Ribery the hard worker

Khaled wrote:

zigra wrote:

harhar11 wrote:And Zigra, when you said that CR7 was better than Messi last season because of his stat, you made a mistake that Harmonica always does and that is that stats aint all that matters. The most important thing is and always has been performances.

It wasn't really serious. I just remember the time when Real Madrid were champions and people said Messi deserves to win wpoty because of his incredible stats blabla and right now when Ronaldo has the better stats and people say Messi deserves because of this or that. I think that's funny.

I actually think stats do tell a lot but goals and assists are only two variables and there are a lot more. As I said for all the goals they scored I'd give the award to Ribery. Not that I really care who wins wpoty.

It was never just about stats, infact individual performance is not just about goals!

Anyway, Messi always had better Stats than Cristiano in the last 4 seasons. I think you're talking about season 2010/11 when Cristiano won the pichichi award!

In that season, Messi was the UCL top scorer, scored more goals for country and ended the season 2010/11 with 57 official goals vs 56 to Cristiano. Messi added 30 assists, Cristiano 16. Overall individual performance and effectiveness also Messi was ahead, especially in the head to head (clasicos). Remember the Manita and Messi's brilliant assists to Villa or the solo goal at the bernabeu etc... In addition to that Messi with Barcelona won the DOUBLE (Liga+UCL).
you can't 2011 to 2012...

2011:
Messi
- Team: UCL, Liga.
- Individual: UCL top scorer.
- Stats: 59 goals, 36 assists.

Cristiano
- Team: Copa.
- Individual: pichichi.
- Stats: 60 goals, 15 assists.


2012:
Messi
- Team: Copa.
- Individual: UCL top scorer, Pichichi.
- Stats: 91 goals, 22 assists.

Cristiano
- Team: Liga.
- Individual: -
- Stats: 69 goals, 13 assists.

Nah you got me wrong buddy.
I was talking about 2013 - the current year which obviously isn't finished yet. So far in 2013 C Ronaldos stats (goals and assists combined) are better than Messis.
When Real Madrid won the championship and Barcelona won nothing many people (I don't say you did) said Messi should still be wpoty because of his incredible stats (that was last year I think when he broke another individual record). As I said I wasn't really serious, it was just a potshot at those people.

Khaled wrote:

zigra wrote:Khaled wtf do you actually want? I wrote what I like about Ribery and I never said Messi is a poacher. Just go.
Second you clearly have no idea of how to use stats. You really think the conversion rate tells you who's the better finisher? That's embarrassing if you were serious. I still hope it was a joke.

How do you compare between 2 players finishing

Hard to say. In theory stats would be the best way to do it but what we have isn't good enough. You can't compare a shot from 30 metres to a shot from 20 or even 10 metres. In fact Messi could still well be a better finisher than Ronaldo. But the stats don't tell us.

sportsczy wrote:Yeah... La Liga stat padding is a great comparison to Bundi  

Anyhow, thank god football is a team sport.  From what i read here, you'd think we were talking about golf or tennis.

LOL, you do comprehend this thread is about an individual award, correct??????

That's why "what you read here" is about individuals.

zigra wrote:

harhar11 wrote:And Zigra, when you said that CR7 was better than Messi  last season because of his stat, you made a mistake that Harmonica always does and that is that stats aint all that matters. The most important thing is and always has been performances.

It wasn't really serious. I just remember the time when Real Madrid were champions and people said Messi deserves to win wpoty because of his incredible stats blabla and right now when Ronaldo has the better stats and people say Messi deserves because of this or that. I think that's funny.

I actually think stats do tell a lot but goals and assists are only two variables and there are a lot more. As I said for all the goals they scored I'd give the award to Ribery. Not that I really care who wins wpoty.

]Atleast I have never said that.Infact I have criticized Harmonica alot of times because he works like that, but not me. I always talk about Messi's performances and very rarely mention his stats. And Messi's performances for Barca when Real Madrid won the league was superior to C.Ronaldo's, so that's why I said that Messi was the deservingly winner of that years award.

Oh and it's true that C.Ronaldo has scored more than Messi, but that's only because he has played more games than him.

Dnmac4 wrote:

sportsczy wrote:Yeah... La Liga stat padding is a great comparison to Bundi  

Anyhow, thank god football is a team sport.  From what i read here, you'd think we were talking about golf or tennis.

LOL, you do comprehend this thread is about an individual award, correct??????

That's why "what you read here" is about individuals.

Nevermind that it's Bundesliga where they score more goals. I've never seen anybody fail so much with their trolling than Sportski.

Its funny how some Ronaldo fans laugh at stats when the stats is the only thing Ronaldo can be compared to Messi.

You want to talk about performances without stats? Damn then Ronaldo will not be top 10 player in world. You better stick with stats

I hate the fact that People are bringing down ribéry just because they want to show that Messi or Cr are superiors/better etc ...

imo, this year for me it's Messi - Ribéry - Cr7 . This year that should be the ballon d'or ranking. But it ribéry was to win it I wouldn't mind . He has everything you want from a player , maybe scoring a little bit more and that's all .

People vote messi because when they watch one of his match they see him everywhere, in every attack, in every build up play. Commentators say "Woahh Messi" more than "Woahh Ronaldo". Messi does amazing moments twice more than Ronaldo.He makes Ray Hudson scream like crazy girl. Watchers and voters also get imressed like commentators when they see amazing moments. Ronaldo doesnt do these things.or does very little. Then his fans blame voters for voting Messi

Ray Hudson and Messi

Khaled wrote:

Yohan Modric wrote:To overall sum this thread up, Messi and Ronaldo are better than Ribery individually. Working hard/tracking back shouldn't make a difference when determining who's better. Ribery was a team player last year. Martinez, Schweinsteiger etc were just as important.

Agree.

But, I think Ribery has a better chance than Cristiano to win it this season. Considering club success and the best player in europe award (journalists gave Critsiano just 3 votes)... In the end, Messi will win the ballon d'or, it will be close like 2010...

You REALLY, REALLY hate ronaldo, don't you

sweet jesus... ribery wasn't even close to ronaldo or messi

And this team play bullshit.. come on. messi is the best team player on the fxing planet for god sake. Ronaldo is a complete goalscorer in every way possible. ribery can cross the ball better then those two i guess lmao. thats about it

The truth is this individuality thing has no place in football. If we are talking about effectiveness then Messi is the winner hands down and is also the most exciting to watch.

jibers wrote:The truth is this individuality thing has no place in football. If we are talking about effectiveness then Messi is the winner hands down and is also the most exciting to watch.

says you. Not even in my top 3.

Giggity5313 wrote:

Khaled wrote:

Yohan Modric wrote:To overall sum this thread up, Messi and Ronaldo are better than Ribery individually. Working hard/tracking back shouldn't make a difference when determining who's better. Ribery was a team player last year. Martinez, Schweinsteiger etc were just as important.

Agree.

But, I think Ribery has a better chance than Cristiano to win it this season. Considering club success and the best player in europe award (journalists gave Critsiano just 3 votes)... In the end, Messi will win the ballon d'or, it will be close like 2010...

You REALLY, REALLY hate ronaldo, don't you

sweet jesus... ribery wasn't even close to ronaldo or messi

And this team play bullshit.. come on. messi is the best team player on the fxing planet for god sake. Ronaldo is a complete goalscorer in every way possible. ribery can cross the ball better then those two i guess lmao. thats about it

I didn't say Ribery is better than Cristiano. Althought, I think its close between them...
I meant that most of the Journalists will vote for Ribery like they did in the "best player in europe award" (Cristiano only got 2 or 3 votes). This is why Ribery has a better chance than Cristiano.

I also think that some players/coaches will put Neymar in their Top 3 after his great performance in the Confederations Cup, Neymar might end up 5th.

zigra wrote:

Khaled wrote:

zigra wrote:It wasn't really serious. I just remember the time when Real Madrid were champions and people said Messi deserves to win wpoty because of his incredible stats blabla and right now when Ronaldo has the better stats and people say Messi deserves because of this or that. I think that's funny.

I actually think stats do tell a lot but goals and assists are only two variables and there are a lot more. As I said for all the goals they scored I'd give the award to Ribery. Not that I really care who wins wpoty.

It was never just about stats, infact individual performance is not just about goals!

Anyway, Messi always had better Stats than Cristiano in the last 4 seasons. I think you're talking about season 2010/11 when Cristiano won the pichichi award!

In that season, Messi was the UCL top scorer, scored more goals for country and ended the season 2010/11 with 57 official goals vs 56 to Cristiano. Messi added 30 assists, Cristiano 16. Overall individual performance and effectiveness also Messi was ahead, especially in the head to head (clasicos). Remember the Manita and Messi's brilliant assists to Villa or the solo goal at the bernabeu etc... In addition to that Messi with Barcelona won the DOUBLE (Liga+UCL).
you can't 2011 to 2012...

2011:
Messi
- Team: UCL, Liga.
- Individual: UCL top scorer.
- Stats: 59 goals, 36 assists.

Cristiano
- Team: Copa.
- Individual: pichichi.
- Stats: 60 goals, 15 assists.


2012:
Messi
- Team: Copa.
- Individual: UCL top scorer, Pichichi.
- Stats: 91 goals, 22 assists.

Cristiano
- Team: Liga.
- Individual: -
- Stats: 69 goals, 13 assists.

Nah you got me wrong buddy.
I was talking about 2013 - the current year which obviously isn't finished yet. So far in 2013 C Ronaldos stats (goals and assists combined) are better than Messis.
When Real Madrid won the championship and Barcelona won nothing many people (I don't say you did) said Messi should still be wpoty because of his incredible stats (that was last year I think when he broke another individual record). As I said I wasn't really serious, it was just a potshot at those people.

Khaled wrote:

zigra wrote:Khaled wtf do you actually want? I wrote what I like about Ribery and I never said Messi is a poacher. Just go.
Second you clearly have no idea of how to use stats. You really think the conversion rate tells you who's the better finisher? That's embarrassing if you were serious. I still hope it was a joke.

How do you compare between 2 players finishing

Hard to say. In theory stats would be the best way to do it but what we have isn't good enough. You can't compare a shot from 30 metres to a shot from 20 or even 10 metres. In fact Messi could still well be a better finisher than Ronaldo. But the stats don't tell us.

Even in 2013, its close although Cristiano played 5 more games and much more minutes...

2013 Stats (club+country):
- Cristiano 50 goals, 11 assists 45 official games (3629 minutes) = 1.5 goal+assist per 90 minutes played.
- Messi 42 goals, 15 assists, 40 official games (3020 minutes) = 1.7 goal+assist per 90 minutes played.
[Messi completed just 26 of the 40 games in 2013].


--------------------------
Although Cristiano Stats in 2012 were GREAT: 69 official games for club and country, 69 goals, 13 assists.

Messi scored 91 goals and provided 22 assists in 2012 in the same number of games as Cristiano (69).

That's 22 goals and 9 assists more than Cristiano in the same number of games.
Word Record, UCL top scorer, pichichi etc... Overall individual performance Messi was clearly better...
----------------------


Yet again, Stats is just part of the whole story.
Cristiano is a great goal scorer, but that's the only thing that he can compete with against Messi. In fact, this is the only reason people compare him to Messi who's a more complete player.

Messi is even a better goal scorer than Cristiano, better finisher, way better dribbler and playmaker (he has it all).

You must be good with numbers

Khaled wrote:

Giggity5313 wrote:

Khaled wrote:Agree.

But, I think Ribery has a better chance than Cristiano to win it this season. Considering club success and the best player in europe award (journalists gave Critsiano just 3 votes)... In the end, Messi will win the ballon d'or, it will be close like 2010...

You REALLY, REALLY hate ronaldo, don't you

sweet jesus... ribery wasn't even close to ronaldo or messi

And this team play bullshit.. come on. messi is the best team player on the fxing planet for god sake. Ronaldo is a complete goalscorer in every way possible. ribery can cross the ball better then those two i guess lmao. thats about it

I didn't say Ribery is better than Cristiano. Althought, I think its close between them...
I meant that most of the Journalists will vote for Ribery like they did in the "best player in europe award" (Cristiano only got 2 or 3 votes). This is why Ribery has a better chance than Cristiano.

I also think that some players/coaches will put Neymar in their Top 3 after his great performance in the Confederations Cup, Neymar might end up 5th.

But the problem is it isn't EVEN close. No one stood out for bayern imo. in fact, ribery was made dortmunds bitch in the first half. completely invisible for about 60 mins then pops up with an assist later on

Neymar.. you can make a case for, he's been absolutely fantastic this season. But its too early to tell.