Scotland Independence Thread

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Post by DuringTheWar Wed Sep 10, 2014 3:26 am

I was referring to the situation he described rather than his own comments being ironic. If you consider the history of Scotland, which he did, then consider the day they get independence, its by a predicted vote landslide of 1%, that's ironic right.

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Post by RedOranje Wed Sep 10, 2014 4:02 am

@DuringTheWar wrote:I was referring to the situation he described rather than his own comments being ironic. If you consider the history of Scotland, which he did, then consider the day they get independence, its by a predicted vote landslide of 1%, that's ironic right.

Ah, I misinterpreted your comment. My mistake.
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Post by Robespierre Wed Sep 10, 2014 11:22 pm

This referendum will decree not only the future of Scotland, but also that of Labour Party anyway imo.
The Scotland is a crucial stronghold of Labour Party . Always an impressive contribution of votes.
if UK loses the Scotland, the Labour Party risks seriously to die.
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Post by BarrileteCosmico Thu Sep 11, 2014 4:00 am

It seems to me that if Scotland wanted out it shouldn't really be down to a 1% margin, things this important need a super majority (3/5 at least imo).

Anyways if they go through, and want to join the EU, they will have to give up the pound for the euro. Not a smart move imo.
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Post by BarrileteCosmico Thu Sep 11, 2014 4:04 am

@VivaStPauli wrote:
@ProXima wrote:Scotland Independence means disconnect from criminal organization called European Union. I hope that will work out.


I will put 5 euros on Scotland immediately integrating further into the EU than England ever has, and another 5 euros on Scotland joining the Eurozone within 10 years.
All new members of the EU are required to join the eurozone so it's really just one bet.

http://ftalphaville.ft.com/2014/09/10/1963991/scotland-and-sterling-whose-currency-is-it-anyway/ (loginwall, but can be accessed through google)
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Post by halamadrid2 Fri Sep 12, 2014 1:09 pm

Salmond is wasting everyones time with fantasy dreams and empty promises that have all been debunked by experts. Come Thursday I am sure Scotland will still be in the UK
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Post by ProXima Sun Sep 14, 2014 8:34 am

@VivaStPauli wrote:
I will put 5 euros on Scotland immediately integrating further into the EU than England ever has, and another 5 euros on Scotland joining the Eurozone within 10 years.


Barroso told that reconnect independent Scotland to UE will be "extremely difficult". But who know what they really think, most politicians from EU commission are ordinary liars, thieves, incompetent morons etc. (Anyway, they fit to organisation perfectly).

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Post by RealGunner Mon Sep 15, 2014 7:27 pm

Had some rare motivational moment so did some reading.

Scottish people are being lied heavily about their economical situation by Alex Salmond. He is either sweeping it all away or he is just not letting people hear the truth. I really think that patriotism is getting over people's rational judgement. I am not bothered if Scotland gets independence. But I am bothered about my Scottish friends being lied to and eventually getting deceived once the independence takes place.

Salmond could have increased the spending power of NHS for the last 3 years. Didn't do it. He is one of the biggest reason NHS is in this state atm. NHS is done if Scotland is independent and Scottish people themselves weren't even aware of this. NHS is as much part of Scotland as it is to England. Salmon hilariously tried to call it nonsense but IFS has already refuted it.

http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2014/09/salmonds-nhs-claims-have-been-shredded-ifs

On the other hand, £27billion left the Scottish Financial System last week and Salmond once again sweeped that under the rug. Scotland will have a huge debt and deficit at the time of separation which would result in years of recession and unemploment. The YES movement have failed to address that to the Scottish people.

A good read about another of Salmond's policy which is dubious at best.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/economics-blog/2014/sep/14/independent-scotland-economic-global-ireland-new-zealand-struggles

Research by spread betting company Capital Spreads found that 65% of investors expect Scotland’s economy to be weaker five years after independence, falling to 63% after 10 years.

http://www.scotsman.com/business/scottish-independence-will-weaken-economy-1-3541825
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Post by Forza Tue Sep 16, 2014 5:27 am

The No campaign seems to be almost entirely fear-based instead of trying to remind Scots of the good reasons to stay together.
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Post by halamadrid2 Tue Sep 16, 2014 1:46 pm

Only the politicians want Scotland to stay and that's because most of the big two's (Labour and Tories) MPs are Scottish. The rest are indifferent because be it Scotland are in the UK or not they will still pay taxes through their noses and get nothing in return.

Scotland blame their unemployment crisis on Westminister Laughing when they get more money the rest of the uk and contributing the least. Most of the big companies in Scotland such as RBS want to relocate to England if Scotland become independent. Says it all about Salmonds fantasy dreams tbh

Most of the experts that have called Salmond out for his lies aren't even English. The scots seem to think there is bias from the media and bbc against them but all they are doing is call the facts just because all the facts indicate Scotland will be worse off on its own does not mean they are biased

Salmond has no plans whatsoever post-independence. He thinks they will be able to keep the pound, join EU immediately and thinks they have infinity reserves of oil Laughing bless his soul. He will drag them into recession Spain style but in alot less time
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Post by Tomwin Lannister Tue Sep 16, 2014 5:27 pm

Scotland are in the top 15 wealthiest countries in the World. I fail to see how Scotland is going to collapse all of a sudden. If it was all bad news for Scotland I doubt David Cameron would be out begging the people to 'not leave'
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Post by halamadrid2 Tue Sep 16, 2014 5:40 pm

Scotland have included the north sea oil in that "estimate" which makes up most of the GDP. Fact is the oil is UKs and not Scottish so if they were to become independent the North sea oil won't be theirs.

This isn't even mentioning the fact that they won't be able to use the pound and hence will have to start from scratch. Scotland have a very small population compared to England so large share of the cash they get has been able to cover for all their needs if they become independent they will have to pay their own taxes, there won't be any of the free services they have now and with the unemployment crisis god knows who's going to pay their taxes

Also didn't UK bail Scotland out after they got themselves in mountain debt??

UK will be fine with or without Scotland and that's a fact.
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Post by Tomwin Lannister Tue Sep 16, 2014 6:03 pm

The North Sea oil will still be flowing long after we're gone, unless you believe the other side who have been telling people that it's going to run out at any minute for the last 40 years Laughing


Nobody said the UK would be in major trouble without Scotland. But the idea that Scotland are doomed because they want independence is ridiculous.
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Post by RealGunner Tue Sep 16, 2014 6:12 pm

@Forza wrote:The No campaign seems to be almost entirely fear-based instead of trying to remind Scots of the good reasons to stay together.

Agreed.

@Tomwin Lannister wrote:Scotland are in the top 15 wealthiest countries in the World. I fail to see how Scotland is going to collapse all of a sudden. If it was all bad news for Scotland I doubt David Cameron would be out begging the people to 'not leave'

Misleading stat.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-26614122

@halamadrid2 wrote:Scotland have included the north sea oil in that "estimate" which makes up most of the GDP. Fact is the oil is UKs and not Scottish so if they were to become independent the North sea oil won't be theirs.

This isn't even mentioning the fact that they won't be able to use the pound and hence will have to start from scratch. Scotland have a very small population compared to England so large share of the cash they get has been able to cover for all their needs if they become independent they will have to pay their own taxes, there won't be any of the free services they have now and with the unemployment crisis god knows who's going to pay their taxes

Also didn't UK bail Scotland out after they got themselves in mountain debt??

UK will be fine with or without Scotland and that's a fact.

The real truth about the North Sea Oil.

http://www.offshore-publication.com/index.php/projects/1518-north-sea-oil-giants-speak-out-against-scottish-independence

http://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2014/09/14/it-would-be-impossible-for-an-independent-scotland-to-establish-a-sovereign-oil-fund/


There is no denying that UK is stronger with Scotland in it, however there is also no denying that Scotland benefits far far far more with being part of the UK than the other way around. UK will recover in matter of years with any financial loss from Scotland being independent. But the NO campaign needs to realise that this referendum is forever. There is no going back. We all rather live together than becoming foreigners to each other.
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Post by RedOranje Tue Sep 16, 2014 7:41 pm

Hyperbolic at the end there, RG. In the EU no nation is really that "foreign" from another and the cultural ties that bind together the peoples of the British Isles will endure long beyond this vote, regardless of results (just as the animosities and issues that drive it and other independence movements remained long after the initial subjugation/combination of the peoples happened). The fact of the matter is, Scotland has everything it needs to succeed as an independent nation should it so desire, and while it may benefit both parties for Scotland to remain a part of the UK you should not and indeed CANNOT disregard the cultural and historical motivations at play.
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Post by RealGunner Thu Sep 18, 2014 11:33 pm

Scottish Referendum Poll Gives 'No' Camp Win By 54% To 46%

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014/09/18/scottish-referendum-poll-gives-no-win-by-54-to-46_n_5845930.html?utm_hp_ref=uk

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Post by Art Morte Fri Sep 19, 2014 7:13 am

I think it's good that Scotland voted 'no' - well, some 55% of Scotland did.

The Yes campaign's supporters seemed to be too much inspired by "independent identity" and patriotic feelings, but I thought that was unnecessary and misguided because Scotland already has as strong an identity as any nation on Earth. I also don't believe becoming totally independent would have made the grass greener in Scotland - from an economic point of view - so in the end it seemed to me that there were very few actually good reasons for Scotland to leave the UK.
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Post by Forza Fri Sep 19, 2014 8:52 am

I think the yes vote was always more about many Scots being dirt poor (apparently - I've never been there) than it was about a search for independent identity. Let's not pretend that the Scots had no reason to break away in the first place - you don't get all the way to a referendum without some strong basis for it occurring.

The question now will be how politicians can resolve the problems that the Scottish people continue to have there. If the situation is not remedied, there's nothing stopping another vote being held in say 7 years time.
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Post by halamadrid2 Fri Sep 19, 2014 10:35 am

The Scots wanted out because they felt they had "no say" in UK policies when in fact a good number of the MPs in Westminister are actually Scottish. They have their own assembly where they discuss "in-country" problems something England for ex do not have. Their government get a significant cut of money they can spend on anything but instead of spending it on helping young get into work, they spend it on a number of freebies like free prescriptions, free pension et al. People who live in England don't get that instead the money is spent on jobs, apprenticeships for those who don't like education and other pointless stuff like highspeed railway which nobody bar the politicians actually want

Salmond and his SNP cronies have tried to brainwash their people by claiming their hands are tied and Scotland will be better off making their own policies when that's an outright lie because if I am not mistaken Scottish MPs represent nearly HALF of the British parliament. Those are the ones choosing policies for Wales, NI, England and Scotland themselves. When there was a vote on tuition fees for people like me in ENGLAND these were the ones who voted and potentially swayed the yes vote. Funny thing is there is no tution fee in Scotland Laughing

If anyone has been hard done by it's the English imo who have no say in anything. It's funny how a country with 5 million in population have more say than a country with over 55 million.

SNP are like spoilt kids wanting more and more. I knew the Scots were too smart than to listen to Salmond and his lies


Last edited by halamadrid2 on Fri Sep 19, 2014 11:56 am; edited 1 time in total
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Post by rwo power Fri Sep 19, 2014 11:07 am

"I am your Fatherland!" Very Happy
Scotland Independence Thread - Page 2 Th-sco10

Source: http://www.watson.ch/Front/articles/409019318-%C2%ABI-am-your-Fatherland%C2%BB
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Post by McLewis Fri Sep 19, 2014 1:47 pm

So what must the Flemish, Basque, Kosovo, Catalan and other separatist movements be thinking about this result? Will be interesting to see who pushes on with their own fights after this.
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Post by rwo power Fri Sep 19, 2014 1:54 pm

Well, in German the Bavarian Party would like to separate Bavaria from the rest of Germany, but so far they only had rather moderate numbers. I guess it will stay this way.
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Post by RealGunner Fri Sep 19, 2014 6:04 pm

Scotland <3333333

United we stand cheers
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Post by Robespierre Fri Sep 19, 2014 8:05 pm

I wonder a thing ... but why this referendum was done for Scotland, and not for Ulster ? hmm
I thought Ulster aspired to unite with Eire.
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Post by RealGunner Mon Sep 22, 2014 9:41 pm

Surge in membership sees SNP overtake Lib Dems to become UK's 3rd-largest party

lol Lib Dems
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Post by iftikhar Tue Sep 23, 2014 8:29 am

@RealGunner wrote:Surge in membership sees SNP overtake Lib Dems to become UK's 3rd-largest party

lol Lib Dems
First Past the Post really sucks, UK should switch to Proportional Representations.
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