Moyes Has destroyed an empire

Moyes is bad, but Fergie started destroying your "empire" long before Moyes was even hired.

You give Moyes Everton level players and are surprised United are where Everton would normally be on the table. Shocked

Motogp69 wrote:Moyes is bad, but Fergie started destroying your "empire" long before Moyes was even hired.

You give Moyes Everton level players and are surprised United are where Everton would normally be on the table. Shocked

Rooney, Van Persie, Mata, De Gea, Januzaj, Carrick are not Everton level players...

Oh dear, the bleetings of a modern Manchester United supporter further enforces that there is an unhealthy amount of unrealistic people still out there who feels the sport owes them success every time.

The real cause of Utd form this season is they as a club (not just Moyes) is the transition from having a manager and coaching staff that worked in 2012-2013 with no recent CL success to a new manager and new coaching staff in a season where other clubs have prospered and improved - whilst looking in the long term to compete in Europe.

anh165 wrote:Oh dear, the bleetings of a modern Manchester United supporter further enforces that there is an unhealthy amount of unrealistic people still out there who feels the sport owes them success every time.

The real cause of Utd form this season is they as a club (not just Moyes) is the transition from having a manager and coaching staff that worked in 2012-2013 with no recent CL success to a new manager and new coaching staff in a season where other clubs have prospered and improved - whilst looking in the long term to compete in Europe.

It's not about us winning everything in sight under Moyes. I accepted we weren't gonna win the title under him at the start of the season, and many other Utd fans did too.

The reason why we are officialy 'Moyes Out' is because he has shown no progression at all. We are regressing under him at a rapid rate. Our football under him is the worst I've ever seen. I won't go into detail right now as it would be me beating a dead horse. If you want to know our feelings and intricate points on our disastrous season under him, check out our 'The Official Moyes Out thread' in the Utd section.

Moyes- The only transitioning he has done is take last season's champions and turned them into a midtable outfit with their season pretty much done for in February.

Rooney almost never passes to RVP. I noticed that for a while now and checked the stats and turned out that Rooney made just 2 passes to RVP the entire game lol...something is going on.

Adit wrote:Rooney almost never passes to RVP. I noticed that for a while now and checked the stats and turned out that Rooney made just 2 passes to RVP the entire game lol...something is going on.

There is no understanding between them this season. I don't think they're even bothering in training to work on their partnership. The last time I remember them working together for a goal was v Fulham away when RVP asissted Rooney.

Or another thing is, how could they form a partnership when they are instructed to get it out wide as soon as they touch the ball.

The regression of Man Utd coached by Moyes was gradual and now it has reached the maximum level.
the defeat against Olimpiakos for 2-0 doesn't reflect even what the match showed in 90 minutes.
Oonly one shot and a squad that has grazed for the pitch without rage.
The weak clubs ( this United is not so anyway , it could compete for CL spot) have at least grit to overcome own lacks, this United of Moyes was a dead body in pitch , and it was a  Champions League  round, where you find motivations ... there was not even this .
This trasmitted Moyes to a squad.
Insecurity that causes apathy.
I agree about Fergie could manage better last 2 years, I didn't understand signings as Ashley Young, or not to buy a great  midfielder and in 2012 you are obliged to recall Scholes ... but this is not an excuse for Moyes who thought to improve this squad with Fellaini.
The confusion, the inability about how to handle the situation was seen in September.
And it was a continue regression who reached the highest point in Greece, the last seasonal target

Robespierre wrote:The regression of Man Utd coached by Moyes was gradual and now it has reached the maximum level.
the defeat against Olimpiakos for 2-0 doesn't reflect even what the match showed in 90 minutes.
Oonly one shot and a squad that has grazed for the pitch without rage.
The weak clubs ( this United is not so anyway , it could compete for CL spot) have at least grit to overcome own lacks, this United of Moyes was a dead body in pitch , and it was a  Champions League  round, where you find motivations ... there was not even this .
This trasmitted Moyes to a squad.
Insecurity that causes apathy.
I agree about Fergie could manage better last 2 years, I didn't understand signings as Ashley Young, or not to buy a great  midfielder and in 2012 you are obliged to recall Scholes ... but this is not an excuse for Moyes who thought to improve this squad with Fellaini.
The confusion, the inability about how to handle the situation was seen in September.
And it was a continue regression who reached the highest point in Greece, the last seasonal target

Well said Robes.

His body language in the dug out area tells you of a man who is struggling for ideas when things are not working out. Nothing about him is inspiring and it's no wonder the players looked like they couldn't give a shet on Tuesday.

They clearly are not playing for him and want him out.

Moyes is way too negative to be running a club like United

Of course UTD fans are pissed, most of them would accept a CL spot under Moyes, without a real title challenge. But to take over a squad that won the title, add a player and then somehow finish outside of the top 4 and lose to Olympiakos of all teams is just awful.

A manager who had an actual gameplan and a clue would have definitely had United in a CL spot. Yeah, their midfield is bad but there are ways to compensate for that. Moyes is out of his depth.

Adit wrote:Rooney almost never passes to RVP. I noticed that for a while now and checked the stats and turned out that Rooney made just 2 passes to RVP the entire game lol...something is going on.

Agreed. Imo, when Kagawa and Rooney have played together they've had the best chemistry. I can't say anything about Mata, he's only played one game as a no.10

Moyes was always a long term project when he was appointed. It could take a few years for Man Utd to get back to where they were. Man Utd doing poorly in the first season was expected. Also it's not like Man Utd are in the relegation zone or anything, they're 6th, which isn't too bad when you consider the amount of top teams in the PL.

When Ferguson was appointed, he at first also struggled for a few seasons and was almost sacked. But he turned it around and the rest was history.

If Man Utd wanted instant success, they should have gone for someone proven like Mourinho.

We didn't go for Mourinho because Sir Bobby doesn't like Mourinho's antics.

The SAF and Moyes situation is not comparable

Yohan Modric wrote:Moyes was always a long term project when he was appointed. It could take a few years for Man Utd to get back to where they were. Man Utd doing poorly in the first season was expected. Also it's not like Man Utd are in the relegation zone or anything, they're 6th, which isn't too bad when you consider the amount of top teams in the PL.

When Ferguson was appointed, he at first also struggled for a few seasons and was almost sacked. But he turned it around and the rest was history.

If Man Utd wanted instant success, they should have gone for someone proven like Mourinho.

again...this team is far more capable of doing better than what they are showing. Moyes is failing to get the best out them.

Moyes is sole reason and biggest problem. He is awfully negative in his tactics and always reverts to his old and unproven methods whenever we've showed an ounce of improvement in the previous game. It's like he is trying to fail on purpose.

And that's basically why we have been so inconsistent. He doesn't have a clue what's his best team and how to get the best out of them. Every team selection and tactics, no matter who the opposition is, is a shot in dark 'hopefully we get something from this game' formula.

From Fergie himself

I was proud and relieved to be delivering this fine group of players and staff into David’s care.

Now I can enjoy games the way Bobby Charlton has been able to since he retired.
You see Bobby after a victory and his eyes are blazing, he’s rubbing his hands. He loves it. I want
that. I want to be able to attend European ties and tell people: I’m proud of this team, this is a great club.

That deception

Yohan Modric wrote:Man Utd doing poorly in the first season was expected

Doing poorly would mean United were, like, 3rd or 4th, a couple of points off the top and maybe winning the CC, not languishing in 6th/7th a whole 10 points off of Europe and out of almost every competition by March

I think United fans knew it would be a difficult first season after SAF, but I think Moyes surpassed even their expectations

Busby Babe wrote:From Fergie himself

I was proud and relieved to be delivering this fine group of players and staff into David’s care.

Now I can enjoy games the way Bobby Charlton has been able to since he retired.
You see Bobby after a victory and his eyes are blazing, he’s rubbing his hands. He loves it. I want
that. I want to be able to attend European ties and tell people: I’m proud of this team, this is a great club.

That deception

  That part about seeing European games, at best it seems Europa now   

I knew someone would say that

RED wrote:

Yohan Modric wrote:Moyes was always a long term project when he was appointed. It could take a few years for Man Utd to get back to where they were. Man Utd doing poorly in the first season was expected. Also it's not like Man Utd are in the relegation zone or anything, they're 6th, which isn't too bad when you consider the amount of top teams in the PL.

When Ferguson was appointed, he at first also struggled for a few seasons and was almost sacked. But he turned it around and the rest was history.

If Man Utd wanted instant success, they should have gone for someone proven like Mourinho.

again...this team is far more capable of doing better than what they are showing. Moyes is failing to get the best out them.

Moyes is sole reason and biggest problem. He is awfully negative in his tactics and always reverts to his old and unproven methods whenever we've showed an ounce of improvement in the previous game. It's like he is trying to fail on purpose.

And that's basically why we have been so inconsistent. He doesn't have a clue what's his best team and how to get the best out of them. Every team selection and tactics, no matter who the opposition is, is a shot in dark 'hopefully we get something from this game' formula.

Moyes was the manager of a midtable club for like 10 years. The tactics he played there and the tactics he's expected to play at Man Utd differ. Maybe he just needs time to work out what works and what doesn't. It's a completely new experience for him managing one of the biggest clubs in the World. He's been in the job for like 6-7 months and Man Utd are 6th, which isn't all that bad. Not to mention he's never competed in the CL with a top club. He just lacks experience. However within the next few seasons, there's a possibility he'll improve as gets to know his team better. Ferguson left him a pretty average team and transfer guy at Man Utd failed to secure any top signings last summer. It was only this January they managed to sign Mata, however a team can't be rebuilt in January.

As I said, Ferguson also struggled in his first few years and won his first PL title 7 years after he was appointed. Obviously 7 years would be too long considering Man Utd's recent success, which is why it would be best to give Moyes a few seasons.

Yohan Modric wrote:

RED wrote:

Yohan Modric wrote:Moyes was always a long term project when he was appointed. It could take a few years for Man Utd to get back to where they were. Man Utd doing poorly in the first season was expected. Also it's not like Man Utd are in the relegation zone or anything, they're 6th, which isn't too bad when you consider the amount of top teams in the PL.

When Ferguson was appointed, he at first also struggled for a few seasons and was almost sacked. But he turned it around and the rest was history.

If Man Utd wanted instant success, they should have gone for someone proven like Mourinho.

again...this team is far more capable of doing better than what they are showing. Moyes is failing to get the best out them.

Moyes is sole reason and biggest problem. He is awfully negative in his tactics and always reverts to his old and unproven methods whenever we've showed an ounce of improvement in the previous game. It's like he is trying to fail on purpose.

And that's basically why we have been so inconsistent. He doesn't have a clue what's his best team and how to get the best out of them. Every team selection and tactics, no matter who the opposition is, is a shot in dark 'hopefully we get something from this game' formula.

Moyes was the manager of a midtable club for like 10 years. The tactics he played there and the tactics he's expected to play at Man Utd differ. Maybe he just needs time to work out what works and what doesn't. It's a completely new experience for him managing one of the biggest clubs in the World. He's been in the job for like 6-7 months and Man Utd are 6th, which isn't all that bad. Not to mention he's never competed in the CL with a top club. He just lacks experience. However within the next few seasons, there's a possibility he'll improve as gets to know his team better. Ferguson left him a pretty average team and transfer guy at Man Utd failed to secure any top signings last summer. It was only this January they managed to sign Mata, however a team can't be rebuilt in January.

As I said, Ferguson also struggled in his first few years and won his first PL title 7 years after he was appointed. Obviously 7 years would be too long considering Man Utd's recent success, which is why it would be best to give Moyes a few seasons.

Just watch United this season...I dare you. And come back to me and tell why this man deserves more time to implement his style(I can't believe I used that word) and why he should be entrusted to bring in his own players!

It's easy for you, a Real Madrid fan, to sit back and say "he deserves more time" while your team is flying atm. At any other club, he would have been sacked 3 months ago.

Oh and I don't care what he did at Everton. Yeah 10 years and not a single trophy, only 2 finals and a semi final in the FA Cup. Ahh diddums...what an achievement. He hid under the whole 'shoestring budget' excuse and used it as a safty blanket from criticism.

Now he has been found out. I hope he gets a job at Villa or NewC...because that's his level.

I think if you looked at the numbers, you'll find that the "giving managers more time because in the long term you'll reap the rewards" theory is a myth. A big club is just as likely to succeed with any other decent manager in the hot seat.

It's about getting the right man to do the job not giving the wrong man more time.

You only give certain managers more time nowadays if;

a) they have a special connection to the club because he understands the club's values and will eventually be able to instil those values into the players (someone like Seedorf or Simione),

b) has a clear ideology of how the club will play as well as the team's footballing identity (Rodgers and Martinez come to mind)

c) he is guiding (and is clearly qualified to guide) the club through a critical phase in off the pitch matters (like Wenger and Arsenal's stadium debt which is the only reason he's still at Arsenal imo)

Moyes has none of these things going for him, he has no unique selling point other than the fact that Sir Alex passed the torch to him. Seriously being chosen by Sir Alex is pretty much the only semi impressive thing that Moyes can add to his CV ffs, he has nothing else going for him.

Anyway, maybe he'll turn it around but to my knowledge I don't recall any manager bouncing back from something like this.

No thanks RED.

What your dealing with now with Moyes I have had to deal with Pardew, Allardyce and Souness.

I'd rather slit my own throat than see another negative farce of a manager come in.

Totally agree with you there, Zealous.

2 things are saving Moyes atm. 1) SAF's backing and SAF's ego and stubborness to admit he got the decision wrong and put Moyes out of his misery

2) United's philosophy of sticking with the manager and trying to be different to other clubs who have a managerial revolving door.

Sometimes, a club need to step back and admit...'whoah, we've got it completely wrong. Let's cut our losses, no matter the cost and get someone in who can start the fix up process immediately'.

edit; lol sorry, Mole.

Yohan Modric wrote:Moyes was always a long term project when he was appointed. It could take a few years for Man Utd to get back to where they were. Man Utd doing poorly in the first season was expected. Also it's not like Man Utd are in the relegation zone or anything, they're 6th, which isn't too bad when you consider the amount of top teams in the PL.

When Ferguson was appointed, he at first also struggled for a few seasons and was almost sacked. But he turned it around and the rest was history.

If Man Utd wanted instant success, they should have gone for someone proven like Mourinho.

100% Agreed.

watch this, and listen to him.



Moyes needs at least 4 more transfer windows to shape his own squad and style. It'll be unfair sacking him now. Osman, Barkley, and Piennar in summer for 100M will go a long way of steadying the ship and solving some of the issues.

Moyes just isn't good enough. It's as simple as that. Giving hime more time is more wasted time. You don't need 5 years to get that. It's not even about results. Watch a game in August, a game in November and a recent game and you'll realise this team doesn't improve. You can see teams struggle resultwise but still have a good game plan and get better. That's when I'd say stick to the manager for a bit longer, give him more time. But I don't see that with Moyes. All I see is the same shit every week. Well in fact it even gets worse.

RED wrote:

Yohan Modric wrote:

RED wrote:

again...this team is far more capable of doing better than what they are showing. Moyes is failing to get the best out them.

Moyes is sole reason and biggest problem. He is awfully negative in his tactics and always reverts to his old and unproven methods whenever we've showed an ounce of improvement in the previous game. It's like he is trying to fail on purpose.

And that's basically why we have been so inconsistent. He doesn't have a clue what's his best team and how to get the best out of them. Every team selection and tactics, no matter who the opposition is, is a shot in dark 'hopefully we get something from this game' formula.

Moyes was the manager of a midtable club for like 10 years. The tactics he played there and the tactics he's expected to play at Man Utd differ. Maybe he just needs time to work out what works and what doesn't. It's a completely new experience for him managing one of the biggest clubs in the World. He's been in the job for like 6-7 months and Man Utd are 6th, which isn't all that bad. Not to mention he's never competed in the CL with a top club. He just lacks experience. However within the next few seasons, there's a possibility he'll improve as gets to know his team better. Ferguson left him a pretty average team and transfer guy at Man Utd failed to secure any top signings last summer. It was only this January they managed to sign Mata, however a team can't be rebuilt in January.

As I said, Ferguson also struggled in his first few years and won his first PL title 7 years after he was appointed. Obviously 7 years would be too long considering Man Utd's recent success, which is why it would be best to give Moyes a few seasons.

Just watch United this season...I dare you. And come back to me and tell why this man deserves more time to implement his style(I can't believe I used that word) and why he should be entrusted to bring in his own players!

It's easy for you, a Real Madrid fan, to sit back and say "he deserves more time" while your team is flying atm. At any other club, he would have been sacked 3 months ago.

Oh and I don't care what he did at Everton. Yeah 10 years and not a single trophy, only 2 finals and a semi final in the FA Cup. Ahh diddums...what an achievement. He hid under the whole 'shoestring budget' excuse and used it as a safty blanket from criticism.

Now he has been found out. I hope he gets a job at Villa or NewC...because that's his level.

I agree, at any other top club he would have most likely been sacked by now. Except Moyes was appointed for the long term, which means the current problems Man Utd are facing were to be expected. If he wasn't appointed for the long term, I'd definitely be in favour or sacking him. In fact if it was Real Madrid, I would have suggested we sack him after a month. As I said, if Man Utd wanted instant success, why did they hire him in the first place?

Yohan Modric wrote:Moyes was always a long term project when he was appointed. It could take a few years for Man Utd to get back to where they were. Man Utd doing poorly in the first season was expected. Also it's not like Man Utd are in the relegation zone or anything, they're 6th, which isn't too bad when you consider the amount of top teams in the PL.

When Ferguson was appointed, he at first also struggled for a few seasons and was almost sacked. But he turned it around and the rest was history.

If Man Utd wanted instant success, they should have gone for someone proven like Mourinho.

I agree .Moyes must be given time . Hopefully sees out his 6 year contract.Can't beat this entertainment