Chicago declared a war zone

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Post by Kick Thu Jul 10, 2014 4:41 am

Seriously, what is going on there? Shocked

Any members from Chicago? Stay safe if you are!
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Post by RealGunner Thu Jul 10, 2014 4:54 am

wat

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Post by Kick Thu Jul 10, 2014 4:58 am

http://www.thenewsnerd.com/local/82-shot-chicago-considered-war-zone-military-deployed/

Mayor Rahm Emmanuel has called on the assistance of the United States military to help patrol the blood-soaked streets of Chicago. The unprecedented move is one step away from declaring total martial law in the nation’s third most populous city.

During 4th of July weekend, 82 people were shot in an 84 hour period, with a total of 14 succumbing to their injuries. Though the number of murders has fallen drastically since the 1990′s, the violence in Chicago seems to be increasing dramatically.

“It’s groundhog day here in Chicago again,” Police Superintendent Garry McCarthy said this morning, in a statement that touched on the violent weekend. “The results were a lot of shootings and a lot of murders unfortunately,” he said. “Yesterday was the day that really blew it up for us in our strategy.”

With their failing strategies to protect the public, city officials will now go in a different direction and call upon the services of the National Guard.

The U.S. military will act as a liaison for the Chicago Police Department and will not be given free reign to enforce the law, at least at this moment.

The city, which has been given the nickname “Chiraq” because of it’s violent present, will now see increased police presence and armed guards in dangerous neighborhoods.
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Post by RedOranje Thu Jul 10, 2014 5:06 am

That's hyperbolic reporting from a non-credible news source and the report itself is inaccurate.

There's not a single major (or reliable news source) or person with authority labeling Chicago a "war zone" at this time.
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Post by Kick Thu Jul 10, 2014 5:08 am

Fair enough.

I have heard things are quite bad there though.
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Post by RedOranje Thu Jul 10, 2014 5:23 am

They are, but then they've been terrible there (in parts of the city) for years. That's the tragedy of this... it's not new, it's not surprising, and it's neither unprecedented or unpredictable. It's been going on for years now and will continue to do so until dramatic change is undertaken with greater gun control and greater funding to help rejuvenate and support the areas facing the issues (among other things).
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Post by Kick Thu Jul 10, 2014 5:33 am

Is it gang related?

Also, I'd be greatfull if you could point me in the direction of a website explaining what is going on.
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Post by McLewis Thu Jul 10, 2014 12:16 pm

Good amount of those are definitely gang related.

As RO said, this has sadly gone on for years and years. Chicago's a beautiful city and I've been there quite a few times over the last few months. It's all about where you are in the city.

That said, the gun laws are playing a large part in what's happening though. Conservatives will no doubt say that arming more of the residents will fix the problem. What I think is if that happens, this sensationalist line in the OP will definitely become a reality.
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Post by dmize Fri Jul 11, 2014 4:05 am

For the most part the violence is confined to the South and West sides of Chicago. Most of Chicago is still relatively safe:

http://crime.chicagotribune.com/chicago/shootings

And yeah a lot of it is gang related. Gangster Disciples and Black Disciples have been killing each other for decades. http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Larry_Hoover

I agree with McLewis, their gun laws aren't helping.

It's far deeper than just rap music obviously, but their rap culture(drill music) certainly isn't helping either. It's only glorifying violence for teens. 15-17 y.o rappers killing each other in broad daylight, then jumping on twitter bragging about it:

http://www.bet.com/news/music/2014/06/02/lil-durk-s-cousin-otf-nunu-shot-dead-in-chicago.html
https://twitter.com/BDK_Cuppo/statuses/472875231535562752
https://twitter.com/BDK_Cuppo/statuses/472869430091718656

BDK= Black Disciple Killers

Seems like some police don't care either. Some lady posted this after: "I just saw a young man get shot at the Target on 87th and Cottage. He crashed his car into the store next to Children's Place. The people who shot him left the scene. When I got to him, he was breathing and had a faint carotid pulse....I told the officers on the scene (they gave me gloves to check). When I told them what I'd found, the Caucasian officer said "do whatever you can to save him", I said get "get him out of the car". The AA officer comes up and says "don't touch him it's a crime scene". I said "he's breathing, he has a pulse"...He said "don't matter"...The white officer says "let her do what she can". The AA officer says "she can't prove her credentials anyway so don't touch him"...I live in hell! His family is there screaming "do something please"...I'll never forget his face. 15 minutes arguing with CPD, that boy stopped breathing and his heart stopped...He died and they could care less! I gotta get my babies out of here! RIP young man! What if that was my husband."

Plenty more killings just like that. Really sad.
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Post by Kick Fri Jul 11, 2014 4:19 am

Wow, bragging about killings of Twitter? There is something wrong here.
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Post by McLewis Fri Jul 11, 2014 1:33 pm

Yeah the police weren't savvy enough to actually track him down using that Twitter post. That's what I found wrong here.

Would've probably happened if he had done it on Facebook.
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Post by Shed Sat Jul 12, 2014 2:57 am

Anyone familiar with the subject will know that Chicago has some of the strictest gun control laws in the entire nation, yet remains one of its the deadliest cities, in spite of both that, as well as (since we're turning this into a left v right issue) 83 years of a Democrat sitting in the mayor's office and decades of an entirely (minus 1 seat out of 50 from '91-'11) Democrat City Council.
And yes, the majority of gun-related incidents or homicides (hovering above 60%, say the likes of ABC News and the Chicago Sun Times) are gang-related.


The grand solution to this problem being presented by RedO, McLewis and their ilk is essentially the passage of more laws for criminals to ignore.


The city is a paradigm against the liberal contention of 'more gun laws = less gun crime', not an example supporting it, as some here are oddly presenting it as.
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Post by RedOranje Sat Jul 12, 2014 3:12 am

YAY. More blatant politicization and fallacious arguments brought into a thread that had no need or desire for them! Thanks, Shed!
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Post by Shed Sat Jul 12, 2014 3:18 am

RedOranje wrote:It's been going on for years now and will continue to do so until dramatic change is undertaken with greater gun control
McLewis wrote:That said, the gun laws are playing a large part in what's happening though. Conservatives will no doubt say that arming more of the residents will fix the problem.


Politics and fallacious arguments? Thank only yourselves for those being in this thread, my friend.

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Post by RedOranje Sat Jul 12, 2014 3:32 am

And again you completely undermine any point or legitimacy you might have by clearly and deliberately leaving out part of both posts which are still clearly visible to anyone and everyone, thus showing exactly which person has the agenda here.

If your only contribution is going to be to attempt to initiate bland, overdone right vs left political debates with inaccurate accusations and yes, fallacious arguments, then please kindly leave the thread and find another place to do so. If you'd actually like to contribute to a discussion then feel free to share your opinion on the situation WITHOUT the unnecessary politicization and confrontation.
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Post by Shed Sat Jul 12, 2014 3:51 am

So opposed to "bland, overdone right vs left political debates" yet found no objection in McLewis' invoking the tired idea of conservatives (of whom I am not one, mind you) supposedly believing more guns as the universal panacea; or, indeed, with your own implication of the need for 'greater' gun control - one of the most highly and intrinsically political discourses around - in a thread with seemingly nothing to do with that debate. Hm.


So what you're essentially saying, then, is that you're opposed to politicization...when the politics being pushed are at odds with your own. Failing that, you have no problem with it.
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Post by RedOranje Sat Jul 12, 2014 4:24 am

A thread about violence (largely gun related) is not intrinsically related to a discussion about gun control? Again you show a clear agenda, whatever your political beliefs.

Drop it and move on. I don't care if you perceive some nonexistent bias or scheme against you... I only care that you follow the rules and recommendations of NOT forcing this into a right vs left argument based on fallacious arguments and off-topic sniping.
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Post by Shed Sat Jul 12, 2014 4:48 am

RedOranje wrote:A thread about violence (largely gun related) is not intrinsically related to a discussion about gun control?


Exactly. The idea that you posited originally, that politics can not/should not enter a discussion about gun violence, or the solutions thereto ("YAY. More blatant politicization...brought into a thread that had no need or desire for [it]"), was nonsensical at its core, prompting my objections to your scolding my own bringing them into it after you and others already had.


And, in the first place, if you want to get semantic about what is and what isn't an appropriate or relevant response within the scope of the original post, the thread specifically was, though manifestly in error, about Chicago being declared a war zone, and as such any replies to it should theoretically have appertained to that alone. And, indeed, any discourse about gun violence or how to fix it - brought into this by both you and McLewis - I would think, would fall under the jurisdiction of the already existent "Gun laws in USA" thread.
-


But hey, I reeeeeally don't want to get into another pointless, drawn-out row, especially at ten to midnight, and am certain you don't either, so I will, indeed, desist from participating in this thread any further.

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Post by RedOranje Sat Jul 12, 2014 4:59 am

Shed wrote:
RedOranje wrote:A thread about violence (largely gun related) is not intrinsically related to a discussion about gun control?


Exactly. The idea that you posited originally, that politics can not/should not enter a discussion about gun violence, or the solutions thereto ("YAY. More blatant politicization...brought into a thread that had no need or desire for [it]"), was nonsensical at its core, prompting my objections to your scolding my own bringing them into it after you and others already had.



No, I stated that specifically aimed, directly intended right-vs-left, Democrat-vs-Republican, talking point based, antagonistic arguments were not directly under the scope of this thread... which is exactly where YOU attempted to drag things. Previous posts, while certainly addressing gun control as an aspect of the discussion and even mentioning political slants in passing, did NOT have the argumentative or antagonistic tone yours did nor did they contain the type of fallacious and combative sentiments and statements. Now please, follow your own claims and move on.
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Post by McLewis Sat Jul 12, 2014 5:43 am

Literally just went into my favorite political forum and there was a thread about this topic. Just like clockwork, here come the conservatives saying exactly what I alluded to in my original posts. So it's not like what I said was untrue or disingenuous.

Now I will expound on what I said.

What should be asked is why Chicago only have 200 Gang Unit cops against 100,000 + gang members. That appears to be the actual reason why gangs are killing people with impunity.

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Post by rwo power Sat Jul 12, 2014 8:56 am

Maybe they should evacuate the peaceful civilians and then fence in the town? John Carpenter's idea sounds not as far-fetched nowadays than in 1981...
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Post by Forza Sat Jul 12, 2014 9:05 am

It appears that the American political system has become so broken it can no longer fix these sorts of problems. Apparently politicians are only concerned with solving problems if there is a economic profit to be made. They cannot halt the provision of harmful but profitable goods, such as firearms. And they can't increase the provision of beneficial but unprofitable services such as healthcare or police either.
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Post by McLewis Sat Jul 12, 2014 2:44 pm

Forza wrote:It appears that the American political system has become so broken it can no longer fix these sorts of problems. Apparently politicians are only concerned with solving problems if there is a economic profit to be made. They cannot halt the provision of harmful but profitable goods, such as firearms. And they can't increase the provision of beneficial but unprofitable services such as healthcare or police either.


Add to this the presence of powerful lobbying groups such as the NRA, who have funneled millions of dollars into campaigns that oppose meaningful gun law reform and you have a primary reason for why guns are so easily accessible in not just Chicago, but all over the country.

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Post by Freeza Sat Jul 12, 2014 2:47 pm

The only thing that will help this is obviously more guns. Preferably also rifles.
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Post by McLewis Sat Jul 12, 2014 2:57 pm

Freeza wrote:The only thing that will help this is obviously more guns. Preferably also rifles.


But in the hands of who? Put those guns in the hands of the people who live in these neighborhoods and I think that installs a false sense of security. It will embolden both sides and exacerbate the violence. Not the answer imo.

Put those guns in the hands of people actually trained specifically to combat these gangs and I think the results are much more effective. Then simply increase the presence of these gang cops.
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