Some newbie questions . . .

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Post by BartFargo Sun Jun 22, 2014 3:17 pm

titosantill wrote:
<link> -----> Assistant_referee_(association_football)

Good info.  Thanks!

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Post by BartFargo Sun Jun 22, 2014 3:23 pm

El Gunner wrote:I think the more you watch football the more it will be easier for you to catch a tight offside call on field right from your couch.
It has to do with how you get to learn the game and the flow of the game.

Learning while enjoying the play is frustrating sometimes.

I saw a team execute an "offsides trap". Boy, that looked like a risky defensive move.

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Post by BartFargo Sun Jun 22, 2014 3:36 pm

This is for me and any other newbies on this forum (although there don't seem to be any others  Laughing ) . . .

I found this group winner selection criteria on wiki:



  (1) Greatest combined goal difference in all group matches
  (2) Greatest combined number of goals scored in all group matches
  (3) If more than one team remain level after applying the above criteria, their ranking will be determined as follows:
      - Greatest number of points in head-to-head matches among those teams
      - Greatest goal difference in head-to-head matches among those teams
      - Greatest number of goals scored in head-to-head matches among those teams
 (4) If any of the teams above remain level after applying the above criteria, their ranking will be determined by the drawing of lots

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Post by rwo power Sun Jun 22, 2014 4:04 pm

BartFargo wrote:I saw a team execute an "offsides trap".  Boy, that looked like a risky defensive move.
Well, nowadays you have a "passive" and an "active" offside, a concept that was introduced from the 2011/12 season on. Before that, there were lots more offsides called and teams relied more on an offside trap as it worked even when one player only stood next to the corner flag to fasten his shoes.

Nowadays  with the passive/active offside, things have become trickier both for a team playing an offside trap and for the linesman calling it.

Oh, and about the citizen thing - in the Iran match, Teheran born, but in Germany raised Ashkan Dejegah played 20 matches for the Germany U21 team (and even became European Champion with the U21 in 2009), before he decided to sign up with the Iranian senior team.
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Post by BartFargo Sun Jun 22, 2014 4:40 pm

rwo power wrote:
Well, nowadays you have a "passive" and an "active" offside, a concept that was introduced from the 2011/12 season on. Before that, there were lots more offsides called and teams relied more on an offside trap as it worked even when one player only stood next to the corner flag to fasten his shoes.

Nowadays  with the passive/active offside, things have become trickier both for a team playing an offside trap and for the linesman calling it.
Does "active" mean the offensive player that the pass was intended?  And "passive" is any other offensive player who happens to be offside?

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Post by rwo power Sun Jun 22, 2014 5:14 pm

"active" means any player who takes part in a shot on goal or who gets into the way of the goalie or defenders (e.g. disturbs their line of sight).

"passive" is a player who is technically placed in an offside position, but doesn't take part in the attack or obstructs the goalie or defenders.
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Post by BartFargo Sun Jun 22, 2014 5:22 pm

rwo power wrote:"active" means any player who takes part in a shot on goal or who gets into the way of the goalie or defenders (e.g. disturbs their line of sight).

"passive" is a player who is technically placed in an offside position, but doesn't take part in the attack or obstructs the goalie or defenders.

Thanks for the clarification.   Thumbs up

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Some newbie questions . . .  - Page 2 Empty Kick directly into goal from corner kick?

Post by BartFargo Sun Jun 22, 2014 10:17 pm

Is it bad strategy for an attacker to kick directly into goal from a corner kick? I don't see this tried very often. Is this too difficult for most players? Or is it too difficult for all players?

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Post by rwo power Sun Jun 22, 2014 10:36 pm

Well, it is extremely difficult because to get the trajectory right from that distance you need a lot of luck, too. (And mind you, there are quite some defenders around and the goalie tries to prevent it, too.)

This is an interesting  German language article about the topic, but I have no idea if Google translate or the like will make sufficient sense of it - but you might want to try. In the mean time I'll try to find an English language article.
http://de.fifa.com/newscentre/features/news/newsid=1537528/index.html

Here's an English article about a Diego Forlán corner goal:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2363968/Diego-Forlan-scores-corner-join-list-containing-David-Beckham-Thierry-Henry-Ronaldinho.html
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Post by Hapless_Hans Sun Jun 22, 2014 11:41 pm

Ultimate legend Mario Basler did it a couple of times Proud
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Post by rwo power Mon Jun 23, 2014 12:55 am

Well, Mario Basler is Mario Basler. He loves to do the impossible :coffee:
(He even tried to coach RWO once :bow: )
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Post by zarola Mon Jun 23, 2014 1:19 am

BartFargo wrote:Is it bad strategy for an attacker to kick directly into goal from a corner kick? I don't see this tried very often. Is this too difficult for most players? Or is it too difficult for all players?


Luis Suarez of Uruguay tried it against Joe Hart of England since he was slightly off his line and leaving a tempting space to shoot...
It worked in that case (he didn't score but he forced the keeper twice into making difficult saves), but usually a direct kick from a corner is covered.
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Post by titosantill Mon Jun 23, 2014 1:48 am

scoring directly from a corner kick is very difficult to pull off. lol and you'll look like an asshole if you keep trying it and missing when you can just aim for your teammates in the box...some goals directly from corners
roberto baggio - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SRL9Kx5yw8E
maradona- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UaVKNNjI8z0
thierry henry- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vx7FDdL3crw
roberto carlos- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z_gxU41ubu8
alvaro recoba (he's done it more than once, i recall seeing him scoring one with inter..can't find that one though)- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pOvp45fOhfs
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Post by free_cat Mon Jun 23, 2014 1:25 pm

Forza wrote:
BartFargo wrote:Can a player that has citizenship in more than one nation play for one nation in the WC and then play for a different nation four years later?  I was watching a special about the Iranian-American player Steven Beitashour and they stated that since he is playing for Iran in this WC that he could never play for another nation ever again.  Is this true?

Yes. The general rule is that once you play for 1 nation you cannot go and play for another nation later.
Although there are some notable exceptions:
1) players who have represented 1 nation at youth level can play for another nation at senior level
2) players who have represented 1 nation at senior level in international friendly games can play for another nation at senior level in a competitive fixture

Also, note that you don't even need to have citizenship to play for a particular nation. It is enough if one of your parents or grandparents was born there.


There's a 3rd exception that will happen again soon for Catalonia:
- When a new country is created, players that played for the old country can switch to the new one. It happened with Montengro.
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Post by free_cat Mon Jun 23, 2014 1:28 pm

Also, offside rules is possibly the most stupid rule in football, as it requires the linesmen to be watching to the passer of the ball and the receiver of the ball at the exact same time, which is impossible 9/10 of offside situations as humans have a small radius of sight and focus our sight a lot.
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Post by zenmaster Mon Jun 23, 2014 2:28 pm

free_cat wrote:Also, offside rules is possibly the most stupid rule in football, as it requires the linesmen to be watching to the passer of the ball and the receiver of the ball at the exact same time, which is impossible 9/10 of offside situations as humans have a small radius of sight and focus our sight a lot.


Like the Goal Line Technology we have this time , there should be another Offside detector which should do the exact calculation of shooting the ball and checking the last defense line. It will come sooner or later. It will be lethal then. We have the technology and should be using it by now.
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Post by beatrixasdfghjk. Mon Jun 23, 2014 2:57 pm

I feel video reffing would be more effective for that although that comes with its own issues of stopping the play, but it doesn't seem feasible for technology to detect whether the attacker or defender's body, not counting their arms, is closer to goal at the exact moment a ball is kicked, then accounting for things like rebounds off the post, parries by goalies, etc.

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Post by Kuru Mon Jun 23, 2014 8:31 pm

I think video reply would be enough. If it's a hard call to make, just let the play go until the fourth official watches a reply on his screen, shouldn't take more than 5-10 seconds.

Same thing could be done with penalties, to avoid situations like that awful Brazil penalty against Croatia.
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Post by Kuru Mon Jun 23, 2014 8:33 pm

free_cat wrote:Also, offside rules is possibly the most stupid rule in football, as it requires the linesmen to be watching to the passer of the ball and the receiver of the ball at the exact same time, which is impossible 9/10 of offside situations as humans have a small radius of sight and focus our sight a lot.

I think think they play it by sound. Just focus on the offside line, and hearing the sound of the kicked ball.
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Post by free_cat Mon Jun 23, 2014 10:20 pm

that's not possible in packed stadium full of cheering supporters.
also, replay is not okay with offside, as What happens if the ref whistles offside and it isn't? you can't restart the play with the advantage it had. it should be automatic.
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Post by cyberman Mon Jun 23, 2014 11:02 pm

if the linesman is in line, all he has to do is dart his eyes ffs.
split second
its not as if hes off catching the ball

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Post by Kuru Tue Jun 24, 2014 12:20 am

free_cat wrote:that's not possible in packed stadium full of cheering supporters.
also, replay is not okay with offside, as What happens if the ref whistles offside and it isn't? you can't restart the play with the advantage it had. it should be automatic.

True.

I was suggesting that that play can continue until the fourth ref can see the vid and make a conclusion, then the ref can whistle if it is an offside.

I think making it an automatic would be too expensive to implement.
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Post by zenmaster Tue Jun 24, 2014 7:42 am

Its very easy to detect at run time , time of kick and last man defender tapping. Wont be difficult for technology to crack it. It will hardly take a second. The point being body / arm being ahead of the last defender they can easily pin point a law for it which the algorithm will follow.
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Post by BartFargo Tue Jun 24, 2014 2:18 pm

Thanks for all the responses.

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Post by BartFargo Tue Jun 24, 2014 3:10 pm

If the goalie receives a pass from a teammate and starts to field it with his feet, can he pick the ball up, as long as he is in the penalty box? Can a goalie, who is outside the penalty box, kick the ball into the penalty box and then pick the ball up?

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Post by rwo power Tue Jun 24, 2014 5:17 pm

BartFargo wrote:If the goalie receives a pass from a teammate and starts to field it with his feet, can he pick the ball up, as long as he is in the penalty box?
Yes and no. Yes, if the ball arrives in a way that he would have been allowed to take the ball with the hand anyway, then he is allowed to take the ball  into his hand after he received it, for example with the foot. This must be the same game situation, though.

It gets a bit tricky in the case that he already controlled the ball with his hand, and then drops it to dribble with it. In that case he is not allowed to take it up with the hand anymore as it is a new game situation.

BartFargo wrote: Can a goalie, who is outside the penalty box, kick the ball into the penalty box and then pick the ball up?
I'm not 100% sure, but I would say no as the ball would have been shot into the penalty area as a controlled pass, which would prohibit the goalie to take up the ball with his hands.

Okay, I hope I made some sense trying to explain it in English. ^^
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