Liverpool vs. Crystal Palace

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Post by DeletedUser#1 Fri Oct 04, 2013 3:33 pm

Suspension: Lucas
Injury: Coutinho, Johnson, Allen


-------------------Mig--------------------
--------Toure-----Agger---Sakho-------
-Moses---------------------------Enrique
----------Gerrard--Henderson-----------
----------------Alberto-------------------
----------Sturridge----Suarez-----------

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Post by Art Morte Fri Oct 04, 2013 4:17 pm

There won't be an easier game to keep a clean sheet.

Migno
Wisdom - Skrtel - Toure - Enrique
Sterling - Henderson - Gerrard - Moses
Sturridge - Suarez
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Post by Helmer Fri Oct 04, 2013 4:25 pm

I like Sepi's line up...and pls no sterling as RWB, we were even more dominated from the right hand side when sterling came on in the last game.

I am not sure if alberto will start, although I would like him to start. Actually Moses didnt do bad there in the hole attacking wise but the problem is he provides absolutely nothing to midfield. So I like the idea in Sepi's line up.

Time to see how Hendo with Gerrard works out. In fact in long term i would like to see Allen, Hendo and Gerrard together in midfield.

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Post by ExtremistEnigma Fri Oct 04, 2013 5:02 pm

Should be a rout.

Mignolet
Toure/Kelly - Sakho - Skrtel - Enrique
Gerrard - Henderson - Alberto
Moses - Sturridge - Suarez
Would like Henderson to be played deeper as a cover for the back four in place of Lucas. He can mostly certainly be effective there since he has the defensive abilities.

Cissokho is still injured too, btw.
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Post by McAgger Fri Oct 04, 2013 7:09 pm

Doesn't really matter to me as long as we win. A good performance would be nice but 3 points is all I care about at the end of the day.

Hoping we continue with the 3 CB formation. Agger to slot in ahead of Skrtel so we can play a bit of a higher line. Hendo to move to the center and hoping for Sterling as the RWB.

Mignolet
Toure - Agger - Sakho
Sterling - Gerrard - Hendo - Enrique
Moses
Suarez -- Sturridge
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Post by Red Alert Sat Oct 05, 2013 8:10 am

Moses can't play as a number 10 regardless of what he says.

Luis Alberto has to play here. We didn't pay whatever we paid for him to sit on the bench ffs. He's exactly the type of player we've lacked all season. What's worse is that we could of bought Eriksen but seemed Alberto and Coutinho (should be playing on the left hand side....) was enough.

EDIT: Lucas Leiva isn't playing. I think every fan on here is excited he's sitting one out... I'm just glad we're not versing anyone special. Crystal Palace will sit back. I'd like to see which number 10 is going to link the midfield to attack (the MAIN problem all season) and provide service to our players in the final third. We're going to need Luis Suarez or Sturridge to be the X-factor once more...
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Post by Art Morte Sat Oct 05, 2013 2:31 pm

Mignolet, Toure, Skrtel, Sakho, Sterling, Henderson, Moses, Gerrard, Jose Enrique, Sturridge, Suarez.

Subs: Brad Jones, Agger, Alberto, Aspas, Tiago Ilori, Ibe, Wisdom.

I'm liking that line-up. The only question is will it be a 4-4 or a 3-5 formation or a bit of both.


Also, Everton losing their first game of the season is a fitting preamble to this match.
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Post by McAgger Sat Oct 05, 2013 3:50 pm

Good times. Great first half. It is Crystal Palace so we can't really take the performance as anything special even if we destroy them. But it's still very fun to have days like these. I expect 5-0.

Also our defense started pretty average as we allowed Palace way too much space to attack us in the first 25mins or so but playing better now.

SAS Proud
And Stevie scoring his 99 PL goal Proud
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Post by Helmer Sat Oct 05, 2013 4:02 pm

till now 65% possession, lets see how the second half goes now

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Post by McAgger Sat Oct 05, 2013 5:02 pm

Man disappointing second half AGAIN. What else is new??

3 points is the most important thing. Sturridge leading the scoring charts comfortably. Suarez already caught up with RVP, Rooney, and Aguero.

Top of the league :bow:
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Post by Art Morte Sat Oct 05, 2013 5:11 pm

A comfy win in the end.

Henderson was good in the center, maybe it was the Palace factor but at least in the 1st half Gerrard was venturing further forward as well.

Sturridge and Suarez great up front. Moses was a bit meh and missed that one sitter. Sterling isn't a wing-back and hopefully won't play as such in the future, that's just calling for trouble against better opposition.

Anyway, the match went as it should have and it's good to continue from here.
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Post by Nishankly Sat Oct 05, 2013 5:14 pm

Im not too worried with this performance. Hendo did well. Sterling was again disappointing. Everything else was good.

Cissokho, Allen and Gleninho. All will be available by Newcastle.
Cou not far away too. Keep the faith.
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Post by McAgger Sat Oct 05, 2013 5:19 pm

Yeah the international break has come at a good time.

NUFC will be a bit of a tougher match. Johnson as RWB will solve many a problem there.
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Post by Arquitecto Sat Oct 05, 2013 6:15 pm

Not really anything to gather out of this game given who played what are the worst side in the Premiership. Typical Holloway side who threaten in attack yet are tactically and defensively non-existent.

Kudos to Rodger's in his recent idea for a 3-man, as this particular 3-5-2 was much more distinct than the previous 3-5-2/4-4-1-1 in defence amalgamation.

Backline was solid as Sakho & Toure in particular stood out. Sakho's position has been magnificent since his arrival while Toure has been quite a revelation. Since the latter's arrival I marvelled at his technique from the back, yet I have noticed that it is his composure that resonates to our whole backline the most.

Henderson was disciplined in defence yet too often passed into tight spaces, was wayward and did not provide much attacking presence. Yet his almost sweeper role aligned ourselves in defence far better than Lucas (who was suspended) has lately, given how disappointing the Brazilian has been, this season.

Enrique was brilliant. Gerrard quite disciplined himself and providing a wonderful outlet in attack, with Hendo releasing him based on positional. Sterling should never be a right back. Looked lost in defence and (unsurprisingly) a headless chicken in attack, given he can't cut into his left.

Sturridge finally is gaining his fitness back and showed wonderful maturity in his overall play. His goal was magnificent yet like Suarez' goal, it truly was a piece of some atrocious defence.

As usual in the 2nd half we just turned off, inviting pressure from Holloway's side to which made it an absolute bore.

Positives are how Suarez and Sturridge seem to click, both complimenting each others strengths.

Important that we sealed off the result and further aligned ourselves with what is an unorthodox and risky formation for Premiership football. Despite complacency I enjoyed the strives of creativity and desire to play within the box rather than sitting back.

Lets hope Arsenal drop points vs West Brom tomorrow, in order for us to retain our current top spot.
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Post by McAgger Sun Oct 06, 2013 1:12 am

Goals
Liverpool vs. Crystal Palace 22

Liverpool vs. Crystal Palace 12730087054_5ec1aecf02_o

Liverpool vs. Crystal Palace 24


Last edited by McAgger on Sun Feb 23, 2014 10:09 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Post by Red Alert Sun Oct 06, 2013 9:38 am

We got the three points, and played well in the first half. But the same problems continuing from all our other games to be honest.

I've been saying it all year. You can play whoever you want there, a two man midfield doesn't work in the PL. EVERY team bar United in the PL plays with 3. We're basically playing like SAFs United right now. It's an open free flowing game for both sides but we're being more clinical and getting the 3 points because our forwards Sturridge (RVP) and Suarez (Rooney) are carrying us rather than we deserve to win because we were more dominant. lol

Henderson, Lucas, Gundogan, Xavi, Sweiny, whoever you want to mention won't fix this. We need to go back to a three man midfield. Anyway. Next point. Moses is not a number 10. Aspas is not a number 10. Coutinho's influence was nullified in the number 10 role this season before his injury; he's not ready to play in the middle.

We weren't the best in the second half. Not too show why. Maybe we played a bit flat because we had a 3 goal cushion, I don't know. But our second halves have been horrid all season. It needs addressing.

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Post by El Jefe Sun Oct 06, 2013 1:23 pm

A 2 man midfield with Coutinho in front could easily work if you have the right players. Henderson did really well, along with Sakho he was probably our best player. Does just as much as Lucas defensively, if not more, brings a lot more energy and mobility and is better going forward. I think we should continue with Gerrard and Henderson in the middle, Lucas shouldn't walk straight back into a team when he's been playing badly for nearly a year. Henderson got an opportunity and did very well, deserves to keep his place.
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Post by Art Morte Sun Oct 06, 2013 4:09 pm

Yeah, on players' current form Henderson should be the first midfielder on the team sheet.

If we continue to play with a number 10 (first Coutinho, now Moses, with two strikers Daniel & Luis), I think it comes down to having either a three-man midfield with no width or a two-man midfield with width. I think our players are better suited for the latter, since we've got a number of good wide options and are more limited in CMs.

So:

----- X -----
X - X - X - X
- X - X - X -
----- X -----
-- X --- X --

or

----- X -----
- X - X - X -
X - X - X - X
----- X -----
-- X --- X --

In some ways having two hot strikers in the team who both are pretty much undroppable is always going to eat into our midfield. In fact, it's a question worth asking should both Sturridge and Suarez start in some of our toughest away games? We are playing Arsenal in London on 2nd November; does our midfield stand a chance if we have two strikers up front?
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Post by donttreadonred Sun Oct 06, 2013 4:14 pm

Points of Interest:

1) The average positions for the starters are rather interesting. Check out Henderson’s position. He’s well behind the other midfielders. Watching his performance, his engine was readily apparent. I mean, I knew he ran when he was playing wide, but he had legs to spare in the midfield area. It has to be said that his harrying and energy carried Gerrard through parts of the match. (Unfortunately, he couldn’t do Gerrard’s marking for him.) I really want to see him continue at CM against Newcastle, especially if Glenjo is back from injury.  
Liverpool vs. Crystal Palace BV14Vv5CcAAOGx3

2) I don’t think Rodgers (or any of his coaching staff) are any good at set-piece defending. It  was an obvious issue at the beginning of his tenure, and we continue to look scared and confused over a year on. Something needs to be done about the marking, attention spans, etc.

3) Raheem Sterling isn’t a wingback. He didn’t perform badly, but he looked far from convincing to me. I just don’t think it’s a good fit. He’s a winger who likes to cut inside (regardless of which side he’s playing on) and dribble at goal. That isn’t exactly what you want from your wingbacks. Moreover, his defensive play was shaky at best. We were never truly cut open down that side, but I would attribute that more to Crystal Palace than Raheem’s defensive fortitude. I really don’t mean to be harsh on the lad, but I just don’t think he’s a good fit for that role. Then again, if he can’t play there, and Johnson isn’t fit, my plan to keep Hendo in the middle simply won’t work. *Sigh*… decisions.

4) Moses looked far more comfortable in that CAM role. He did well to match up against Jedinak, who I rate as a decent DM when he’s just asked to break up play. Moses obviously isn’t close to dislodging Coutinho when the Brazilian is fit, but he has really improved from his first run-out in the position.

5) Skrtel has improved and looks to be gaining confidence, but I’d still drop him for Agger in a heartbeat. It was obvious that Skrtel had worked on his tendency to abandon the forward pass and look for Mignolet. Then again, he was being pressed by Marouane Chamakh… I don’t want to say Chamakh is lazy, but if the house were on fire, you might need encouragement to get up and call the fire department. (Seriously… He couldn’t be arsed to stay on his feet and score against Southampton. He decided to dive instead of chase the ball and slot it into the net. It was one of the more unnecessary dives I’ve seen in a while.) In any case, Agger offers better ball-handling and distribution from the central CB position, and with Sakho and Kolo behind him, he would be free to bring the ball out as Skrtel was allowed to do at times in the last few matches. In my opinion, our overall play would drastically improve against higher-pressing sides. Skrtel is very good at siege defense, but can be very poor in isolated possession.  Agger is an obvious choice for a team looking to pass the ball out from the back.

6) SAS... wow. Just wow.
Suarez vs. Crystal Palace:
Sturridge vs. Crystal Palace:
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Post by donttreadonred Sun Oct 06, 2013 4:28 pm

Art Morte wrote:Yeah, on players' current form Henderson should be the first midfielder on the team sheet.

If we continue to play with a number 10 (first Coutinho, now Moses, with two strikers Daniel & Luis), I think it comes down to having either a three-man midfield with no width or a two-man midfield with width. I think our players are better suited for the latter, since we've got a number of good wide options and are more limited in CMs.

So:

----- X -----
X - X - X - X
- X - X - X -
----- X -----
-- X --- X --

or

----- X -----
- X - X - X -
X - X - X - X
----- X -----
-- X --- X --

In some ways having two hot strikers in the team who both are pretty much undroppable is always going to eat into our midfield. In fact, it's a question worth asking should both Sturridge and Suarez start in some of our toughest away games? We are playing Arsenal in London on 2nd November; does our midfield stand a chance if we have two strikers up front?
I think a deciding factor in this decision (between the 4 at the back or the 3) is Lucas's form more than the "width issue". The width will be there if we have our first-choice (or even second-choice) fullbacks. Johnson, Enrique, Cissokho, and even Kelly to an extent all like to get forward. THis makes the position functionally the same in both setups. The only real difference is that in once Lucas drops back to sit between two CBs. In the other, it's 3 out-and-out CBs.

Right now Lucas is chasing far too much for my liking, and he is tiring early as a result. This makes him ineffective later in matches, exposing Gerrards similar endurance issues and leaving the 2 CBs exposed. Moreover, he doesn't seem to have the pace to recover from missed challenges anymore, even early in the contest. If beaten, he usually resorts to fouling, which has led to a very quick suspension for accumulation of yellow cards.

Henderson does not have those issues. Obviously, he's not a true DM, but you can make the case that two positionally-sound CMs can function well enough in a 3-5-2, as they have 3 CBs behind them, rather than 2. Henderson is earning his place right now as one of the first names on the team sheet, and I think he earned at least another shot at CM against Newcastle after the International break. The only question is whether Rodgers saw enough positive in Sterling to play him at wing-back, and if not, whether Johnson/Kelly is fit enough to start there.
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Post by DeletedUser#1 Sun Oct 06, 2013 7:12 pm

Sturridge and Suarez are undoubtedly are 2 most important and best players.

Other parts of the team should be arranged to get the best of them, not the other way around. They score goals ,and goals win games. hopefully we'll adress the CM issue in January.

Really hope Glen is back after in'tl national break. Imagine the buzz and mood if we go to Emirates having earned 6 points from Newcastle and WBA

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Post by El Jefe Sun Oct 06, 2013 7:25 pm

This is sort of turning into the tactics thread but if we switched back to a back 4 I'd like to see us go with Allen, Gerrard and Henderson behind Coutinho.

Either with Gerrard as a regista with Henderson and Allen as the pressers/engines behind Coutinho. Or with Allen as a controller and Gerrard RCM, dropping out the right where his crossing can be very effective and Henderson (LCM) providing drive from deep in the middle and towards the left.

Personally I'd look at sticking with this 3 CB formation and bringing in a top class DM in January. Go DM -Gerrard for the rest of the season and then look at reducing his workload next year and bringing in Henderson or Allen on when he needs resting.

Also about marking, not sure whether whoever said it meant in general play or from the free kick that led to the goal, but Gayle was initially Enrique's man. Gerrard never marks men, always covers the front post and Enrique takes whoever stands near Mignolet. He's let Hernandez and now Gayle go already this year, cost us 2 goals.
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Post by donttreadonred Sun Oct 06, 2013 8:50 pm

El Jefe wrote:This is sort of turning into the tactics thread but if we switched back to a back 4 I'd like to see us go with Allen, Gerrard and Henderson behind Coutinho.

Either with Gerrard as a regista with Henderson and Allen as the pressers/engines behind Coutinho. Or with Allen as a controller and Gerrard RCM, dropping out the right where his crossing can be very effective and Henderson (LCM) providing drive from deep in the middle and towards the left.

Personally I'd look at sticking with this 3 CB formation and bringing in a top class DM in January. Go DM -Gerrard for the rest of the season and then look at reducing his workload next year and bringing in Henderson or Allen on when he needs resting.

Also about marking, not sure whether whoever said it meant in general play or from the free kick that led to the goal, but Gayle was initially Enrique's man. Gerrard never marks men, always covers the front post and Enrique takes whoever stands near Mignolet. He's let Hernandez and now Gayle go already this year, cost us 2 goals.
At the risk of switching this to a second tactics thread...

I believe what you're suggestion is something along the lines of this:
----- X -----
-- X --- X --
X --- X --- X
-- X --- X --
----- X -----
-- X --- X --


If you want to see Gerrard play a regista role, I wouldn't switch to a back four. I would go with Juventus's take on the 3-5-2.

Gerrard simply can't maintain the intensity to perform the regista role with only two CBs behind him (assuming the two fullbacks would continue to bomb forward). We've seen the drop off in his play around the 60 minute mark every match this season. While you could make the argument that the regista role should limit his exertion, I'm still not comfortable with him as the only shield in front of 2 split CBs.

Now, if you put Kolo (RCB), Agger (CB), and Skaho (LCB) behind him... Well, that's a completely different story. All of a sudden, you look much more solid at the back. you're not really giving up any width (if anything, you're putting your width in a better position to contribute high up the pitch); and you maintain the numbers in midfield. The only issue would be the inclusion of Coutinho (once fit) and that gap between midfield and attack. However, I have faith that SAS are mobile and intelligent enough to trade off dropping into space to pick up the ball. In addition, Coutinho could theoretically play more of an "Iniesta" attacking midfield role opposite one of Hendo/Allen.
----- X -----
- X - X - X -
----- X -----
X - X - X - X
------------
-- X --- X --

There are certainly options in how we set up going forward. The big question is how long Rodgers will continue with the 3 CB experiment. We've already heard that it's not his preferred set-up, but it does seem to let us get our best players in the best areas. With a GK that is somewhat shy in distribution, having three ball-playing CBs helps to relieve pressure. Moreover, the current 3-5-2 lets us get our best attacking trio in their best positions. To be honest, I have a hard time seeing us moving away from it anytime soon. (Watch. After I've said that, we'll try something different next match-day.)
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Post by Helmer Sun Oct 06, 2013 10:47 pm

As I said in the other thread, I would like to see a midfield of Allen, Hendo and Gerrard. With that said, I would like to see a formation such as 4-3-1-2

----- X -----
X--X --- X --X
------A-----
--H ----- G --
------C -----
-- X --- X --
So H-Hendo will have option to make runs a well as help A-Allen defensively, G-Gerrard will be kind of playmaker, his job can be to find one of C-coutinho and the front men. I think Hendo and Allen can do the dirty work, it is just that we will need Allen in his form which he had in the start of the last season. I think we should play with this formation specially for away games OR against teams like Arsenal or Spurs.

At home we can continue to use 3CB with Sakho, Agger and Toure. But I think when BR has an idea of a counter game for some opponents, we should start with Skrtel. Agger is good on lot of things but when consistently under much pressure specially when we are sitting dip, he might not do great; so better to start with Skrtel.

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Post by McAgger Sun Oct 06, 2013 11:10 pm

I'm not a proponent of anything that makes us lack width. Having width is essential in PL and even in Europe. 3-4-1-2 (the current system) provides great balance to the wings and defense but the 4-3-1-2 is essentially a glorified 4-4-2 diamond which would require the CMs or one of the forwards to provide most of the attacking width and it weakens the defense.

Essentially having Allen play that DM role in a Rodgers system would require him to drop between the two CBs (if we play with only 2) and collect the ball and we saw last season that he's really not good at that. Having 3 at the back (especially someone like Agger in the middle of the 3) takes away the need for a out and out DM. The center CB can play either a la Skrtel and act as a sweeper deeper than the other two or to step up and dribble the ball out of the defense like Agger can do.

What this current system has done is that it has made Lucas' role less significant in the team. Last season losing Lucas would've destroyed our season but now the two pivot midfielders don't really need to be out and out DMs or have great defensive qualities. What it does require however is great mobility, which is why Hendo is having a great time there and Stevie and Lucas are looking less impressive.

Now, also, this current system requires the CMs to provide more of an attacking influence to the team since essentially we've taken a player from the top and added an extra CB. So the two CM's need to be able to score some goals, which is again detrimental to Lucas' role. We need a box to box mobile hard working CM that can score goals and provide a greater attacking influence in January. I vote Matic, Pjanic or Rakitic but all 3 will be pretty hard to get.
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