Re: Champions and Europa League Groups Stage Draw 2013/14

by TenMenWonTheLeague Thu Aug 22, 2013 4:55 pm

rwo power wrote:
windkick wrote:
jibers wrote:How are City in pot 3 still? Makes no sense
How did Dortmund reach the final and are still pot 3?
Well, they got kicked out of CL and EL the years before and didn't compete at all even two years earlier. That doesn't do much for a 5 year coefficient then. But frankly, Dortmund don't really mind which Pot they are in. They take on every opponent they get.

City should be pot 4.

by Khaled Thu Aug 22, 2013 5:54 pm

Barcelona
Shakhtar
Dortmund
Anderlecht

by stevieg8 Thu Aug 22, 2013 5:58 pm

rwo power wrote:Here you can see the points the clubs got in the last season:
http://kassiesa.home.xs4all.nl/bert/uefa/data/method4/ccoef2013.html

Bayern earned 33 points, while Chelsea earned 27 points. (They were in the CL groups first, so they took points from that, too).

Very informative, spent a while scrolling through looking at the different leagues. I do think the weighting system could use some tweaking - it overvalues qualifiers, especially when you consider there's no difference between winning a round of 16 game and winning a semifinal (obviously except for the accumulation of points it takes to get there). It seems to reward the teams that did poorer in their leagues by giving them more points opportunities, and especially for lower leagues that can be a big deal - getting to play poorer competition for 6 games before dropping out of the group stages is worth far more than winning your league, getting into pot 4, and having identical group stage results.

This is all just nitpicking at this point, though, seems like an effective way to rank teams based on performance. Make winning the EL an entry into CL and call it a day Thumbs up

by rwo power Thu Aug 22, 2013 6:05 pm

stevieg8 wrote:I do think the weighting system could use some tweaking - it overvalues qualifiers, especially when you consider there's no difference between winning a round of 16 game and winning a semifinal (obviously except for the accumulation of points it takes to get there).

Actually there are the bonus points that are awarded for reaching certain stages of the tournament, so they do give some extra points still.

And the qualifiers only give half the points of the matches in the proper rounds, so they are already worth less points.

by stevieg8 Thu Aug 22, 2013 6:07 pm

I noticed they were already worth less, I just think the difference should be greater. The difference in quality from the qualifiers even just to the group stages is pretty sizable, and I think the points should reflect that. As I said though, it's nitpicking.

by BarrileteCosmico Thu Aug 22, 2013 6:08 pm

When is the draw?

by rwo power Thu Aug 22, 2013 6:09 pm

stevieg8 wrote:I noticed they were already worth less, I just think the difference should be greater. The difference in quality from the qualifiers even just to the group stages is pretty sizable, and I think the points should reflect that. As I said though, it's nitpicking.

On the other hand, the qualifiers usually lose the clubs money as there are often large distances of travel and not really attractive opponents, so the points are IMO a good repayment for that.

by rwo power Thu Aug 22, 2013 6:11 pm

BarrileteCosmico wrote:When is the draw?

29. August 2013 in Monaco.

by B-Mac Thu Aug 22, 2013 6:35 pm

jibers wrote:
AltoZ wrote:The worst teams from Pot 1 are Portugese + ManU,

Arsenal never gets KO'ed in the Group Stage. And they will buy some new players.
The obsession continues

2 posts in this thread, 2 mentions of United

probably sleeps in his United pajamas, hugging his red devil plush toy, dreaming of fergie ffs

by B-Mac Thu Aug 22, 2013 6:38 pm

that moment we get Marseille, Zenit, and Kazakhstan Proud

who GL gonna blame now fergie gone? Laughing

basel plz stay away, we learned our lesson 2 years ago

by rwo power Thu Aug 22, 2013 6:42 pm

B-Mac wrote:basel plz stay away, we learned our lesson 2 years ago

by iftikhar Fri Aug 23, 2013 2:48 pm

I got three questions:

1. How the hell Karaganda came this far! VtI and others who know eastern Europe (and beyond) please enlighten us.

2. How do you rate Sociedad! They have sold their key player, have they bought enough (quantity and quality) players to have a decent run in League and CL!

3. Why do teams like Plazen (BATE, Cluj, Celtic and other 'minnows') never improve. The CL money (€15-20 million) is very substential (can be 2-3 times their budget) but none of these teams rise.

by ExtremistEnigma Fri Aug 23, 2013 2:52 pm

B-Mac wrote:that moment we get Marseille, Zenit, and Kazakhstan

who GL gonna blame now fergie gone?

basel plz stay away, we learned our lesson 2 years ago

Nah.. Ferguson had no influence in Europe. Proud

by TenMenWonTheLeague Fri Aug 23, 2013 3:02 pm

iftikhar wrote:I got three questions:

1. How the hell Karaganda came this far! VtI and others who know eastern Europe (and beyond) please enlighten us.

2. How do you rate Sociedad! They have sold their key player, have they bought enough (quantity and quality) players to have a decent run in League and CL!

3. Why do teams like Plazen (BATE, Cluj, Celtic and other 'minnows') never improve. The CL money (€15-20 million) is very substential (can be 2-3 times their budget) but none of these teams rise.

I can only speak for Celtic here, our board were far too tight, between selling players and Champions League money we made £40 million +. We should've had replacements for Hooper, Wanyama and Wilson before selling. We didn't build on our position from last year but have rather taken a backwards step. We gambled on reaching the Champions League with our current squad before bringing in replacements for any of these players or a creative midfielder which we have needed for at least 3 seasons as well. This is the case with Celtic anyway.

And to add, our manager really isn't that great either and next season we should be looking for a better manager and should try and follow the Porto transfer model which we had the foundations to do this year but so far haven't.

Also as I've said in a few other threads, Shakthar certainly aren't through yet, we were utterly dreadful against them and created quite a few chances, they are a really poor side, I fancy our chances at home against them.

Edit to add, we certainly aren't minnows.

by Suarez99 Sat Aug 24, 2013 1:25 pm

Celtic have only themselves to blame, the board though they would qualify for the CL with the squad they have, total arrogance imho.

They are refusing to fork out £6m on Alfred Finnbogason, which would be a cracking player for them.

Any thoughts on which country has the strongest teams this year? I hate to say it but probably England.

by johnjohnsonrm Sun Aug 25, 2013 10:55 am

How the hell are two Portuguese teams in the Pot 1? I can understand Porto's inclusion as they are CL regulars and won the Europa a few years ago, but Benf*****fica?

by S Sun Aug 25, 2013 10:59 am

By padding co-efficient points in the Europa League.

by johnjohnsonrm Sun Aug 25, 2013 11:00 am

jibers wrote:How are City in pot 3 still? Makes no sense

how does sacking 2 years straight in the groups not make sense?

UEfa coefficient only applies to European competition football, so u can win 5 straight EPL titles, but if u suck in UEFA tournaments, fair and square u aren't worthy of higher seeding.

by Hawky Sun Aug 25, 2013 11:55 am

Barcelona
Marseille
Dortmund
FC Kobenhavn

I'd love to see Barcelona - Dortmund.

by Hawky Tue Aug 27, 2013 10:39 pm

Benfica / Porto
CSKA / Marseille
Ajax / Galatasaray
Steaua Bucharest

Steaua to qualify Very Happy

(very wishful thinking)...

by AltoZ Tue Aug 27, 2013 10:47 pm

ManU will get that group.

by aleumdance Tue Aug 27, 2013 10:51 pm

arsenal, olympiakos, a Bundesliga side, an eastern europe side/ new UCL side..

always like that

by Ciprian Tue Aug 27, 2013 11:15 pm

I would like a group like that for Steaua:
Barcelona (I want to see Messi & Co live)
CSKA Moscow
FC Basel
Steaua Bucharest

by rwo power Tue Aug 27, 2013 11:31 pm

Ciprian wrote:I would like a group like that for Steaua:
Barcelona (I want to see Messi & Co live)
CSKA Moscow
FC Basel
Steaua Bucharest

Hm... Both FCBs to proceed?

by Ciprian Tue Aug 27, 2013 11:38 pm

rwo power wrote:
Ciprian wrote:I would like a group like that for Steaua:
Barcelona (I want to see Messi & Co live)
CSKA Moscow
FC Basel
Steaua Bucharest
Hm... Both FCBs to proceed?

I don't think so. Anyway, may be a problem with the shirts colours Laughing

by McAgger Tue Aug 27, 2013 11:43 pm

Really hoping for

Bayern, Juventus, Man City, Sociedad
and
Barca, PSG, Dortmund, Napoli
and
United, Atleti, Leverkusen, anyone

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