wrestlemania 30 was such a memorable event, it was great to see the legends backstage chilling out
Awesome stuff
Wrestlemania 30 was such a memorable event, it was great to see the legends backstage chilling out
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Re: Road to Reigns-tlemania - Official WWE Thread Part 20
by Onyx Thu Jan 29, 2015 1:13 am
What. 
Dave Meltzer on Current Plan for Daniel Bryan's Wrestlemania Match
Bryan and Ziggler set up a match on Twitter, and that wasn’t fooling around, but the actual plan, so that’s the top six right there.
When he says top six, he is referring to the top 6 Mania Matches
Reigns/Lesnar
Sting/HHH
Taker/Wyatt
Cena/Rusev
Rollins/Orton
Bryan/Ziggler
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