Some newbie questions . . .

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Some newbie questions . . .  Empty Some newbie questions . . .

Post by BartFargo Thu Jun 19, 2014 6:49 pm

A newbie question . . .

Why not kick to goal box on every corner kick?  It seems that many goals are the result of corner kicks into the goal box.  It also seems that penalties against the defending team happen a lot during corner kicks into the goal box.  So, why doesn't the attacking team ALWAYS kick into the goal box?  I see that sometimes the kicker just passes to a close teammate. What am I missing here?

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Post by futbol Thu Jun 19, 2014 6:52 pm

You need to watch more Premier League. They do exactly what you are asking in that league. It's called "hoof ball" and is a very advanced football tactic that only master tacticians like Sam Allardyce or Mourinho ("The Special One") can pull off. Other leagues like La Liga or Bundesliga are lagging behind with 1950s tactics like high pressing, short passing triangulations, ballplaying centerhalfs and possession football.

In international football currently Brazil are the best at so called hoof ball. Which is why they are top favourites to win the whole thing.

bounce

On a serious note. If you are asking this in terms of set pieces only then about 90 % of corners or freekicks are actually lumped into the box like you want. For some teams it just doesn't make sense though because they have a serious height disadvantage. Mexico and Spain for example are among the shortest teams in the competition. If they lump the ball into the box against, say, Brazil (who are among the tallest) they will lose the aerial duel 9 out of 10 times and risk running into a counterattack with many bodies pushed forward out of position. They prefer to play it short and keep the ball in advanced positions and the pressure up and try to create something out of play then.

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Post by BartFargo Thu Jun 19, 2014 7:16 pm

Fußball wrote:It's called "hoof ball" and is a very advanced football tactic . . .

Is "hoof ball" the same technique as "long ball"?

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Post by Hapless_Hans Thu Jun 19, 2014 7:22 pm

it's a joke as Fußball likes to make fun of the English league, and rightly so :coffee:

But the relevant information follows after 'on a serious note', it's all there.
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Some newbie questions . . .  Empty How long does a yellow card follow a player?

Post by BartFargo Thu Jun 19, 2014 7:26 pm

How long does a yellow card follow a player?  From watching the WC, it seems that once a player gets his first yellow card then he must be careful or else he may get his second, promoted to red, and ejected from a match played several days later.  Does a player's first yellow card "hang over his head" for the rest of the cup?  Also, if a player gets two yellows, promoted to red and ejected, can he play in the next match?  If so, does he start over with the yellow cards?

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Post by futbol Thu Jun 19, 2014 7:33 pm

BartFargo wrote:How long does a yellow card follow a player?  From watching the WC, it seems that once a player gets his first yellow card then he must be careful or else he may get his second, promoted to red, and ejected from a match played several days later.  Does a player's first yellow card "hang over his head" for the rest of the cup?  Also, if a player gets two yellows, promoted to red and ejected, can he play in the next match?  If so, does he start over with the yellow cards?


This article explains it well I think: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_FIFA_World_Cup_disciplinary_record

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Post by Hapless_Hans Thu Jun 19, 2014 7:34 pm

If you get a second yellow card in the SAME game you're out, you get a red on top of the second yellow, have to leave the pitch and will miss one game.

Then there's different rules as to how many single yellow cards over the course of separate games you can accumulate until you will be suspended for one game.

At the World Cup it's two yellow cards now I guess which is ridiculously harsh imo, but there's a point in the tournament when the sheet is cleaned, I think after the quarters (not sure though)

In the Bundesliga for example you will be suspended for a game after accumulating 5 single yellow cards.
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Post by BartFargo Thu Jun 19, 2014 7:38 pm

Fußball wrote:

This article explains it well I think:

Thanks for the link.

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Post by BartFargo Thu Jun 19, 2014 7:39 pm

Hapless_Hans wrote:
Then there's different rules as to how many single yellow cards over the course of separate games you can accumulate until you will be suspended for one game.

At the World Cup it's two yellow cards now I guess which is ridiculously harsh imo, but there's a point in the tournament when the sheet is cleaned, I think after the quarters (not sure though)

In the Bundesliga for example you will be suspended for a game after accumulating 5 single yellow cards.

I think it's the differing rules that confuses me the most. Oh well . . . I'll learn.

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Post by Hapless_Hans Thu Jun 19, 2014 7:44 pm

Well right now it's just the World cup that matters, so what's in Fussball's link is all you need for that.
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Post by BartFargo Thu Jun 19, 2014 7:49 pm

In one WC game I noticed the leading team executed a few delays DURING the added time at the end of the game. If the ref adds minutes to the end of the period, it seems unfair that the leading team can make several long delays during this added time. Will the ref compensate by adding even MORE time? Or can the leading (delaying) team be penalized in another way?

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Post by Hapless_Hans Thu Jun 19, 2014 7:59 pm

It's all at the discretion of the referee.

If there's time lost in added time, like with a substitution or a goal scored, or time wasting, the ref will add more time on top.
If he feels players are deliberately wasting time, he might caution them, give them a yellow card.
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Post by BartFargo Thu Jun 19, 2014 8:10 pm

Hapless_Hans wrote:It's all at the discretion of the referee.

If there's time lost in added time, like with a substitution or a goal scored, or time wasting, the ref will add more time on top.
If he feels players are deliberately wasting time, he might caution them, give them a yellow card.

Thanks. I guess it also depends on the score? If a team is several goals up at the end of the game, where it's almost an impossibility for the other team to score enough times to win, then the ref may be a bit more lenient?

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Post by Collblanc Thu Jun 19, 2014 11:53 pm

BartFargo, thanking you for asking these questions. I remember asking these things to my dad, a long time ago. oh, the memories. how he would have loved this worldcup. enjoy the game!
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Post by BartFargo Fri Jun 20, 2014 12:59 am

Collblanc wrote:BartFargo, thanking you for asking these questions. I remember asking these things to my dad, a long time ago. oh, the memories. how he would have loved this worldcup. enjoy the game!

I appreciate the expert answers and I just hope the members don't lose patience with me.

I am enjoying this WC. I am rooting for the US of course, but also Mexico -- unless they play each other -- then I have to root for the US.

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Post by rwo power Fri Jun 20, 2014 3:11 am

BartFargo wrote:Thanks.  I guess it also depends on the score?  If a team is several goals up at the end of the game, where it's almost an impossibility for the other team to score enough times to win, then the ref may be a bit more lenient?

Well, in such cases it is unlikely that the leading team would waste any time. Time wasting usually only rears its ugly head when a team desperately tries to hold onto a draw or a very narrow lead.

(For other reasons to waste time for trying to hold to a certain result in the CL or EL, you can ask later on when these competitions are up and running again as then other interesting things come into play like the away-goal rule etc)
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Post by BartFargo Fri Jun 20, 2014 3:34 am

rwo power wrote:
Well, in such cases it is unlikely that the leading team would waste any time. Time wasting usually only rears its ugly head when a team desperately tries to hold onto a draw or a very narrow lead.
That makes sense. Thanks.

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Post by BartFargo Sat Jun 21, 2014 3:59 pm

Can a player that has citizenship in more than one nation play for one nation in the WC and then play for a different nation four years later? I was watching a special about the Iranian-American player Steven Beitashour and they stated that since he is playing for Iran in this WC that he could never play for another nation ever again. Is this true?

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Post by Forza Sat Jun 21, 2014 4:19 pm

BartFargo wrote:Can a player that has citizenship in more than one nation play for one nation in the WC and then play for a different nation four years later?  I was watching a special about the Iranian-American player Steven Beitashour and they stated that since he is playing for Iran in this WC that he could never play for another nation ever again.  Is this true?

Yes. The general rule is that once you play for 1 nation you cannot go and play for another nation later.
Although there are some notable exceptions:
1) players who have represented 1 nation at youth level can play for another nation at senior level
2) players who have represented 1 nation at senior level in international friendly games can play for another nation at senior level in a competitive fixture

Also, note that you don't even need to have citizenship to play for a particular nation. It is enough if one of your parents or grandparents was born there.
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Post by BartFargo Sat Jun 21, 2014 4:32 pm

Forza wrote:
Also, note that you don't even need to have citizenship to play for a particular nation. It is enough if one of your parents or grandparents was born there.

I believe this is the case for Steven Beitashour.  He was born here in the US but his parents were born in Iran.  According to the TV special, he wanted to play for the US team and was called up but never played. I sure don't blame him -- better to play for any national team in the WC than not play at all.

Thanks for the in-depth answer!   Thumbs up

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Some newbie questions . . .  Empty Wow, how does the assistant ref call offsides penalties so easily?

Post by BartFargo Sun Jun 22, 2014 4:19 am

This is more of "how do they do that?" rather than a question about rules, play, etc..  I'm amazed at the ability of the assistant ref  to call offsides so easily.  I don't see how he can (1) stay in  line with the defenders to determine the offsides line, (2) see the attacking player kick the pass, and (3) notice if any of the in-play attackers are over the line at that instant.  Yeah, I can see an offsides situation when I see it analyzed in slo-mo instant replay and sometimes I can detect offsides if it is blatant . . . but the subtle calls . . . wow.  And sometimes the outcome of a match is riding on their calls.  Is it because the assistant ref is down on the field along the touch line - does that makes offsides easier to spot?

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Post by titosantill Sun Jun 22, 2014 5:40 am

yeah offsides are very controversial and sometimes they goof it...but yeah there are linesmen, one on each side of the park running up and down following the play, and there duties are not limited to offside calls alone...more info on the link, as sometimes despite my years of experience in watching the game, a lot of their functions and capabilities fly over my head
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assistant_referee_(association_football)
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Post by BartFargo Sun Jun 22, 2014 5:47 am

titosantill wrote:...more info on the link, as sometimes despite my years of experience in watching the game, a lot of their functions and capabilities fly over my head

Hey man, thanks for the link. It's late so I am going to read it in the morning.

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Post by El Gunner Sun Jun 22, 2014 9:52 am

I think the more you watch football the more it will be easier for you to catch a tight offside call on field right from your couch.
It has to do with how you get to learn the game and the flow of the game.
I for example, have watched years of English Premier League football (the fastest flowing league in the world) and I, not bragging, can spot an offside call 9/10 from my couch even if it is a very close call.

Linesmen's main job is to call offside decisions, so you must assume they will be professionally trained for that. They have to keep fit to stay in line with the last defender and sometimes that's pretty tough if the flow of the game is rapid, and that's why sometimes linesmen's view is slightly skewed, therefore leading to wrong calls.
However, I must also say, as you'll watch more league football (which I hope you'll do) you'll learn that there are quite a lot of blatant offsides that get called wrongly by linesmen. Especially in La Liga.
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Post by BartFargo Sun Jun 22, 2014 3:17 pm

titosantill wrote:
<link> -----> Assistant_referee_(association_football)

Good info.  Thanks!

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