Mr Nick09 wrote:Jese is not a CF, playing wide, crossing and dribbling, isnt the same as playing center, moving off the ball and finishing in the box. Also, jese is a greater talent than Morata, not even close, Jese pounded Morata in training and got more chances.

If Morata leaves, the only way he returns is if he becomes better than Benzema. good luck with that

Benzema's La Liga goals in his first season with Madrid = 8 goals (27 appearances)

Morata's La Liga goals in his first season with Madrid's first team = 8 goals (23 appearances)

The big difference is that Benzema is a natural team player who opens space with passing and only dribbles when it's needed... Suarez is more of a dribble first guy with passing coming off of the dribbling. The number of touches and how each is used is vastly different. Being the main scorer and being asked to play as a faciliating striker and secondary scorer are very different. It's not about finding ways to get yourself shots and one's ability to do so... it's about roles and mentality. If you gave Benz the green light to shoot whenever, i doubt he would average more than 5 shots per game. Why? He won't shoot it unless he feels he has a good chance to score. He won't take bad shots... he'd rather play it to a teammate in better position or hold it up and look for a better shot to come around. Just how he is.

Arquitescu wrote:Comparing statistics to compare Benzema and Suarez does not work considering Suarez is not nearly as direct and does not occupy the box as much as Benzema does, despite the Frenchman's #10 tendencies.

Suarez role in Liverpool has a substantial creative brunt on it to which supplies the more advanced forwards.

If we count shots taken? What can be derived from that is how well players such as Suarez and Cristiano afford themselves in positions to take the shots and how they create space for themselves.

that bs arq cause going by what you guys are saying, benz shouldn't touch suarez in anything when i just proved he did, while rotating and not being a focal point, if we take shot into account benz still doesn't take half the shot suarez does and suarez beat him by like 7 goals, there is nothing to prove that benz can't do what suarez did fact, he just has to be the worst cause too many people would have had egg on their faces to admit otherwise

same with higuain who everyone said was the better striker(not) yet didn't out score benz in the last 2 season, has 10 cl goals in 50+ games, but because he was a fighter() he was better, lets not forget we sold the wrong striker nonsense and how much morata was better too , as long as its putting down benzema its cool, but saying he is a great talent is so unbelievable this forum

Lol Z..... ok big guy.  Benz had back problems and various other off the field issues in his first year at Madrid.  It's not like he was in a normal state and scored 8.

And why don't you throw in the rest?  Benz has had 8 full pro seasons since he was 19.

Season 1:  27 goals 8 assists
Season 2:  31 goals 6 assists
Season 3:  23 goals 3 assists
Season 4:  9 goals 4 assists
Season 5:  26 goals 7 assists
Season 6:  32 goals 15 assists
Season 7:  20 goals 20 assists
Season 8:  24 goals 14 assists

Lets just cherry pick Benz' worse season by far and compare

Wouldn't Benzema be the focal point if he was better than Cristiano ?

Nobody ever said he was better than CR7. That's not the point of this... the point is that he's on a team where he can't be the focal point and main scorer. So comparing him to players who are focal points on other teams is just not accurate. In fact, because of CR7 being here (and Bale now), there isn't another similar CF role in the world. If you want to make a true comparison, look at how Ibra managed when second fiddle to Messi some years back or how Cavani did this year next to Ibra. It's a very different role.

That wasn't the point of my post lol. Just saying that players can develop and improve.

@Chad your hate for any player who competes with Benzema's spot is pretty sad. To this day I have no idea why you feel the need to protect him. At the very least can you please stop slagging Pipita and Morata while you do that? These guys are fan favourites and Benzema is not, so just get over it.

@nick come on bro, benz can still take a player in 1v1 , but this is what im talking about tho, the notion that benz can't do anything own his just cause nothing, non us know that will happen with him has focal point for sure, since we has seen him before at 21 raping prime manu, i don't think he will suck now cause he is not as fast as before , the reality check is gonna be legendary just brace yourselves

chad4401 wrote:

Arquitescu wrote:Comparing statistics to compare Benzema and Suarez does not work considering Suarez is not nearly as direct and does not occupy the box as much as Benzema does, despite the Frenchman's #10 tendencies.

Suarez role in Liverpool has a substantial creative brunt on it to which supplies the more advanced forwards.

If we count shots taken? What can be derived from that is how well players such as Suarez and Cristiano afford themselves in positions to take the shots and how they create space for themselves.

that bs arq cause going by what you guys are saying, benz shouldn't touch suarez in anything when i just proved he did, while rotating and not being a focal point, if we take shot into account benz still doesn't take half the shot suarez does and suarez beat him by like 7 goals, there is nothing to prove that benz can't do what suarez did fact, he just has to be the worst cause too many people would have had egg on their faces to admit otherwise

same with higuain who everyone said was the better striker(not) yet didn't out score benz in the last 2 season, has 10 cl goals in 50+ games, but because he was a fighter() he was better, lets not forget we sold the wrong striker nonsense and how much morata was better too , as long as its putting down benzema its cool, but saying he is a great talent is so unbelievable this forum

You attempted to prove Benzema's superiority by statistical inference, ignoring that players of these indirect ilk should not be judged by such a basic form of conclusion. It is already acknowledged that Benzema has the superior eye for the goal considering he is in the end, a centre forward. Luis Suarez for Liverpool has played on wide-left, wide-right, behind the striker and now currently in a role he supplies Daniel Sturridge while Benzema in Carlo or Mourinho's 4-2-3-1 and 4-3-3 has been a centre-forward. Yes, as Sports says and me in my Benzema thread that the Frenchman has the tendencies more of a #10 than a pure CF, yet compared to Suarez who is dropping deep, tracking back, occupying wide positions and tasked creative burden than Benzema; producing stats is invalid, especially considering the difference in roles.

You just have to see the difference between what Suarez and Benzema consistently produce on and off the ball as in terms of influence and causing utter havoc on the pitch, Suarez wins hands down.

The fault in your post also is that I'm attempting to play down Benzema's career and ability, which could not been further from the truth.

Higuain was being misused in Madrid as purely a poacher. Yes his finishing failed him yet under Rafael Benitez he has become a very complete player and was their best player in the UCL; which adds some dimension to your point if Benzema were to be centred around.

Morata and Higuain are your favorites Z, not fan favorites. In fact, Higuain is already completely forgotten at Madrid.

sportsczy wrote:Nobody ever said he was better than CR7.  That's not the point of this... the point is that he's on a team where he can't be the focal point and main scorer.  So comparing him to players who are focal points on other teams is just not accurate.  In fact, because of CR7 being here (and Bale now), there isn't another similar CF role in the world.  If you want to make a true comparison, look at how Ibra managed when second fiddle to Messi some years back or how Cavani did this year next to Ibra.  It's a very different role.

There's a fundamental difference between those two examples and Benzema's case. Benzema is perfectly happy with not being the focal point.

Not to mention that in Ibra's and Cavani's cases they were not allowed to play through the middle which is where they are best. CR and Bale are on the wings so Benz is still in the centre forward spot.

sportsczy wrote:Morata and Higuain are your favorites Z, not fan favorites.  In fact, Higuain is already completely forgotten at Madrid.

Yeah OK   

sportsczy wrote:Lol Z..... ok big guy.  Benz had back problems and various other off the field issues in his first year at Madrid.  It's not like he was in a normal state and scored 8.

And why don't you throw in the rest?  Benz has had 8 full pro seasons since he was 19.

Season 1:  27 goals 8 assists
Season 2:  31 goals 6 assists
Season 3:  23 goals 3 assists
Season 4:  9 goals 4 assists
Season 5:  26 goals 7 assists
Season 6:  32 goals 15 assists
Season 7:  20 goals 20 assists
Season 8:  24 goals 14 assists

Lets just cherry pick Benz' worse season by far and compare

Sports, I dislike when you throw out stats of Benzema considering he was a vastly different player in disparity between Lyon and Real Madrid.

Benzema of Lyon would be more apt a situation to use stats considering how direct he was yet using stats to justify Benzema's Real Madrid's performances is callous considering like Suarez, Ibra, etc, Benz is a player better judged by visual inference than just goal climbs and assist numbers. Why? Benzema of Real Madrid is closer to an Italian CF in his creative/#10 tendencies. Subtleties are missed by building THIS particular debate around numbers.

Better not to just use it as a reference point, no?

chad4401 wrote:@nick come on bro, benz can still take a player in 1v1 , but this is what im talking about tho, the notion that benz can't do anything own his just cause nothing, non us know that will happen with him has focal point for sure, since we has seen him before at 21 raping prime manu, i don't think he will suck now cause he is not as fast as before , the reality check is gonna be legendary just brace yourselves

No he cant. Anyway, it's interesting that i tell you that Benzema used to be a much better athlete and you interpret it as being fast...

dude you have no idea whether he will dominate or not, chances are, he will struggle to hold up the line like most traditional CF do, and to be the go to scorer or the team. That's also a reality that could happen. Speed isnt the most important thing for CF wen they have elite movements around the box (RVP), i dont think that's the case for benzema...

Anyway, if he does leave, it will be fun to see how he changes, because he will have to change.

That's not true.  Ibra dezones 3/4 of the time to get involved in build up and Cavani's role is to jump into the central striker role when that happens.  He does it...  but not well.  Cavani doesn't have the technique or football IQ to read the game like that.  He also is terrible at link up and his passing is very suspect.

And you don't know that Benz is happy about it...  he's actually not lol.  But he put the club's well being over his and he loved being at Real Madrid.  Never gets credit for this.  Sacrificed a lot of his game to make it work here.  

And what does "being happy about doing something" matter?   You're basically saying the Benz is a better professional than both Ibra and Cavani, which is true btw.

Ah so on top of it Benzema is not happy of being a starter in madrid? goodbye then

Zealous wrote:That wasn't the point of my post lol. Just saying that players can develop and improve.

@Chad your hate for any player who competes with Benzema's spot is pretty sad. To this day I have no idea why you feel the need to protect him. At the very least can you please stop slagging Pipita and Morata while you do that? These guys are fan favourites and Benzema is not, so just get over it.

im not hating anybody brah and being fan favourites mean fck all to me, end of the day benz has to be the worst just because random excuses , again going by you guys benz shouldn't even score 10 goals, nobody cares when he is playing injured, his work rate and how much he has improved has a pure 9 under carlo, nope weak mentality and lack aggression

I was responding to Z Arqi because he pointed out that Morata could be better than Benz by pointing out to Benz'' worst season ever.... i just wanted to point out that the comparison was self serving and ridiculous.

I think the assist stats jumping up at Madrid are pretty telling about how he's changed in his role at Lyon compared to Madrid.

@Nick. Benz was perfectly fine playing the lead role at Lyon. He's a better player now too. He's not less athletic now... he's a better athlete actually as his durability shows. He just changed his makeup: Since he was asked to hold up the ball a lot more and stay in the box, he got stronger so that he wouldn't get pushed around in traffic. At Lyon, he was built to get the ball in space and go at defenders after building up pace. What will he become when he's asked to become the lead again? I don't know. Depends on his teammates and the system. If he goes to Arsenal, i think it would be perfect for his style.

chad4401 wrote:

Zealous wrote:That wasn't the point of my post lol. Just saying that players can develop and improve.

@Chad your hate for any player who competes with Benzema's spot is pretty sad. To this day I have no idea why you feel the need to protect him. At the very least can you please stop slagging Pipita and Morata while you do that? These guys are fan favourites and Benzema is not, so just get over it.

im not hating anybody brah and being fan favourites mean fck all to me, end of the day benz has to be the worst just because random excuses , again going by you guys benz shouldn't even score 10 goals, nobody cares when he is playing injured, his work rate and how much he has improved has a pure 9 under carlo, nope weak mentality and lack aggression

IF there are some better than him, that doesn't make him the worst.

Mr Nick09 wrote:

chad4401 wrote:@nick come on bro, benz can still take a player in 1v1 , but this is what im talking about tho, the notion that benz can't do anything own his just cause nothing, non us know that will happen with him has focal point for sure, since we has seen him before at 21 raping prime manu, i don't think he will suck now cause he is not as fast as before , the reality check is gonna be legendary just brace yourselves

No he cant. Anyway, it's interesting that i tell you that Benzema used to be a much better athlete and you interpret it as being fast...

dude you have no idea whether he will dominate or not, chances are, he will struggle to hold up the line like most traditional CF do, and to be the go to scorer or the team. That's also a reality that could happen. Speed isnt the most important thing for CF wen they have elite movements around the box (RVP), i dont think that's the case for benzema...

Anyway, if he does leave, it will be fun to see how he changes, because he will have to change.

nick so much bs, your telling me benz never dribbled anyone this season ok then , benz isn't good at holding up the ball wtf am i reading? ok im done i have not learned my lesson it seems

Not i am not saying that Benzema never dribbles anyone, i am saying that he does it so rarely that it doesnt matter. It's not his game, simple as that, but it's a weapon he doesnt have.

Benzema is nowhere near the athlete he was at 21, Even Juninho is saying so lol. Go pull up a benzema vid on youtube, and watch benz start runs from deep and maintain speed over long distance, go past players like hot knife through butter. His agility and speed on short distance was terrific. What he has lost the most is his ability to set up his own shown in closed quarters, he used to be brilliant at it, like that goal vs utd. Now he is just a bit stronger. All his wieght, groin and back issues havent helped. How can you even say that he is better athlete now? no.

Mr Nick09 wrote:Ah so on top of it Benzema is not happy of being a starter in madrid? :lol:goodbye then

NO... i said he probably wasn't the happiest he could possibly be with his role next to CR7. But being at Madrid made him happier than giving up Madrid and getting his preferred role somewhere else. He made that choice. To say that Benz was thrilled with the sacrifices he's been asked to make is just not accurate. He made them because he loved Madrid and his personal ambitions were driven by trophies first and personal glory second. When he commits to a team, it's all about the team first.... he's said this a million times in interviews too when they ask him about it.

When asked about Higuain scoring well: "I'm actually happy for him since he's a friend and for Madrid since it means that the team is benefiting."

When asked about his lack of scoring opportunities: "Helping to create a goal or giving an assist is the same as scoring for me."

When asked about being a substitute: "We're in the middle of the season. Everything the coach want me to do to help the team, i will do it even if it means coming off the bench. Once the season is over, I'll start thinking about myself."

Etc.

@val its not about some players being better than him that a given, the point is he always has to be the worst at everything, based on rubbish like aggression and mentality, that why i bring up players like higuain who you guys said has the heart, mentality, aggression and a better pure forward, guess what happened? 10 cl goals in 50+ games that everyone pretends doesn't exist cause he is a fighter and love the club, aka popularity BS

If Benzema was to move to Arsenal for example, I can still see him scoring a decent amount of goals. He's clearly better than Giroud, so why wouldn't he do better? He doesn't have to think about being a leader or anything, just has to do his job.

Mr Nick09 wrote:Not i am not saying that Benzema never dribbles anyone, i am saying that he does it so rarely that it doesnt matter. It's not his game, simple as that, but it's a weapon he doesnt have.

Benzema is nowhere near the athlete he was at 21, Even Juninho is saying so lol. Go pull up a benzema vid on youtube, and watch benz start runs from deep and maintain speed over long distance, go past players like hot knife through butter. His agility and speed on short distance was terrific. What he has lost the most is his ability to set up his own shown in closed quarters, he used to be brilliant at it, like that goal vs barca. Now he is just a bit stronger. All his wieght, groin and back issues havent helped. How can you even say that he is better athlete now? no.

yeah not buying that just an excuse to give suarez the edge, end of the day benz can create his own shots when needed as well as dribble, its not his role here obviously, at lyon it was and he did has expected, benz is simply not an ego maniac and very professional, so if carlo wants him to play pure he does that or create he does that, nothing more than necessary if that means he lacks aggression and is mentally weak no prob.

chad4401 wrote:

Mr Nick09 wrote:Not i am not saying that Benzema never dribbles anyone, i am saying that he does it so rarely that it doesnt matter. It's not his game, simple as that, but it's a weapon he doesnt have.

Benzema is nowhere near the athlete he was at 21, Even Juninho is saying so lol. Go pull up a benzema vid on youtube, and watch benz start runs from deep and maintain speed over long distance, go past players like hot knife through butter. His agility and speed on short distance was terrific. What he has lost the most is his ability to set up his own shown in closed quarters, he used to be brilliant at it, like that goal vs barca. Now he is just a bit stronger. All his wieght, groin and back issues havent helped. How can you even say that he is better athlete now? no.

yeah not buying that just an excuse to give suarez the edge, end of the day benz can create his own shots when needed as well as dribble, its not his role here obviously, at lyon it was and he did has expected, benz is simply not an ego maniac and very professional, so if carlo wants him to play pure he does that or create he does that, nothing more than necessary if that means he lacks aggression and is mentally weak no prob.

He is not a top proffesional. If he was one he wouldn't have got fat like a pig when Zidane wasn't around. That might also come to weak mentality