World Cup: Group A discussion

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Post by Onyx Thu Jun 12, 2014 11:34 pm

Spoiler:

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Post by lszanto Thu Jun 12, 2014 11:36 pm

Yohan Modric wrote:
Spoiler:


So surprised  :facepalm: 
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Post by BarrileteCosmico Thu Jun 12, 2014 11:39 pm

Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:Your going to ignore this because you don't want to accept it but Croatia hardly created a chance till the last 5 mins and Cesar hadn't made a save till the Modric long shot towards the end.

Brazil were the better team, they created more chances looked more dangerous and deserved the win.

The real question is why is this so called GOAT midfield of Croatia was dominated by f*cking Paulinho?

Also yes the ref was shit but lets not act like Brazil wouldn't have won anyway, they were better and deserved the win.
While I agree that Brazil were better than Croatia, this was mostly because from the minute Croatia scored for the next 60 minutes they were not able to generate any sort of challenge at all. But that's not to say Brazil was particularly impressive in their chances either. As a collective unit they were not very good at creating dangerous plays, which mostly came from individual moments (Nerman, Fred diving, Oscar). I would say that while Brazil were better they did not do enough to call it a deserved win.
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Post by Helmer Thu Jun 12, 2014 11:39 pm

Brazil were the better team because they kept the ball whole time and then started hoofing it because their passing game was not working, great logic :bow: Brazil probably would have won it anyway but to say they deserved it is nonsense

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Post by Arquitecto Thu Jun 12, 2014 11:41 pm

Naturally, Croatia would be dominated considering Post-Blasic their manager has not figured out a nickel from a dime in how to have them function as a proper unit, relying mostly on their highly talented trio of Modric-Rakatic-Kovi to produce the goods. Difference from Blasic's side and this current side is that Croatia are a very pragmatic side to which do not use the abilities of their core midfield spine. It does not help that Olic was forced wide due to the absence of Mandzukic, having a very mediocre Jelavic take their place.

You would not expect Croatia to dominate given mountainous pressure surrounding them given the tournament favourites faced them in a 4 year build up to their own home advantage in a team afforded much more to them than the Croats.

Thus Mole, I cannot agree that Croatia did not create many chances as like Brazil, their ineffectual striker failed to occupy the space afforded to (them) in the form of stray balls in the box and lateral ground crosses.

Quite frankly in team response and tactical reactions I found Croatia rather better given outside Neymar and Oscar, Brazil tended to play for themselves as pure individuals, Croatia on the other hand impressed me very much given what was against them. Ivan Rakitic in particular being their finest player while Kovi looked in awe of the situation (despite having neat touches) while Modric was better with his hair as a footballer.

A draw would have been a fair result as I cannot see the argument against that, it is sad that the opening match (a then superb match) had to be marred by a referee's conquest to get rich, as it cannot be argued that they would have scored even if Fred was not awarded the penalty; Oscar's goal being result of Croatia's desperation to score.

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Post by BORUSSIA!! Thu Jun 12, 2014 11:41 pm

how did brazil look better? how many clear cut chances did they create, barely any. only neymars goal and paulinho had a decent shot at the keeper. all they did was have more possession and look threatening in the final third but no clear cut chances. i mean how many saves did the croatia keeper make? hardly any, if brazil was so good as some say the croat keeper should be MOTM. if anything he had a bad game as a better keeper could possibly save all 3 of brazil's goals.

chances wise brazil didn't do much more than croatia. we have no idea now how that came would have turned if it wasn for that incorrect pen, on top of that incorrect disallowed goal and foul on rakitic just before the third.

would brazil still have won if it wasnt for freds cheating? maybe, but we'll never now. it wouldnt have been surprising if croatia held on for a draw or even snuck a goal late for a win.

brazil deserve no praise for that match and deserve all the abuse that's coming for them. in the end their player cheated to get the win.

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Post by M99 Thu Jun 12, 2014 11:44 pm

HEIL MEIN REDS wrote:Brazil were the better team because they kept the ball whole time and then started hoofing it because their passing game was not working, great logic :bow: Brazil probably would have won it anyway but to say they deserved it is nonsense


scratch
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Post by Helmer Thu Jun 12, 2014 11:45 pm

I would start that kid Rebic next time, he looked good in those last few minutes

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Post by Helmer Thu Jun 12, 2014 11:48 pm

M99 wrote:
HEIL MEIN REDS wrote:Brazil were the better team because they kept the ball whole time and then started hoofing it because their passing game was not working, great logic :bow: Brazil probably would have won it anyway but to say they deserved it is nonsense



scratch

i was saying Brazil probably would have won it anyways due to another individual quality moment. But to say 'they deserved it' is nonsense because you never know how the game is going to go without the penalty and they were not creating anything in particular. So it might have been a draw in the end

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Post by Gil Thu Jun 12, 2014 11:57 pm

Croatia were shit mate. Disgrace of a team.

England like performance from them.
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Post by M99 Thu Jun 12, 2014 11:59 pm

HEIL MEIN REDS wrote:
M99 wrote:
HEIL MEIN REDS wrote:Brazil were the better team because they kept the ball whole time and then started hoofing it because their passing game was not working, great logic :bow: Brazil probably would have won it anyway but to say they deserved it is nonsense



scratch

i was saying Brazil probably would have won it anyways due to another individual quality moment. But to say 'they deserved it' is nonsense because you never know how the game is going to go without the penalty and they were not creating anything in particular. So it might have been a draw in the end


They were the better team after the own goal. That's what I meant. It is funny to see people acting like as if they played terrible (was not their best game by any means) and was carried by the referee.
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Post by Gil Fri Jun 13, 2014 12:00 am

What games were people watching? Rakitic was shit and Kovacic even worse. Modric was very good in possession but he did little to impact the game like Oscar and Neymar.

Only Croatian player that impressed me was Perisic.
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Post by elitedam Fri Jun 13, 2014 12:08 am

The penalty was BS and Fred is a disgrace as a player and as a diver. However, it was a clear foul on JC so I don't know what the hell you all talking about. As for the challenge that led to the third goal, it looked clean but I didn't see any replays so I could be wrong. Also, the third goal had nothing to do with Croatia's desperation but more to do with them being careless playing the ball from the back. It happened two or three times before and it finally caught up to them.

I don't think we were or are a great team but I still think we have a chance because we're at home. Once we get away from that pathetic crowd in SP we should do better. Also, we'll be playing a lot more on the counter against the big teams. But I don't know what Felipao was thinking bringing Hernanes and Bernard instead of William and Fernandinho.

I feel genuinely bad for the Croatia fans.

I'm also very sorry for the butthurt Goal Legacy crowd. You guys are in my prayers tonight.
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Post by Arquitecto Fri Jun 13, 2014 12:15 am

Jokes aside the actual travesty stems from the fact that the tide of the match was turned via a poor officiating decision and not say, an individual or team piece of brilliance to which was the response versus Marcelo's own goal.

What actually should be praised is Brazil's response to a very embarrassing situation lead by a then invisible Neymar and Oscar's 90 minute industry. For Croatia, the siege mentality to cohesively gather as a group being indifferent to the mammoth pressure of their situation before and within the game; tactically responding well in every single dimension and refusing to whimper to the collasal predicaments.

Which is what made it such a great match rather than the expectation of this being a routine rout for the opening match of the 4 year build up. Croatia's manager is no Blasic yet he was fantastic in all his decisions and preparations tonight; the team deserves our respect even if you are Brazilian.
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Post by Magic Spray Fri Jun 13, 2014 12:23 am

Also, it hasn't been mentioned enough how awful that Croatian keeper is. It's like he is wearing cement boots.
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Post by Arquitecto Fri Jun 13, 2014 12:24 am

I honestly would love to join in the PLEBkosa criticism yet I actually do not think he was at fault for any goal.

The first one was a result of poor defending; the player positions obscuring his view until he discovered Neyman's well placed finish.

The penalty he was fantastic to receive a touch upon it given the expectations as that deserves applause.

The third again was product of a very well placed and dexterous toe-poke from Oscar to which anticipation cannot be enough.

I agree he could have been faster yet blame must lay on the defending. His performance reminded me of Abbiati, fantastically commanding in situations where you expect one to falter yet slow on the natural reflexes to save the shots wide of the post.

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Post by The Franchise Fri Jun 13, 2014 12:31 am

Dont get people saying it should of been a draw.

Brazil were not at their best, but they were a step above Croatia. Brazil started of very cautiously, trying not to make mistakes rather than using the crowd to spur on their efforts.

And they held on at the end instead of going for the killer third, which came anyway on the break.

But inbetween those two spells, Brazil were certainly the better side and again, while not at their best, deserved winners.
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Post by futbol Fri Jun 13, 2014 12:33 am

Croatia sat way too deep. With the player material they have they could've seen more of the ball.

Didn't understand why Rakitic played as the deepest midfielder.

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Post by Hapless_Hans Fri Jun 13, 2014 12:36 am

The Franchise wrote:Dont get people saying it should of been a draw.

Brazil were not at their best, but they were a step above Croatia. Brazil started of very cautiously, trying not to make mistakes rather than using the crowd to spur on their efforts.

And they held on at the end instead of going for the killer third, which came anyway on the break.

But inbetween those two spells, Brazil were certainly the better side and again, while not at their best, deserved winners.


this misunderstanding keeps perpetuating.

It's not about "it should've been a draw".

But it MIGHT very well have been a draw, which would have been an interesting result, if not for the ridiculous dive and penalty.
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Post by The Franchise Fri Jun 13, 2014 12:38 am

It's very surprising as Kovac was the lone holding midfielder in the very adventerous 4132 they used to play, if anyone understands the importance of a true holder to protect the space, it would be him.

Far too much joy in that area for Brazil, Oscar drifted in, Neymar was in there, Dani Alves gets in there and Paulinho isnt afraid of make off ball runs through it. Just an overload of numbers.
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Post by Guest Fri Jun 13, 2014 12:42 am

Look like I was wrong and Blue and Ganso were right.

Oscar was absolutely insane.

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Post by The Franchise Fri Jun 13, 2014 12:44 am

Hans, you should only speak for yourself. Not everyone is sounding like that.
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Post by Hapless_Hans Fri Jun 13, 2014 12:47 am

obviously I can only speak for myself, but I don't really get how ref mistakes of that severity in that situation can be brushed aside by saying 'Brazil deserved to win'.
In fact that's exactly the thing, a mistake like that renders all those arguments irrelevant, and that's the frustrating thing about it.
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Post by The Franchise Fri Jun 13, 2014 12:52 am

I just dont think a draw would have been a "fair result" like people said or were hinting at.

What is fair?

Brazil was better and they won, so really thats about it.

Yes the pen was questionable. Shouldnt have gave it, but see why he did.

Just a big deal about nothing really.
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Post by RealGunner Fri Jun 13, 2014 12:53 am

What do you think of Brazil's chances(for the WC) after seeing that match Dani?
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Post by lszanto Fri Jun 13, 2014 12:56 am

Lovren was stupid enough to put his hands on him, I agree it's not a penalty but if a referee sees contact like that and a player go down they have to make a split second decision, the location of the tournament then obviously influences that decision towards the favor of Brazil so the kick is given. Same situation with no hands from Lovren = no penalty, pretty simple.

The overreaction on here though is hilarious, Croatia were rubbish, their only goal came from Dani Alves being stupid enough to try and press Croatia's keeper in possesion. You can't say either way whether or not the penalty had a sway on the result because we have no idea what would have happened had it not gone in.
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