Most goals + assists in year 2013

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Post by Pip Thu Oct 31, 2013 5:23 am

Giggity5313 wrote:Oh yeah because ribery carried his team.. rightt Rolling Eyes
Put ronaldo there and bayern would have still won.
Donuts showing his intelligence by using one moment in a game to judge a players ability :bow:
I doubt that. Bayern clearly do not need another wide forward -- if you can even call Cristiano that. They need an extremely hard-working creator, a combination you will rarely find in world football. Cristiano's best quality now is his goalscoring; Bayern evidently did not need a prolific goal scorer in order to win the quadruple. Funnily enough, the 2012/13 Bayern side are the only treble-winning team not to have a player score 25 goals in a season, and to have their top scorer not have 15 league goals in a season.

1966/67 Celtic - Joe McBride (35 goals, 33 league goals)
1971/72 Ajax - Johan Cruijff (33 goals, 25 league goals)
1987/88 PSV - Wim Kieft (31 goals, 29 league goals)
1998/99 Man Utd - Dwight Yorke (29 goals, 18 league goals)
2008/09 Barcelona - Lionel Messi (38 goals, 23 league goals)
2009/10 Internazionale - Diego Milito (30 goals, 22 league goals)
2012/13 Bayern -  Thomas Müller (23 goals, 13 league goals)

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Post by Footyfan Thu Oct 31, 2013 12:04 pm

Can we have stats Minus PK's because Ribery, Robben does not take PK's while Messi or CR gets 20 Pk's to boost the stats apart from some horrible defenses in La Liga.

Goals
Asssists
Key Passes

Not including PK's will be a good idea.
Stats should all outing NT's and Super-Cup's too.

Another Yard-Stick is to Compare Goals + Assists + Key Passes against CHL and Top 5 or Top 10 Teams in the League

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Post by zigra Thu Oct 31, 2013 1:11 pm

No time to look for the key passes but if I made no mistake both Messi and Ronaldo scored 8 penalty goals in 2013 (including international games). Without penalties the stats should be:
Messi 35 goals, 19 assists | C.Ronaldo 46 goals 14 assists
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Post by harhar11 Thu Oct 31, 2013 1:24 pm

Footyfan wrote:Can we have stats Minus PK's because Ribery, Robben does not take PK's while Messi or CR gets 20 Pk's to boost the stats apart from some horrible defenses in La Liga.

Goals
Asssists
Key Passes

Not including PK's will be a good idea.
Stats should all outing NT's and Super-Cup's too.

Another Yard-Stick is to Compare Goals + Assists +  Key Passes against CHL and Top 5 or Top 10 Teams in the League
Well, Messi once scored 5 goals against a German team. Maybe the defence in bundesliga ain't that much better?

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Post by Red Alert Thu Oct 31, 2013 1:34 pm

Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:
Giggity5313 wrote:Messi good at defending? Yeah :lol:messi and ronaldo do absoluely zero defense... ribery over ronaldo is some strong bs
What did Ronaldo do last year apart from not turn up when it mattered? Ribery was the most influential player in the treble winning team.

Stats mean f*ck all.... might as well call it Balon Stat'or because that's the only criteria it seems.

When did Ronaldo not turn up in 2013???

Ronaldo performed despite having a careless Mourinho as manager, and he's carrying Carlo now despite losing one of the best number 10s in the world replaced with Gareth f*cking Bale from all players. Take Ronaldo out of this Madrid side and they're not a threat to any cups or competitions.

Ribery is lucky he's in a Bayern team where he's not the focal point and the whole playing style is team orientated so he isn't closed down as much. And I mean no disrespect to Ribery's season, it was an amazing one, but put him in this Madrid side and he'd be half the player he was at Bayern.
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Post by FennecFox7 Thu Oct 31, 2013 4:52 pm

its ok red he expected ronaldo to dribble the whole defense and midfield against dortmund when its a team game Rolling Eyes
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Post by Pip Thu Oct 31, 2013 5:02 pm

Ribéry is the focal point at Bayern, though. And he was often double-marked in matches, especially in Bundesliga matches.

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Post by FennecFox7 Thu Oct 31, 2013 6:37 pm

Lol messi and ronaldo are also double marked.. so that part of your point is invalid

Messi should obviously win it, if anyone saw how poor barca was last season and the fact he carried their sorry asses to the semi finals is impressive enough.

This argument that la liga is "Easy to score in".. sure you can use it. But the bundesliga is even easier Laughing defenses are horrid in the bundesliga
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Post by Arquitecto Thu Oct 31, 2013 6:43 pm

Comparing Ribery to Cristiano of last year. Serious hipster opinions here.

Cristiano was a level ahead of Ribery. If the latter wins it, its quite obvious due to FIFA's political lapdog decisions that aren't influenced by who was actually the superior player.

Cannot even believe this is a comparison.
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Post by FennecFox7 Thu Oct 31, 2013 6:50 pm

arq the sad thing is they think ribery is this god of passing and dribbling. Laughing
and ronaldo can only "score goals", despite racking up assists every season and having several key passes every game Rolling Eyes

To beat ronaldo and messi you have to do some serious shit to even be considered. and if ribery was the teams focal point and he's not even on that list then just Laughing
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Post by Arquitecto Thu Oct 31, 2013 6:56 pm

Ribery quite simply is an outstanding player. Yet Cristiano plays his game left right and centre while Ribery merely drifts in to use his right foot. While his passes, crosses and creativity surpasses Ronaldo, the level of his game simply did not surpass what Cristiano emulated for Real Madrid. Ribery was a player who was a very vital component for Bayern yet arguably wasn't even their best player under Heynckes 2nd year.

I won't even bother explaining and analysing the difference in an objective manner, considering there was a clear difference between the both. Just clutching at straws to state Ribery's apparent superiority.
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Post by sportsczy Thu Oct 31, 2013 6:58 pm

Ribery is a better player than CR7... not individually, but in terms of team footy player.  Sorry, but that's the truth.  Unless everything is geared towards him and critical parts of the rest of the team are sacrificed, CR7 can't (or won't) exist.  Ribery, on the other hand, does whatever needs to get done for the team to win.  He reinvented himself based on what the manager wanted several times at Bayern. Not only that, he made himself into a complete player... no weakness at all. None.

Only two players worth mentioning as best players last year are Messi and Ribery to me... and Ribery won more trophies, which is why he should win.  If the trophy count wasn't that one-sided and the team head-to-head too, it would be Messi.
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Post by Gil Thu Oct 31, 2013 7:13 pm

It's almost as if United 06/07 didn't exist. Ronaldo is perfectly capable of being a team player and creator which was emphasized by his 23 goals and 21 assists that season (Ronaldo at 23 was better than Ribery ever was Laughing ).

He simply just evolved into one of the best goalscorers of all time, rather than being a hipster douchebag you simply surround the said player with much better talent.

There's no reason a team with as much wealth and prestige as Madrid should have such a flawed midfield and putrid defense.

As for Ribery, he's definitely a Top 5 player but no way is he better than Messi, Ronaldo or even Ibra. He's simply on a far better team than those three. For all his hype he wasn't even the best player on Bayern's CL winning team. Robben, Schweini & Martinez all outplayed him.
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Post by sportsczy Thu Oct 31, 2013 7:22 pm

Another one who doesn't watch Bayern regularly Laughing

Where are the Bayern fans btw? i think they just don't feel like taking in the ignorance...
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Post by RonaldoGreatestEverRM Thu Oct 31, 2013 7:29 pm

There IS NO CRITERIA. Neither are any explanations given.

"+ to his performances" lol.

I don't think Ribery will win the Ballon D'Or, at the end it will be between Messi&Ronaldo, probably Messi.
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Post by Pip Thu Oct 31, 2013 7:33 pm

Giggity5313 wrote:Lol messi and ronaldo are also double marked.. so that part of your point is invalid
Who brought up Messi and Cristiano? "Red Alert" stated that Ribéry is in a team where he is not the focal point and he is not closed down as much. That is simply not true. Ribéry has more influence on-the-ball than Cristiano does.

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Post by Le Samourai Thu Oct 31, 2013 7:38 pm

Negredo has had an outstanding year, never thought I'd see the day where I'd call myself a fan.

Vicente :bow:
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Post by The Franchise Thu Oct 31, 2013 7:50 pm

Gil wrote:It's almost as if United 06/07 didn't exist. Ronaldo is perfectly capable of being a team player and creator which was emphasized by his 23 goals and 21 assists that season (Ronaldo at 23 was better than Ribery ever was Laughing).

He simply just evolved into one of the best goalscorers of all time, rather than being a hipster douchebag you simply surround the said player with much better talent.

There's no reason a team with as much wealth and prestige as Madrid should have such a flawed midfield and putrid defense.

As for Ribery, he's definitely a Top 5 player but no way is he better than Messi, Ronaldo or even Ibra. He's simply on a far better team than those three. For all his hype he wasn't even the best player on Bayern's CL winning team. Robben, Schweini & Martinez all outplayed him.
Why do you pick and choose when assists and stats in general are a good arguement and when they arent?

Cristiano was never a team player, put your assist stats away.
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Post by zigra Thu Oct 31, 2013 7:57 pm

Gil wrote:It's almost as if United 06/07 didn't exist. Ronaldo is perfectly capable of being a team player and creator which was emphasized by his 23 goals and 21 assists that season (Ronaldo at 23 was better than Ribery ever was Laughing).

He simply just evolved into one of the best goalscorers of all time, rather than being a hipster douchebag you simply surround the said player with much better talent.

There's no reason a team with as much wealth and prestige as Madrid should have such a flawed midfield and putrid defense.

As for Ribery, he's definitely a Top 5 player but no way is he better than Messi, Ronaldo or even Ibra. He's simply on a far better team than those three. For all his hype he wasn't even the best player on Bayern's CL winning team. Robben, Schweini & Martinez all outplayed him.
So he's "definitely a Top 5 player" but Messi, Ronaldo, Ibra, Robben, Schweini&Martinez outplayed him?
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Post by harhar11 Thu Oct 31, 2013 9:04 pm

Gil wrote:It's almost as if United 06/07 didn't exist. Ronaldo is perfectly capable of being a team player and creator which was emphasized by his 23 goals and 21 assists that season (Ronaldo at 23 was better than Ribery ever was Laughing).

He simply just evolved into one of the best goalscorers of all time, rather than being a hipster douchebag you simply surround the said player with much better talent.

There's no reason a team with as much wealth and prestige as Madrid should have such a flawed midfield and putrid defense.

As for Ribery, he's definitely a Top 5 player but no way is he better than Messi, Ronaldo or even Ibra. He's simply on a far better team than those three. For all his hype he wasn't even the best player on Bayern's CL winning team. Robben, Schweini & Martinez all outplayed him.
But that C.Ronaldo doesn't exist anymore. He "sacrificed" his all around play to become a better goalscorer..

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Post by Dnmac4 Thu Oct 31, 2013 9:34 pm

I'm so tired of hearing people cry that there is no criteria to the Balon D'or. It's very simple and people want to make the award difficult because they are mad at the outcome.

Very simply the award is for the best player in a calendar year. The last 4 years running that player has been Leo Messi hands down. I don't even really understand what the argument even is.

You wont see a player have the numbers and trophies that Messi does over a 4 year span maybe never again in our lifetimes.

And now we have to participate in some dumb argument that a guy who is probably the third or fourth best player on his own team (Neuer, Lahm) and put up pedestrian statistics (1 freaking goal and 2 assists in the 11 CL games he played in last year and 10 league goals in a wide open league) for someone competing against Messi and Ronaldo is the best player in the world.

I mean really people stop trying to put these arguments together, he plays on a great team and the TEAM deserves every award they get but as an INDIVIDUAL he is not in the same league as Ronaldo and Messi.

I liken this discussion to one I had with my little cousin the other day who asked me if Michael Jordan was so great why did he only win 5 MVP's?

And the answer is simple they got tired of giving to him which looks like what people are doing now with Messi. Was Barkley or Malone better than Jordan, no not a chance, not even close. Did they have better seasons those years, nope. Again they just got tired of giving it to him and when you look back on it now it seems pretty superficial and quite stupid for those two to beat Jordan to the award.

The same as looking back on it now it seems pretty dumb for Cannavaro to have won the Balon D'or when he won it. IT just doesn't fit.
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Post by buddytaller Thu Oct 31, 2013 9:55 pm

Ribery better than Ronaldo:rofl: He's not even the best player at Bayern, I rate Robben and Schweinsteiger ahead of him, he's no where near the league of Ronaldo, he's just the flavour of the month who would fade just as soon as he's risen.
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Post by vanos1 Thu Oct 31, 2013 10:03 pm

Actually coaches and captains vote for amazing moments that they remember. More magic moments=more chance.
Journalists vote for trophies.

All 3 players have same chance this year

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Post by Valkyrja Thu Oct 31, 2013 10:07 pm

harhar11 wrote:
Gil wrote:It's almost as if United 06/07 didn't exist. Ronaldo is perfectly capable of being a team player and creator which was emphasized by his 23 goals and 21 assists that season (Ronaldo at 23 was better than Ribery ever was Laughing).

He simply just evolved into one of the best goalscorers of all time, rather than being a hipster douchebag you simply surround the said player with much better talent.

There's no reason a team with as much wealth and prestige as Madrid should have such a flawed midfield and putrid defense.

As for Ribery, he's definitely a Top 5 player but no way is he better than Messi, Ronaldo or even Ibra. He's simply on a far better team than those three. For all his hype he wasn't even the best player on Bayern's CL winning team. Robben, Schweini & Martinez all outplayed him.
But that C.Ronaldo doesn't exist anymore. He "sacrificed" his all around play to become a better goalscorer..
Please. He is a complete player now, even Ferguson said. He just lost some of his dribbling skills(he's still a good dribbler), but he added much more. He is by far the most dangerous player in the box, being able to finish from any position, with both legs, and with the head. His link-up play is very good, his decision making is much better than it was at Utd, his passing and vision improved, he's much more of a team player, his long shots are better. Moreover his off-the-ball movement is by far the best in football.
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Post by DuringTheWar Thu Oct 31, 2013 10:22 pm

Dnmac4 wrote:I'm so tired of hearing people cry that there is no criteria to the Balon D'or.  It's very simple and people want to make the award difficult because they are mad at the outcome.

Very simply the award is for the best player in a calendar year.  The last 4 years running that player has been Leo Messi hands down.  I don't even really understand what the argument even is.  

You wont see a player have the numbers and trophies that Messi does over a 4 year span maybe never again in our lifetimes.

And now we have to participate in some dumb argument that a guy who is probably the third or fourth best player on his own team (Neuer, Lahm) and put up pedestrian statistics (1 freaking goal and 2 assists in the 11 CL games he played in last year and 10 league goals in a wide open league) for someone competing against Messi and Ronaldo is the best player in the world.

I mean really people stop trying to put these arguments together, he plays on a great team and the TEAM deserves every award they get but as an INDIVIDUAL he is not in the same league as Ronaldo and Messi.

I liken this discussion to one I had with my little cousin the other day who asked me if Michael Jordan was so great why did he only win 5 MVP's?  

And the answer is simple they got tired of giving to him which looks like what people are doing now with Messi.  Was Barkley or Malone better than Jordan, no not a chance, not even close.  Did they have better seasons those years, nope.  Again they just got tired of giving it to him and when you look back on it now it seems pretty superficial and quite stupid for those two to beat Jordan to the award.

The same as looking back on it now it seems pretty dumb for Cannavaro to have won the Balon D'or when he won it.  IT just doesn't fit.
That basically means it automatically goes to the most talented player as long as he stayed fit and in form for most of the year. Would be completely pointless. Id rather have an award that went to the player who achieved the most greatness that year. And that means winning something big or doing something else of equal greatness
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Post by Pip Thu Oct 31, 2013 10:53 pm

Valkyrja wrote:Please. He is a complete player now, even Ferguson said. He just lost some of his dribbling skills(he's still a good dribbler), but he added much more. He is by far the most dangerous player in the box, being able to finish from any position, with both legs, and with the head. His link-up play is very good, his decision making is much better than it was at Utd, his passing and vision improved, he's much more of a team player, his long shots are better. Moreover his off-the-ball movement is by far the best in football.
rofl

Cristiano was a more complete player at Manchester United than he is right now. Not only did he score goals in abundance, he was a phenomenal winger and a wide forward. He could beat multiple defenders off the dribble, was extremely dangerous on-the-ball and off-the-ball, was equally adept terrorizing the fullback or drifting inside. Nowadays he plays almost solely through the middle, is not as creative and dangerous than he used to be.

The only thing he has improved now is his goal-scoring and he has limited his overall ability to maximize his goal-scoring prowess. He's not more of a team player now, he never was one in the first place. His long shots are not better. His passing has not improved. He's simply become more predatory in front of goal.

That post makes it seem like you've actually never seen him play at Manchester United. Just because he scores 60 goals now doesn't make him a complete player. He still has the same physical abilities like speed and jumping, his dribbling has reduced greatly, his explosiveness has reduced, and his on-ball influence has reduced. All for more goals.

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