Semi-Final: Argentina Vs Netherlands

RealGunner wrote:I am confident in Messi's powers. If anyone can, he can. Just hoping Aguero is fit. Also Enzo needs to start.

I think Messi is the main reason why so many are supporting Argentina this time including even people who would likely not be well disposed towards them because of past rivalries.

Go Messi win the world cup and forever sit on the golden throne where only Maradona and Pele currently sit.

BarrileteCosmico wrote:Messi has actually been nullified in every game this world cup. Against Bosnia he was kept in their pocket for 45 mins, against Nigeria he scored off a rebound and a free kick, against Iran he scored the only time he was not double marked, against the Swiss he took 118 minutes to make an impact and today he was nullified The Dutch will figure it out too. Our play is too predictable.

Yes and in 2010 he was playing brilliantly for entire 90 minutes and getting what? I'll tell you what he was getting - flak for not scoring. Instead this time his magic is seen only in flashes but it's decisive. Last world cup I heard people say there was no Messi moment. Well this time surely no one will say that. My point here is that much more important than how well you play is how decisive you are and the moments you leave behind for memories. It's these goals which give Messi confidence and the team confidence. Our play was better against Belgium that it was in the previous matches as Sabella also said. Suddenly Higuain burst into life. Maybe next time another player will do likewise. So without playing well we look much more positive and confident this time. A tough test awaits us no doubt but at least the players are mentally prepared for it. Now they just need to go out there and play a good game.

windkick wrote:I think the the OT vs Costa Rica will hurt the Dutch. Plus Argentina surprised me with how much better they lined up and held there line today vs Belgium. So I'll pick Argentina

Btw, whats the word on Kun and Di Maria? Any chance they will be back soon?

That makes good sense.

Arsenalfaithfull wrote:Van Persie aint no Begkamp. If Netherlands should win, it will be all due to Robben imo. Either way , I am not bothered.

I hope the finals consist of Netherlands v Germany or Brazil v Argentina. I want it to be a derby!

Yes Robben is their MVP no question but van Persie started off well and now Sneijder has burst into life. van Persie is a good player but comparing him to Bergkamp is taking it too far.

I understand why anyone would want that kind of a final. The rivalries are for the ages and if the football lives up we are in for a very rare treat.

LeSwagg James wrote:there's nothing like seeing the best player in the World compete in the final

Like Ronaldo did in 2002

That does really wow the world. Players with this kind of super human ability command such a huge fan following not just for themselves but for their teams as well.

Ronaldo in 2002 is one for the ages especially after the disaster of 1998. We can also add Zidane of 1998 but he actually became that huge after the final. Maybe instead we can add Zidane of 2006 even if it ended in ignominy.

Both Ronaldo and Zidane reached two world cup finals winning one. Both won one world cup golden ball. Such similar achievements for these two legends but Zidane's club career was far stronger than Ronaldo's.

Beautiful Football wrote:Who ever score first will win the match.

Scoring first has become like a trump card in this world cup. Teams seem so afraid to concede that they find it hard to turn around even a one goal deficit.

Man argies are too disjoint and disorganized to reach final . This team has overachiever in the tournament. Powered by messi he has single handedly dragged argies until last game . Holland is too organized they will stiffle messi . If diva Maria is not there to help they may just give a free pass for the Dutch to the final . I am not,expecting miracles . But then again miracles do happen look at renties 12 pool 06 .

Robespierre wrote:Argentina - Netherlands always looks like as a special match.
I hope to watch a great match as it was in France 98

What an outstanding match that was - even if it ended in tears for us.

Robespierre wrote:It 's first time Netherlands wins to penalty kicks , if I remember correctly

Euro 92 , Euro 96 , World Cup 98 , Euro 2000 ( )

Actually they did win against Sweden in Euro 2004 but even then last night several corners were turned.

The Dutch had never won in a penalty shoot out in a world cup losing to Brazil in WC 1998 semi final. They had also never gone through after extra time. Lastly in the last nine penalty shoot outs in world cups before last night the team taking the first kick won but last night the Dutch kicked second. Last night was ground breaking.

ACMRox wrote:

Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:

ACMRox wrote:As much as I'd like to see Messi win the tournament for Argentina I see the Dutch winning this one.

Struggling against a park the bus Costa Rica is one thing, counter attacking against a defensively weak Argentina is another.

They didn't look defensively weak today or against Switzerland.

Anyway people keep expecting Argentina's apparent weak defense to crumble every round and they still haven't.

Plus it works both ways, Messi will have more space and in the end he'll drag them through.

Switzerland parked the bus and still were able to expose them and have a couple very good chances, Belgium was really disappointing I'll grant you but the Nigeria game is all the proof I need that this defence is a disaster waiting to happen .

And since LVG will most likely sit back and counter attack I don't see the underwhelming Argentina attack creating too much.

Nigeria is the only game they conceded more than once and the only time they actually conceded any at all was Bosnia.

Both meaningless group games, while Nigeria they had already qualified and Messi was off before 60 mins

None of it relevant now, clean sheets in both KO rounds and against Belgium they limited them to nothing. As i said after the group stage they would improve defensively and they have.

Its what big teams do, when the big moments arrive they eliminate the concentration issues that bothered them against smaller and weaker opposition.

Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:

Mamad wrote:I hope Robben shines and win the best player award. he deserves it.

Depends really, there's quite a few candidates who would be deserving.

Also i must say while i have a feeling that we are going to see Argentina v Brazil i wouldn't be surprised at all to see a Germany v Holland final either.

All 4 teams have pretty much limped to the semi finals, showing clear and obvious strengths and weaknesses which can and probably will be exploited.

I don't really see a clear favourite from any of them, thus expect two very tight and cagey semi finals.

Well said especially the parts in bold which I strongly agree with.

As for the golden ball the front runners are probably Messi and Robben and whoever goes to the final will have a very strong case especially if he shines in the semi final. Neymar unfortunately dropped out due to his untimely injury but he will still be among the top ten. Thiago Silva and possibly David Luiz will be in top ten but they will likely not win. That leaves Germany and specifically Manuel Neuer and Thomas Muller. They need to do more to compete with Messi and Robben currently but if they have splendid semi finals and end up on the winning side then it's possible. Lastly this time in the top ten there should be one or more players from teams who didn't make the semi finals. James Rodriguez is nailed on. Maybe Keylor Navas.

sree999 wrote:This team has overachiever in the tournament. Powered by messi he has single handedly dragged argies until last game.

Yes but why can't there be a repeat of Maradona 86? He took them past the pretty much impossible to beat Germany of those days. If Messi is really Maradona reincarnate on the football pitch he should be able to achieve the impossible.

Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:
Its what big teams do, when the big moments arrive they eliminate the concentration issues that bothered them against smaller and weaker opposition.

100% on the money

messixaviesta wrote:

sree999 wrote:This team has overachiever in the tournament. Powered by messi he has single handedly dragged argies until last game.

Yes but why can't there be a repeat of Maradona 86? He took them past the pretty much impossible to beat Germany of those days. If Messi is really Maradona reincarnate on the football pitch he should be able to achieve the impossible.

   for me i am also hoping argies win . But i don't see them winning against Holland . The way robben is playing i don't thing Argentina's defence wil handle him . Arg could fizzle out jus like in 2010 south Africa .

BarrileteCosmico wrote:Messi has actually been nullified in every game this world cup. Against Bosnia he was kept in their pocket for 45 mins, against Nigeria he scored off a rebound and a free kick, against Iran he scored the only time he was not double marked, against the Swiss he took 118 minutes to make an impact and today he was nullified The Dutch will figure it out too. Our play is too predictable.

To be fair though, he has been involved in every goal Argentina scored bar one. And that was the third goal against Nigeria from a corner, I think he may have been subbed before that.

Hardly 'nullified'.

Nullified? lol

BC is just getting in his jinxes so they can activate during NED-ARG

I'm 100% serious. He has yet to play a game where he has been great. So far all he's done is shine at a few points, but I think most people would agree that you can have bad games in spite of scoring and he's had a couple of those games.

His general play has been worse than 2010, in general play he was the best player in 2010 in my opinion.

But in 2010, he didnt have end product in the games. Whereas Snijeder for example who did very little in general play had tremendous end results, somehow he scored 3-4 deflected goals..now Messi is having great ends results while doing not much in the general sense.

You would much rather have the latter. Even though it looks worse, in the end it gets you results...Messi nor Argentina can afford to be picky about that at this stage.

Don't disagree obviously. What I'm getting at is that an oragnized and talented side like the rest of the semifinalists can do the same to Messi and then it's up to the rest of the team to step it up - which has not really happened yet.

tbf to Messi, he pretty much gets hacked down every time he gets the ball. It's hard to shine in general play when half the opposition closes you down immediately.

That being said, Messi has been great, playing a part in every goal and saving Argentina on more than one occasion. I don't think the criticism is fair.

With Di Maria out, Higuain needs to be on song as an outlet.

I can see Argentina edging it, in what I expect to be yet another low scoring affair.

I do want the dutch to finally win a W.C as no country that hasn't deserves it more. But I just can't bring myself to like a team made up of Robben, RVP and De Jong.

Robben's diving is annoying the crap out of me

At this point whatever team puts forth more effort and concentrates better will win. None of these teams have really been impressive up to this point anymore.

I'd like to see the Netherlands win though.

The Dutch won't give Messi any space and he'll get hacked left, right and center and marked out of the game. Someone else will need to step up for Arg.

I honestly see the Dutch winning.

Well both Robben and Messi will equally get shut out as much as possible.

So do you think Sneijder and RVP or Higuain and Aguero will rise up to the occasion?

I fancy Argentina attack to decide this one.. At the same time I could just be deceived like I was by the French.. Argentina have had a pretty easy run into the semis tbh. This is their first real test.

messixaviesta wrote:

Robespierre wrote:Argentina - Netherlands always looks like as a special match.
I hope to watch a great match as it was in France 98

What an outstanding match that was - even if it ended in tears for us.

Definitely was, that Bergkamp goal remains one of the best ever I have seen in such a big stage.

messixaviesta wrote:

Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:

Mamad wrote:I hope Robben shines and win the best player award. he deserves it.

Depends really, there's quite a few candidates who would be deserving.

Also i must say while i have a feeling that we are going to see Argentina v Brazil i wouldn't be surprised at all to see a Germany v Holland final either.

All 4 teams have pretty much limped to the semi finals, showing clear and obvious strengths and weaknesses which can and probably will be exploited.

I don't really see a clear favourite from any of them, thus expect two very tight and cagey semi finals.

Well said especially the parts in bold which I strongly agree with.

As for the golden ball the front runners are probably Messi and Robben and whoever goes to the final will have a very strong case especially if he shines in the semi final. Neymar unfortunately dropped out due to his untimely injury but he will still be among the top ten. Thiago Silva and possibly David Luiz will be in top ten but they will likely not win. That leaves Germany and specifically Manuel Neuer and Thomas Muller. They need to do more to compete with Messi and Robben currently but if they have splendid semi finals and end up on the winning side then it's possible. Lastly this time in the top ten there should be one or more players from teams who didn't make the semi finals. James Rodriguez is nailed on. Maybe Keylor Navas.

Agree that not anyone of the big teams left have been absolutely convincing, but Germany at least appears to have the least weaknesses it seems for me.

The top players list to really depend on the SF and finals obviously but the names mentioned should be included.

El Shaarawy wrote:BC is just getting in his jinxes so they can activate during NED-ARG

  

The Franchise wrote:His general play has been worse than 2010, in general play he was the best player in 2010 in my opinion.

But in 2010, he didnt have end product in the games. Whereas Snijeder for example who did very little in general play had tremendous end results, somehow he scored 3-4 deflected goals..now Messi is having great ends results while doing not much in the general sense.

You would much rather have the latter. Even though it looks worse, in the end it gets you results...Messi nor Argentina can afford to be picky about that at this stage.

That is true. Im glad Messi regained his form but disappointed he just cant seem to reach his former peak anymore. It is starting to look like an age thing where the peak is over....

Peccadillo wrote:tbf to Messi, he pretty much gets hacked down every time he gets the ball. It's hard to shine in general play when half the opposition closes you down immediately.

That being said, Messi has been great, playing a part in every goal and saving Argentina on more than one occasion. I don't think the criticism is fair.

With Di Maria out, Higuain needs to be on song as an outlet.

I can see Argentina edging it, in what I expect to be yet another low scoring affair.

I do want the dutch to finally win a W.C as no country that hasn't deserves it more. But I just can't bring myself to like a team made up of Robben, RVP and De Jong.

Agree with this also! So many Dutch teams in the past 'deserves' it more lol! Would be really incredible if this team goes all the way... and VG would earn truly legendary status.