Roberto Firmino

RealGunner wrote:Payet has 4 assists and 1 goal in his last 5 apps. He is hardly to be blamed for West Ham's form

He's put in a few crosses in matches West Ham have lost 4 - 2 and scored a free-kick against Accrington. He's done his luxury bit. The thing is, when he was playing for France in the summer, he was so active, getting on the ball all the time, running, passing, shooting, creating. He was like a kid in a candy store. Now he's back at West Ham and he's only coming alive a few times in a match. I watched until 2 - 0 against Soton yesterday and Payet was just walking about. Last season's Payet was looking to grab games by the neck, this season's Payet looks happy to wait for the ball to drop for him, do a little something and then go back to walking about. He's simply playing awful right now and a few assists from crosses doesn't change that.

I had a look at his stats and it seems the not so active PL 16/17 Payet plays more passes per game than in the EC, creates more chances, dribbles more players, is fouled more often, is dispossesed less often, takes more shots and plays more crosses

But I agree with Hans, this should be in a thread about Payet.

zigra wrote:I had a look at his stats and it seems the not so active PL 16/17 Payet plays more passes per game than in the EC, creates more chances, dribbles more players, is fouled more often, is dispossesed less often, takes more shots and plays more crosses

But I agree with Hans, this should be in a thread about Payet.

If that's true, it's yet more evidence why watching games tells actually more than checking out stats. Payet has simply been a luxury player this season.

Firmino has always been better than Payet. Not really sure why that was ever a question.

Curtinho wrote:Firmino has always been better than Payet. Not really sure why that was ever a question.

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2016/02/10/10/308208E400000578-0-image-a-23_1455101764450.jpg

http://i0.wp.com/4.bp.blogspot.com/-iH8d8K5FNBM/VyxIVlj5PrI/AAAAAAAAGB0/UU0KsYzDWFsJGffhIGCZsOaTYNKqW4OcACLcB/s1600/firmino.gif

Curtinho wrote:Firmino has always been better than Payet. Not really sure why that was ever a question.

Now let's wait  for a non-liverpool fan to agree with you .

Spoiler:

I mean, it's not like your French bias has anything to do with it but do you really wanna play that card?

Its not french bias, its common sense that Firmino hasnt always been better than Payet.

Payet has only became relevant / well known in the last 2 years (last season and his last season in Ligue 1). He was only decent in football manager with not much to show in the real world before then.

They've been somewhat similar in those last 2 years.

Payet is better because offers more on the ball, BUT:

Payet is like 5 years older than Firmino lol. That's a lot, Payet was nothing at 24. He's turning 30 this year?

Lets hope for France's sake he maintains this peak for another 2 years because if i look at this comparison of achievement at ages, Firmino will comfortably overtake him without even trying too hard.

And even if i look at the histories, Both players have nothing of note, Firmino has scored about 30 goals in 70 games while Payet has managed two Ligue 1 team XI's.

Shite comparison basically.

Just because Messi, Suarez and Ronaldo etc score in like every game does not mean 30 goals in 70 games is poor lol. What's his record like under Klopp if you don't mind me asking?

Regardless that's actually a really good record, especially when you factor in that he's more playmaker than finisher. He's pretty much replacing Luis Suarez influence in the final third for us, and that's not an easy thing to do. He's not there yet with the goals, but his passes, movement, his press and leadership is second to none in our final third atm. And he's still only 24. The age Luis Suarez came to Anfield.

Payet doesn't even offer more on the ball. His stats are inflated because he takes all the set pieces for a team that is built to be successful off of set pieces. From open play Firmino is decisively better. Not only is he just as creative and effective on the ball he's miles better off the ball in terms of pressing, intelligent movement and ball recovery.

Payet is a good player though.

Red Alert wrote:I mean, it's not like your French bias has anything to do with it but do you really wanna play that card?

Was it french bias when i said Ribery didn't deserve the Ballon d'or when everybody here beleived he did ? or when i said ( mistakenly ) that Hazard is better and has a higher ceiling than Griezmann two years ago ? I'll admit to a Lyon bias, but i'm far from being biased toward french players in general .

You guys on the other hand? you have this assertive and arrogant belief that each Liverpool player is either the most promising youngster in the world or the best in his position already .

farfan wrote:
You guys on the other hand? you have this assertive and arrogant belief that each Liverpool player is either the most promising youngster in the world or the best in his position already .

So being better than Payet now makes you the best in your position now?

No one is saying Firmino is best in the world. They are just saying he's better than Payet.

Gotta agree with farfan here, about pool fans especially mckneejerk aka don't call me clueless, remember a Suarezless pool still had enough quality to beat defending cl champs RM, then they ended up going out in the group stages .

pool fans every time their players are decent they have to prop them up to crazy heights for some reason... best this or most potential that, give the players couple season at least.

you know your club has over reacting fans when madrid fans are having a dig at it

Don't call me James wrote:

farfan wrote:
You guys on the other hand? you have this assertive and arrogant belief that each Liverpool player is either the most promising youngster in the world or the best in his position already .

So being better than Payet now makes you the best in your position now?

No one is saying Firmino is best in the world. They are just saying he's better than Payet.

Almost sure I read Liverpool fans writing here that he is on par with Sanchez and Ozil, and could be the best player in the league as early as this year.

Ozil an Sanchez aren't the best at anything either.

I was the one who said that. I said Ozil and Sanchez are no better than Coutinho and Firmino. Which I believe in 100%.

Never said the best in the league though. As long as Aguero is around it's not much you can do.

Ozil had 20+ assists last year and probably would have cracked 30 if it wasn't for Giroud's form going to complete and utter shite.

Neither player is anywhere near him, Sanchez had a meh season last year so we'll see but considering his body of work they don't really have a case over him either.

I'm not surprised at all though.

Valkyrja wrote:Ozil at this point is easily the best player in PL.

Aguero

okay

I was the one who said Firmino could be the best player in the PL as early as this year. I stand by that comment.

Ozil is more creative but Firmino brings a better overall game and is a bigger goal threat. I could go into a really long discussion about it and their relative impact on the pitch but I don't have time right now. All I can say is that a player like Firmino is a bit underrated ATM by most fans.

Curtinho wrote:

Ozil is more creative but Firmino brings a better overall game and is a bigger goal threat.

You can say that about a lot of players compared to Ozil but it doesn't mean they are better. He just happens to be so exceptional at what he does.

ozil is a top player but has anyone ever seen him get MOTM when his team have lost the game.

Ozil