World cup final: Turning point in Messi's career

by _SuperFloren_ Mon Jul 14, 2014 1:45 pm

After the end of the world cup final and all the criticism towards to Messi, I think there is an inflection point in Messi's career. Noone will say Messi is the best player in history ever. He failed in his greatest moment. Noone will put him in the same conversation with Maradona or Pele. His position as GOAT is impossible now, but what about the best player of his generation?::

Germany as a champion dont have a real superstar player who can compete for Ballon dor 2014, then they dont have a legit contender for individual awards. Cristiano ronaldo had a record breaking season in the Champions league with 17 goals, winning the title and he won the golden boot of the european leagues. Ballon dor is a Messi vs CR battle, and Messi is off. Real Madrid is playing the club world cup in december, they will have the headlines. So, for me, CR7, third ballon dor is locked. In January 2015, the situation will probably be this:

Messi 4 ballon dors, 3 golden boots
CR 3 ballon dors, 3 golden boots

Messi 67 goals in champions league 3rd historic topscorer
CR 68 goals in champions league 2nd historic topscorer
Both will surpass Raul this year (71)

Watching Messi's current form, the signing of Suarez, and Real Madrid potential team in the next 2 years. What if CR7 ties Messi in ballon dors, and surpass him in golden boots and becomes the historic topscorer in the champions league? There is a high probability this will happen. Will CR be remembered as a bigger player than Messi in his generation? Or the hype on Messi is already impossible to surpass?

by Collblanc Mon Jul 14, 2014 1:49 pm

Harmonica, Valkryja and Zealous incoming in 3...2...1..

by _SuperFloren_ Mon Jul 14, 2014 1:55 pm

I add more, Cristiano Ronaldo will become the topscorer in Real Madrids history in a couple of years. Same as Messi in Barcelona, playing 5 less seasons in la Liga. With the signing of Suarez, I can see Messi playing more midfield football and dropping his scoring ability a little.

by Collblanc Mon Jul 14, 2014 2:13 pm

Agreed - the little man has lost his 99 finishing and needs to step up in our midfield.

by cyberman Mon Jul 14, 2014 3:36 pm

He doesn't do enaugh in midfield, plus he walks around the pitch like he's on a pleasant evening stroll.
If a psg bid over 100m barca would have to sell him

by Mr Nick09 Mon Jul 14, 2014 3:42 pm

cant wait when neuer wins the golden ball and messi and CR fans unite to hate on the germans Laughing

by cyberman Mon Jul 14, 2014 3:45 pm

Messi won the golden ball already..

by Mr Nick09 Mon Jul 14, 2014 3:51 pm

talking about ballon dor lol

by sk3ptical Mon Jul 14, 2014 3:52 pm

cyberman wrote:He doesn't do enaugh in midfield, plus he walks around the pitch like he's on a pleasant evening stroll.
If a psg bid over 100m barca would have to sell him

World cup final: Turning point in Messi's career 2rp8xfs

by Bellabong Mon Jul 14, 2014 4:46 pm

Messi is pretty much just another Ronaldinho eh?

by windkick Mon Jul 14, 2014 5:02 pm

Came in here to agree, that his is a turning point in Messi's career as he seems like the Guardiola era ran him dry and looks like he's not at his top A/elite level anymore but still class.

Instead I find out the thread is actually about Ronaldo's turning point in his career because of Messi's decline. Rename the thread then

For all you know Ronaldo's injuries also slow him down. he's also older than Messi. For all wel know World Cup will be a changing in the gaurd, and the messi/Ronaldo era will finally come to an end and give way for new super stars to take over.

by Zealous Mon Jul 14, 2014 6:20 pm

Can't really say at this point. However CR and Messi are all time greats regardless even if they decided to retire tomorrow.

I agree with Floren that next year could be a big year for Real Madrid (and Ronaldo by proxy) so it will be cool to see what happens.

@ Nick

Yeah the guy we put five goals past is not going to win the Balon D'Or lol

Neuer is a beast though no doubt.

by DeletedUser#1 Mon Jul 14, 2014 6:21 pm

Honestly, he is done.

If I were Barca, I'd sell him for a petra-oiled club for 200M before his decline gets even sharper, and build the team around Suarez and Neymar.

We;ll never see the best of Suarez/Neymar at Barca with Messi around. Barca kept Ronaldinho a year too much and he lost sooooo much value because of that, and I can see them making the same mistake with Messi.

by Zealous Mon Jul 14, 2014 6:38 pm

You shouldn't sell one of the best players you have ever had (and potentially all time top scorer) imo.

I mean it doesn't make sporting sense but clubs should never seriously consider selling one of it's icons.

If he wants to leave then that's a different story but otherwise I'd keep him no questions asked.

by RED Mon Jul 14, 2014 6:47 pm

Doesn't carry the same threat he used to. He still has moments of brilliance, but for large majority of the matches, he barely affects the match. He's def declining, imo.

by Harmonica Mon Jul 14, 2014 6:50 pm

Why is Fakenaldo in the same sentence with Messi? This was the turning point when Messi left Hairdresser in the dust, and now sits on top of Pele and Maradona. When Pele proves himself in Europe or wins a national league, and Maradona wins three CL's, or even proves himself in European football, they can be compared to Messi.

by Zealous Mon Jul 14, 2014 7:02 pm

^

Spoiler:

by shinigami99 Mon Jul 14, 2014 7:23 pm

I just think, he deserves one more season. I'll see how he does with Neymar and Suarez this season and then I'll make a decision based on that. His injury and fitness last season compounded on each other and maybe that's what is causing this seemingly lack of stamina. If Luis Enrique can't sort it out and it is a psychological problem then I would say it might be better to let him go if he wants and another team is willing to pay the appropriate amount (w/e that may be).

If it is a physiological problem, then I think he probably needs to take a break from football for a while. It is not normal to vomit several times each match and I don't care how many doctors say that there is nothing wrong, at least explain the possibilities.

by _SuperFloren_ Mon Jul 14, 2014 7:27 pm

Harmonica wrote:Why is Fakenaldo in the same sentence with Messi? This was the turning point when Messi left Hairdresser in the dust, and now sits on top of Pele and Maradona. When Pele proves himself in Europe or wins a national league, and Maradona wins three CL's, or even proves himself in European football, they can be compared to Messi.

World cup win would have put him in the conversation with the greats Pele and Maradona, but he failed. He will never win a World cup now. He will be a top 10 all time player no doubt, but no the best, he will be remembered as an amazing club player, same as C.Ronaldo who all agree will not be remembered as the best ever neither. Just accept it, and if Messi doesnt shines again, Cr7 can surpass him in the headlines. I mean, how can you put a player ahead of another if Ronaldo becomes the champions league historic topscorer, golden boot recordman, multiple ballon dor winner, and owner and leader of two different european giants and leagues. The next two seasons can buried the legacy of Messi against CR7. Messi doesnt have more Xavi Iniesta and tiki taka barca around him. CR7 now has a supporting cast level european champion.

by Socur Toxanarosa Mon Jul 14, 2014 11:51 pm

_SuperFloren_ wrote: World cup win would have put him in the conversation with the greats Pele and Maradona, but he failed. He will never win a World cup now. He will be a top 10 all time player no doubt, but no the best, he will be remembered as an amazing club player, same as C.Ronaldo who all agree will not be remembered as the best ever neither. Just accept it, and if Messi doesnt shines again, Cr7 can surpass him in the headlines. I mean, how can you put a player ahead of another if Ronaldo becomes the champions league historic topscorer, golden boot recordman, multiple ballon dor winner, and owner and leader of two different european giants and leagues. The next two seasons can buried the legacy of Messi against CR7. Messi doesnt have more Xavi Iniesta and tiki taka barca around him. CR7 now has a supporting cast level european champion.

Stop this BS, World Cup is overrated. Cristiano Ronaldo is not in the same tier of Messi, he can score 1000 goals but will never have the impact that Lionel had during his prime, not even close. Compare Cristiano to Henry/Ronaldinho and the likes, not Messi/Zidane/Maradona/Pelé.

by rwo power Tue Jul 15, 2014 12:17 am

CR7 didn't really cover himself in glory in the world cup either. Laughing

Spoiler:

by _SuperFloren_ Tue Jul 15, 2014 1:29 am

Socur Toxanarosa wrote:
_SuperFloren_ wrote: World cup win would have put him in the conversation with the greats Pele and Maradona, but he failed. He will never win a World cup now. He will be a top 10 all time player no doubt, but no the best, he will be remembered as an amazing club player, same as C.Ronaldo who all agree will not be remembered as the best ever neither. Just accept it, and if Messi doesnt shines again, Cr7 can surpass him in the headlines. I mean, how can you put a player ahead of another if Ronaldo becomes the champions league historic topscorer, golden boot recordman, multiple ballon dor winner, and owner and leader of two different european giants and leagues. The next two seasons can buried the legacy of Messi against CR7. Messi doesnt have more Xavi Iniesta and tiki taka barca around him. CR7 now has a supporting cast level european champion.

Stop this BS, World Cup is overrated. Cristiano Ronaldo is not in the same tier of Messi, he can score 1000 goals but will never have the impact that Lionel had during his prime, not even close. Compare Cristiano to Henry/Ronaldinho and the likes, not Messi/Zidane/Maradona/Pelé.

What impact are you talking about? Playing 12 UCL semifinal matches against the top teams and only scoring once against a 10men reduced Mourinho Real Madrid in 2011. Losing against a poor Brazil with Wagner Love as his main guy in that Copa America final, losing the only 2 finals he played in his entire career against Real Madrid. Or walking dead in a World cup final?? He was part of a Barcelona team which won 3 international tournaments without him. CR7 always did more impact into his teams than Messi. CR7 is the only guy in history to win a ballon dor playing in England. CR7 transformed a Madrid side who was a constant failure, losing in last 16 UCL 5 years in a row and trashed against third division teams in Spain into a european contender and untouchable Barcelona's biggest threat. Cristiano Ronaldo has scored in every single champions league knockout hes played since 2008 except one, that is utterly incredible. He will be Real Madrid historic topscorer playing half seasons in Spain than Messi. Stop this BS overrating Messi always

by Donuts Tue Jul 15, 2014 1:33 am

oh look another ronaldo vs messi thread, haven't seen one of those in a while..
It's like Messi losing the final suddenly made everyone forget Ronaldo's beautiful world cup run, i'll give it to superfloren though one this is correct Ronaldo's consistency is brilliant..

I mean he's scored 1 goal per world cup he's attended.

by Bankz Wed Jul 16, 2014 12:12 am

While what you're saying might have some substance, it will be difficult for ronaldo to eclipse messi in this era. Yes, if he wins the balon d'or today and another CL, he might have a strong case, but then again,messi isn't solely regarded as greater than ronaldo Just cause of their respective trophy difference,but messi is 'percieved' as greater due to the eye test, raw talent and on the ball ability which is a battle CR will loose out on any day and anytime.(without that the maradonas and ronaldinos wouldn't be this highly revered today)(heck,even a Neymar and an iniesta will stand a higher chance at this than him here)as I remember that people even proclaimed messi as the best even when ronaldo was the 2008 B'dor winner, so, do you necessarily think it was said cause of their trophy hauls then? Even if ronaldo has broken the CL record now, will he be a leagues all time top scorer with more than 50 goals? Will he be the seasons all time top scorer with more than 73 goals? Will he be the calendar years all time top scorer with more than 91 goals? Will he be LA ligas all time top scorer? Will he be the NT all time top scorer in a calendar year? Even if he becomes Madrid all time top scorer, hes not madrids all time best player. But messi is Barcelona's all time tip scorer too and all time best player. Will he score more than 5 goals in a CL match? Will he win the CL top scorer 4 times back to back? Will he win the balon d'or 4 times back to back? Just to name a few,so its neigh on almost impossible for him to achieve these things in this short time frame and that's if nothing positive happens on messis part too and everything positive happens for ronaldo.

by harhar11 Wed Jul 16, 2014 8:57 pm

The *bleep*? Before the semifinal everyone were saying that Argentina were messidependent, and now 2 games later, he flopped?

The fact is that without Messi, Argentina wouldnt even have advanced from the group stage. Thank *bleep* that Mascherano and co finally started playing from Netherland forward. Before that, it was Messi, Romero + 9 more useless players.

And funny how C.ronaldo is about to overtake Mesai as a legend, when Messi has had a better individual 2014..

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