Re: Are Bundesliga and Serie A done?

by McLewis Fri 31 Jan 2014, 12:11

DeviAngel wrote:So are you saying that Juve aren't allowed to make slip ups ? We are 6p ahead bro don't worry the scudetto is ours

With a Roma side who are hungry on your heels, that's absolutely right.

If Juve want that 3rd title, slip ups are not allowed. I would think that Juve fans would agree with me on this.

It's puzzling and mildly amusing that I'm getting push back on it.

by Lord Spencer Fri 31 Jan 2014, 12:35

McLewis wrote:
DeviAngel wrote:So are you saying that Juve aren't allowed to make slip ups ? We are 6p ahead bro don't worry the scudetto is ours

With a Roma side who are hungry on your heels, that's absolutely right.

If Juve want that 3rd title, slip ups are not allowed. I would think that Juve fans would agree with me on this.

It's puzzling and mildly amusing that I'm getting push back on it.

McLewis: I am not really interested with the Scudetto.
Others: YOU LIE, you MUST be wanting it sooo bad

McLewis: OK, if Juve slip up I won't be sad that we get it
Others: HAH, PHAT CHANCE THAT IS HAPPENING, JUST KEEP DREAMING ABOUT THAT SCUDETTO BRAH

McLewis: confused

by McLewis Fri 31 Jan 2014, 12:52

I'm a Romanista, Spence....we are naturally high strung when the team plays this well and we still remember what happened in 2008 and 2011. I still don't think some of us got over what happened in those seasons.

I've just learned to temper my expectations and to stay consistent. We started this campaign trying to get back in the CL. That was our top objective.

For me, that hasn't changed.

by Lord Spencer Fri 31 Jan 2014, 14:43

McLewis wrote:I'm a Romanista, Spence....we are naturally high strung when the team plays this well and we still remember what happened in 2008 and 2011. I still don't think some of us got over what happened in those seasons.

I've just learned to temper my expectations and to stay consistent. We started this campaign trying to get back in the CL. That was our top objective.

For me, that hasn't changed.

I was just having a laugh at the whole situation, including Devi actually saying it is okay for Juve to slip up to scrubs Lazio Laughing

by DeviAngel Fri 31 Jan 2014, 16:49

Lord Spencer wrote:
McLewis wrote:I'm a Romanista, Spence....we are naturally high strung when the team plays this well and we still remember what happened in 2008 and 2011. I still don't think some of us got over what happened in those seasons.

I've just learned to temper my expectations and to stay consistent. We started this campaign trying to get back in the CL. That was our top objective.

For me, that hasn't changed.

I was just having a laugh at the whole situation, including Devi actually saying it is okay for Juve to slip up to scrubs Lazio

It is because every club is allowed to slip up in a season plus we were 1 man down and the ball just wouldn't go in lol. Let's press the panic button in Juve now because we slipped up against Lazio.

by McLewis Fri 31 Jan 2014, 18:23

DeviAngel wrote:
Lord Spencer wrote:
McLewis wrote:I'm a Romanista, Spence....we are naturally high strung when the team plays this well and we still remember what happened in 2008 and 2011. I still don't think some of us got over what happened in those seasons.

I've just learned to temper my expectations and to stay consistent. We started this campaign trying to get back in the CL. That was our top objective.

For me, that hasn't changed.

I was just having a laugh at the whole situation, including Devi actually saying it is okay for Juve to slip up to scrubs Lazio

It is because every club is allowed to slip up in a season plus we were 1 man down and the ball just wouldn't go in lol. Let's press the panic button in Juve now because we slipped up against Lazio.

No one's saying that.

Juve have been nigh on invincible for large parts of this season, smashing teams ruthlessly (Roma included unfortunately) and now they've drawn a game they were honestly expected to win. It really doesn't matter that Lazio are absolute scrubs or that Juve were down a man or Marchetti had the game of his life/Juve's finishing was awful....none that really matters in the end. Juve failed to win this game when it really should've. That's what matters and that's what people have seized on. That's the definition of a slip up. When a team that is used to winning doesn't win, this tends to cause ripples and waves. That's what happened here.

by DeviAngel Sat 01 Feb 2014, 17:17

McLewis wrote:
DeviAngel wrote:
Lord Spencer wrote:
McLewis wrote:I'm a Romanista, Spence....we are naturally high strung when the team plays this well and we still remember what happened in 2008 and 2011. I still don't think some of us got over what happened in those seasons.

I've just learned to temper my expectations and to stay consistent. We started this campaign trying to get back in the CL. That was our top objective.

For me, that hasn't changed.

I was just having a laugh at the whole situation, including Devi actually saying it is okay for Juve to slip up to scrubs Lazio

It is because every club is allowed to slip up in a season plus we were 1 man down and the ball just wouldn't go in lol. Let's press the panic button in Juve now because we slipped up against Lazio.

No one's saying that.

Juve have been nigh on invincible for large parts of this season, smashing teams ruthlessly (Roma included unfortunately) and now they've drawn a game they were honestly expected to win. It really doesn't matter that Lazio are absolute scrubs or that Juve were down a man or Marchetti had the game of his life/Juve's finishing was awful....none that really matters in the end. Juve failed to win this game when it really should've. That's what matters and that's what people have seized on. That's the definition of a slip up. When a team that is used to winning doesn't win, this tends to cause ripples and waves. That's what happened here.

I get that but its happening for wrong reasons ( the ripples and waves), It's only normal those things to happen in a season that's what I'm saying all clubs have that happening to them.

by Art Morte Mon 24 Feb 2014, 10:39

Bump.

Hapless_Hans wrote:
Art Morte wrote:Bundesliga's title race was over before a ball was kicked. Injuries to Dortmund or anyone else mean nothing, they are bound to happen, the best teams cope with them.

Bayern Munich won the last season by 25 points ffs, of course they were going to win this season, too. The only question is whether they will win by more or less than 25 points.

I have to call bullshit on this one. Complete, utter bullshit.

Bayern won the Bundesliga as many times in the last decade as Man Utd. Utd won the league last year by how many points? 15 or something? So that was decided before a ball was kicked, too?
Like Utd, Bayern had a change in manager as well, in case you forgot.

Dortmund strengthened in summer, Mkhitaryan and Aubameyang were instant hits, and they started off very strong.

This 'it was decided bla bla' is just knee-jerk and hindsight infused talk by people trying to be clever and extra blasé, sorry.

Do you watch the league? Teams like Mainz and Freiburg, or *bleep* Hertha this season, tend to pull off really strong performances against us, every goddamn point has to be worked for, week in week out.

We'll in all likelyhood win the league again as we have a well-functioning team, and because Pep has done some simply outstanding work, more than could ever be expected.
Keeping in mind we had to deal with long term injuries for Schweinsteiger, Götze, Thiago, Martinez, Robben, Shaquiri, Pizarro (and Badstuber of course) and short injuries for Lahm and Ribery.

Dortmund was even more heavily hit by injuries, that's why their comparative lack of depth showed earlier in the season than usual.

None of this is 'decided before a ball is kicked'. Nonsense.

A 19 point gap after 22 games. Do you still maintain that Bundesliga was not decided before it even started? Smile

by rwo power Mon 24 Feb 2014, 11:03

Art Morte wrote:A 19 point gap after 22 games. Do you still maintain that Bundesliga was not decided before it even started?

Well, I do. No one expected *that* many injuries at Dortmund and Schalke. Fortunately at least the latter are recovering now - which you can see in a streak of the last 8 competitive matches without defeat, 6 of them with a clean sheet.

by Hapless_Hans Mon 24 Feb 2014, 11:06

Art Morte wrote:Bump.

Hapless_Hans wrote:
Art Morte wrote:Bundesliga's title race was over before a ball was kicked. Injuries to Dortmund or anyone else mean nothing, they are bound to happen, the best teams cope with them.

Bayern Munich won the last season by 25 points ffs, of course they were going to win this season, too. The only question is whether they will win by more or less than 25 points.

I have to call bullshit on this one. Complete, utter bullshit.

Bayern won the Bundesliga as many times in the last decade as Man Utd. Utd won the league last year by how many points? 15 or something? So that was decided before a ball was kicked, too?
Like Utd, Bayern had a change in manager as well, in case you forgot.

Dortmund strengthened in summer, Mkhitaryan and Aubameyang were instant hits, and they started off very strong.

This 'it was decided bla bla' is just knee-jerk and hindsight infused talk by people trying to be clever and extra blasé, sorry.

Do you watch the league? Teams like Mainz and Freiburg, or *bleep* Hertha this season, tend to pull off really strong performances against us, every goddamn point has to be worked for, week in week out.

We'll in all likelyhood win the league again as we have a well-functioning team, and because Pep has done some simply outstanding work, more than could ever be expected.
Keeping in mind we had to deal with long term injuries for Schweinsteiger, Götze, Thiago, Martinez, Robben, Shaquiri, Pizarro (and Badstuber of course) and short injuries for Lahm and Ribery.

Dortmund was even more heavily hit by injuries, that's why their comparative lack of depth showed earlier in the season than usual.

None of this is 'decided before a ball is kicked'. Nonsense.

A 19 point gap after 22 games. Do you still maintain that Bundesliga was not decided before it even started?

Can't you the the lack of logic? Because NOW there's a huge gap, it was decided before the season already?
Again, you think these record wins come all by themselves?

by Art Morte Mon 24 Feb 2014, 13:04

A 25 point gap at the end of last season, by far the richest club in the league, who also buy players off their main rival.

Injuries or not, to me it seemed so obvious before the season started that Bayern would walk this, that I would have found it amusing if someone claimed back then that others have a realistic chance of the title. Now, as the massive gap after 22 games clearly shows the Bundesliga titled was decided before a ball was kicked, I find it outright funny that people still maintain it was all to play for.

by rwo power Mon 24 Feb 2014, 13:11

So in 2011/12 Bayern weren't the richest club etc? But in that season strangely Dortmund won the league with 18 points before Bayern and that was before Dortmund actually earned a profit like in the last two years, and their revenue was considerably lower than Bayern's.

by Hapless_Hans Mon 24 Feb 2014, 13:14

Just because, with our financial advantage, the league is ours to lose and we're always the clear favourite doesn't mean that it is DECIDED beforehand.
Arguing that is ahistorical and ignoring that games actually have to be played and won, which in no way always works for the favourite.

by Art Morte Mon 24 Feb 2014, 13:42

rwo power wrote:So in 2011/12 Bayern weren't the richest club etc? But in that season strangely Dortmund won the league with 18 points before Bayern and that was before Dortmund actually earned a profit like in the last two years, and their revenue was considerably lower than Bayern's.

18 points? Don't you mean eight? If Wikipedia is to be believed, Dortmund won by 8 points in 2011-12.

Hapless_Hans wrote:Just because, with our financial advantage, the league is ours to lose and we're always the clear favourite doesn't mean that it is DECIDED beforehand.
Arguing that is ahistorical and ignoring that games actually have to be played and won, which in no way always works for the favourite.

To both of you: Put it in context and look at the previous season. A 25 point gap. Have the best squad in the league and it doesn't get any weaker, not through unwanted departures, not through retirements, not through key players declining. If anything, some younger players get even better and there's money available to buy pretty much anyone the manager could want. Other clubs having to fight off offers for their star players.

I'm not saying the Bundesliga is decided for years and years to come, because all clubs have cycles, you can never prepare for them impeccably. But between last season and this season, when you look at all these factors, I just found it obvious that no one could challenge Bayern this year and that therefore the title was indeed decided before the season kicked off.

The odds in this moment in time were just so very clearly stacked in Bayern's favour.

by Lord Spencer Mon 24 Feb 2014, 13:51

Art is right. It is not every season that Bayern is obviously favorites. This is the strongest Bayern in the last 20 years, and is at the peak of its cycle.

With all their ability, and with the obvious lack of depth of their challengers, anyone could have bet his house on them winning the leauge and got nothing because of how high the rates are in favor of Bayern.

by rwo power Mon 24 Feb 2014, 13:51

Art Morte wrote:18 points? Don't you mean eight? If Wikipedia is to be believed, Dortmund won by 8 points in 2011-12.

Eep. That shows I shouldn't try to calculate stuff while I'm busy at work. Mea culpa.

by Hapless_Hans Mon 24 Feb 2014, 13:55

Art Morte wrote:
rwo power wrote:So in 2011/12 Bayern weren't the richest club etc? But in that season strangely Dortmund won the league with 18 points before Bayern and that was before Dortmund actually earned a profit like in the last two years, and their revenue was considerably lower than Bayern's.

18 points? Don't you mean eight? If Wikipedia is to be believed, Dortmund won by 8 points in 2011-12.

Hapless_Hans wrote:Just because, with our financial advantage, the league is ours to lose and we're always the clear favourite doesn't mean that it is DECIDED beforehand.
Arguing that is ahistorical and ignoring that games actually have to be played and won, which in no way always works for the favourite.

To both of you: Put it in context and look at the previous season. A 25 point gap. Have the best squad in the league and it doesn't get any weaker, not through unwanted departures, not through retirements, not through key players declining. If anything, some younger players get even better and there's money available to buy pretty much anyone the manager could want. Other clubs having to fight off offers for their star players.

I'm not saying the Bundesliga is decided for years and years to come, because all clubs have cycles, you can never prepare for them impeccably. But between last season and this season, when you look at all these factors, I just found it obvious that no one could challenge Bayern this year and that therefore the title was indeed decided before the season kicked off.

The odds in this moment in time were just so very clearly stacked in Bayern's favour.

That's all true of course.
But then with Pep a new manager came in, and although unlike some posts I read dating from there I was more excited than worried, with a new manager always comes incertainty, that's why it wasn't 100% sure how consistent our team would perform after a season of overkill, with a new manager.
Plus Dortmund started strong, their new aquisition were instant hits in the beginning, I was anticipating them to be much more of a challenge. Injuries and resulting inconsistency hit them pretty early, and we played crazily consistent.

So while I of course expected us to win the season, I have to disagree with the 'decided beforehand' thing, because for me it minimizes the actually astonishing work of Pep and my team.
You can tell me you were anticipating us to win the league, but you can't tell me it was decided beforehand Pep would top Jupp's alltime record point count?
But I guess our differences are more semantically.

by BarrileteCosmico Fri 21 Mar 2014, 03:21

Just a friendly reminder that if Bayern win the next 2 games they mathematically win the league (March 25). 23 point gap right now. Laughing

by Doc Fri 21 Mar 2014, 03:28

Don't think I ever won a league with a team in Football Manager so early and that is a damn game. Championship Manager I did though...

by Gil Fri 21 Mar 2014, 04:27

BarrileteCosmico wrote:Just a friendly reminder that if Bayern win the next 2 games they mathematically win the league (March 25). 23 point gap right now.

Lol at a foreigner dominating that scrub League in only his first season. Laughing

Already the best coach in German history.