Scotland Independence Thread

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Post by RealGunner Sat Sep 06, 2014 10:27 pm

So it's 12 days before the referendum.

The current votes suggests that it will be 52% YES to independence. However it's extremely close and can go either way.

Was discussing with Jonathan the other day and he was right that more and more people are going to vote YES as the date approaches purely for the patriotic reasons. I would be shocked if half voting actually read any of the debates for it.

My personal view as a British national is that I would really prefer Scotland to be a part of the UK, purely based on sentiments. But I fully understand if Scotland wants independence because of how the government runs the UK.

However I am not sure if Scotland would be able to hold it at their own. It's very possible they request a bailout by the UN or IMF soon enough. Let's hope not though.

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Post by ProXima Sun Sep 07, 2014 10:44 am

Scotland Independence means disconnect from criminal organization called European Union. I hope that will work out.

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Post by DagenhamDave Sun Sep 07, 2014 1:10 pm

personally I would like the union to remain intact, but the scots don't want to be governed by London anymore so they'll get their independence join the EU then be governed from Brussels. Makes sense.
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Post by Art Morte Sun Sep 07, 2014 3:22 pm

Doesn't really matter to me, but I've always seen the UK as one family and I'd like it to stay like that.

What comes to patriotic reasons, I think everyone already see Scotland as Scotland, meaning that they don't need independence to gain their own identity, they already have that in everyone's eyes.

As for rational reasons, perhaps it would be better for them if they were not governed by Westminster. At least it would guarantee that taxes raised in Scotland would be spent on Scotland, too. However, there are those questions that what currency would an independent Scotland have and what impact independence would have on their economy. Also some big questions on how do you draw an independent Scotland's budget, what changes do you make? What about all things military?

I hope the No vote wins as I don't believe grass would start growing noticeably greener in an independent Scotland and if it doesn't, there's no point in Scotland's independence, would only make things more complicated and possibly even leave Scotland in a poorer position if some time in the future they could use the UK's bigger power.
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Post by Nishankly Sun Sep 07, 2014 6:24 pm

Will i have to apply for a separate visa to visit Scotland? That's all i pretty much care about in this issue tbh.
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Post by RealGunner Sun Sep 07, 2014 6:33 pm

Yea
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Post by Tomwin Lannister Sun Sep 07, 2014 6:39 pm

Watched Kevin Bridges and other Comedians on a show last night doing stand up about this rofl
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Post by iftikhar Sun Sep 07, 2014 7:31 pm

I haven't followed this issue and have no idea about what's driving either side. Could it be that it's a fall-out of the First-Past-the Post (FPP) election system??? UK is among the few (very, very few) countries that operates under parliamentary system who still uses this obsolete and rather useless system. It never gives the ethnic or political blocks the proper representation and most often the ruling block governs with minority verdict.
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Post by McAgger Sun Sep 07, 2014 8:25 pm

Scotland Independence Thread 2a7v1jt
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Post by McLewis Sun Sep 07, 2014 11:32 pm

Historically, Scotland have been fighting for independence for just under a millenia now. To achieve that after so much bloodshed over the centuries as well as to do it without said bloodshed would be a momentous occasion.

Personally, I tend to lean towards independence for nations who have proven they can support and defend themselves. I think Scotland are certainly capable of doing that.

Wishing them the best of luck in this endeavor.
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Post by VendettaRed07 Mon Sep 08, 2014 4:35 am

Scotland Independence Thread Yesscotland3
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Post by DuringTheWar Mon Sep 08, 2014 7:19 am

@McLewis wrote:Historically, Scotland have been fighting for independence for just under a millenia now. To achieve that after so much bloodshed over the centuries as well as to do it without said bloodshed would be a momentous occasion.


Did you mean to say; "51%" of Scotland have been fighting for independence for a millennia
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Post by Tomwin Lannister Mon Sep 08, 2014 12:03 pm

@DuringTheWar wrote:
@McLewis wrote:Historically, Scotland have been fighting for independence for just under a millenia now. To achieve that after so much bloodshed over the centuries as well as to do it without said bloodshed would be a momentous occasion.


Did you mean to say; "51%" of Scotland have been fighting for independence for a millennia





Thought it was pretty obvious that a vast, vast majority of Scotland wanted independence a long time ago

Not just the current alleged 51% on the 2014 polls
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Post by Robespierre Mon Sep 08, 2014 12:50 pm

I am still surprised that it was allowed to " legalize" this referendum. We live in a world not so opened to these possibilities ... But anyway  , it is democracy

I wonder  what money would adopt Scotland if it gets the indipendence  hmm It will remain with pound ( but it 'd look as a countersense tbf) or it will try to get the Euro ? ( ffs , downgrade, don't try this at home )
Anyway I hope it will issue a large result from this referendum, I mean the worst thing for Scotland would be a " yes"  voted just by 51 % of ppl  . For a similar decision , the most important change for a country , needs of a most solid result. Probably I ' d raised the quorum but this would have sounded as anti-democratic I suppose ( it was similar for Italy when he passed to Republic in '46 , got for few votes but anyway it can 't be same thing, a change of democratic order , although it is important, can't be compared to an   Indipendence - even more important  in this difficult economic moment   )
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Post by Tomwin Lannister Mon Sep 08, 2014 12:52 pm

Imo Scotland will do fine. A lot of people have written about why Scotland will in fact be better off financially on it's own. I hope it goes through.

Would ask my relatives in Scotland how they feel about it but cba would rather talk about food and football
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Post by Robespierre Mon Sep 08, 2014 1:32 pm

Regardless of result I think Salmond made a brillant job.
He developed a political campaign not exceeding in nationalism or Anti-english sentiments, but he talked about economy,society etc in tv. Not William Wallace or similar things but Facts .
Far away from other European nationalist leaders
If Scotland will get the indipendence it I will give much credit to him.
On the other hand who could really thinking that "the Yes " is favorite to win when just 10 days miss for this referendum?
I remind the "no" definitely favorite 2 years ago for example.
Contrarily Cameron is living these 10 days so scared , he has everything to lose , he can be reminded as the PM who lost the Scotland. An English PM hadn't worst nightmares since Sirius Black escaped from prison.
My sensation is that England needs of Scotland ( oil ... ) , and Scotland needs of England (financings etc) , but neither of the two will admit it. Never.
Anyway I think this is the last chance for Scotland to get the indipendence, I think even if " The No " will win just with 51% Scotland will not get another referendum in future. Or at least we won't talk about this for much time , as it was after the failed Scottish devolution referendum 1979.
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Post by Jonathan28 Tue Sep 09, 2014 1:48 am

We'll see how it goes, everybody I know, except my dad, is voting "Yes", and it seems to be the way the wind is blowing.

The "No" campaign really messed things up, getting Ed Milliband involved was stupid, they really need to shut him up, Alistar Darling has no idea what he's doing, and, if the "No" campaign know what's good for them, they'll think twice before sending David Cameron north of the border again.

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Post by VivaStPauli Tue Sep 09, 2014 1:06 pm

@ProXima wrote:Scotland Independence means disconnect from criminal organization called European Union. I hope that will work out.


I will put 5 euros on Scotland immediately integrating further into the EU than England ever has, and another 5 euros on Scotland joining the Eurozone within 10 years.
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Post by BeautifulGame Tue Sep 09, 2014 6:51 pm

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/sep/09/cameron-clegg-miliband-emergency-visit-scotland

Screwing urselves up panic button lol
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Post by RedOranje Tue Sep 09, 2014 9:01 pm

Due purely to academic curiosity I'd like to see the vote pass and Scotland gain their independence. It would be quite intriguing to see how relations changed and how Scotland and the UK changed following such a move.
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Post by DuringTheWar Wed Sep 10, 2014 1:50 am

@Tomwin Lannister wrote:
@DuringTheWar wrote:
@McLewis wrote:Historically, Scotland have been fighting for independence for just under a millenia now. To achieve that after so much bloodshed over the centuries as well as to do it without said bloodshed would be a momentous occasion.


Did you mean to say; "51%" of Scotland have been fighting for independence for a millennia




Thought it was pretty obvious that a vast, vast majority of Scotland wanted independence a long time ago

Not just the current alleged 51% on the 2014 polls


I was simply highlighting the irony. I like pointing out irony.
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Post by RedOranje Wed Sep 10, 2014 2:02 am

@DuringTheWar wrote:
@Tomwin Lannister wrote:
@DuringTheWar wrote:
@McLewis wrote:Historically, Scotland have been fighting for independence for just under a millenia now. To achieve that after so much bloodshed over the centuries as well as to do it without said bloodshed would be a momentous occasion.


Did you mean to say; "51%" of Scotland have been fighting for independence for a millennia




Thought it was pretty obvious that a vast, vast majority of Scotland wanted independence a long time ago

Not just the current alleged 51% on the 2014 polls


I was simply highlighting the irony. I like pointing out irony.


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Post by DuringTheWar Wed Sep 10, 2014 2:22 am

@RedOranje wrote:
@DuringTheWar wrote:
@Tomwin Lannister wrote:




Thought it was pretty obvious that a vast, vast majority of Scotland wanted independence a long time ago

Not just the current alleged 51% on the 2014 polls


I was simply highlighting the irony. I like pointing out irony.




I don't think I mean what you think I mean. Or, you just don't know what it means.
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Post by RedOranje Wed Sep 10, 2014 3:04 am

There's nothing ironic about what he posted. It is both factually and thematically accurate.
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Post by DuringTheWar Wed Sep 10, 2014 3:26 am

I was referring to the situation he described rather than his own comments being ironic. If you consider the history of Scotland, which he did, then consider the day they get independence, its by a predicted vote landslide of 1%, that's ironic right.
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