Arsenal look terrific today.

When i said outstanding i meant results wise.... performance wise i agree you were just doing enough.

If they carry their 'grinding out' results approach which they took on since their Bayern loss, they can finish 3rd at max. This approach made their defense look better and not individuals. Don't see it happening though, and they'll only resort to such measures when top 4 starts looking bleak.

urbaNRoots wrote:We need a striker and DM not because Giroud and Arteta are terrible. They're needed because we have no other option if one of the two gets injured/suspended.

CB not needed imo with Mertesacker, Koscielny, Vermaelen, Sagna and possibly Gustavo if we sign him.

RB although not top priority, maybe is not such a bad idea, Jenkinson still raw and Sagna will have to cover for CB sometimes.

DM and striker needed without selling anyone.

At the beginning of the summer I thought we might need some more creativity upfront aswell, but if someone as versatile as Suarez is signed than there's no need for that either.

Striker and DM should be top priority, while RB, GK and AM/LW depends on other variables like departures, what type of striker is signed etc...

Arteta is far from terrible. Just lost alot physically.

Giroud is a solid striker just can't be first choice.

Yohan Modric wrote:Haven't seen the match, but it's only pre-season. Plus they need an elite striker, Giroud isn't one.

I just don't buy this at all. I don't know what some people expect out of Giroud? He moved leagues last year played for a team that was very inconsistent last year and IMO played great and had a very good return in goals and assists.

I think some people just want Arsenal to buy a striker just so it looks like there spending money. They spent the money last year bought Giroud and he has played very well. There is no reason to over-spend $30-40 million to buy a guy like Soldado who is a good player but not an upgrade over Giroud.

The only 2 players worth the money right now are Rooney and Suarez and they are not going to Arsenal.

With that being said they would have to spend another year waiting for a guy to adapt to the EPL which is just what they did with Giroud. It really makes no sense what-so-ever.

They have depth there as they can play Walcott up top, they just got Sanogo, and people may laugh but they also have Bendtner, They would have to buy someone IMO better then Giroud, Walcott, Sanogo, and Bendtner which I just don't see happening. I mean for the people yelling and screaming they need a striker who do you think they should get? Again Liverpool will not sell to them and if Rooney leaves Chelsea is getting him and that's where he wants to go.

The money needs to be spent on a DM, keeper and some help on defense. Again like I said in another thread letting Paulinho go to Spurs for not very much money was a mistake on Arsenal's part. He is just they player they need. And they have needed a top class keeper for so long now.

Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:

sportsczy wrote:Arsenal need a DM, CB depth signing and a CM depth signing at minimum.

The team is not very deep in those positions and we all know Arsenal's luck with injuries.

Why do they need a CM? Arteta, Ramsey, Wilshere and Rosicky more than cover that and Oxlade can play there very comfortably too.

DM and CB i agree with though.

Rosicky is a AM... and with a 4132, you need a lot of midfield cover imo. Arteta is the "1" who sits in front of the defense with no cover. And then you have Cazorla, Wilshere and Ramsey as the "3". Giroud and Walcott as the forwards. Cazorla has Rosicky as his cover. But how about Wilshere and Ramsey? There's nobody.

Adit wrote:Their squad is good enough for top 4..but clearly not good enough for title.

They obviously needs a top class striker, Giroud isnt good enough for ''top'' teams which is why Wenger is after Suarez.

Wenger is after Suarez because he is a world class player that he thought could be had on the cheap around 40 million bucks. He see's now that isn't the case and they are not going to buy him. Players of Suarez's caliber are going for $50-60 million in this transfer market. Arsenal will not pay that type of money and I don't blame them right now as strikers in this market have been massively overpriced.

But that is the caliber player they would have to bring in to make it worth while to bench Giroud and if people have not noticed there are not a lot of Luis Suarez's out there that want to leave there team.

It was a game of two entirely different halves.

In the first half, city were more defensive and physical, they dominated the early 10-15mins, after the goal arsenal got somewhat back in the game.City was pressing quite well and the regular passing game wasnt working for arsenal, this is led to occasional bursts by ox and walcot.

To put things into perspective in the 1st half
1. arsenal struggled to create chances when team was organized and defense was priority for opposition.
2. podolski was flop at CF
3. wilshere is still long way away from fitness, he cant be trusted for that CAM position
4. arsenal like always were slow to get back into formation, i saw city capatalise on this 2-3 times, wilshere and ramsey were the culprits.
5. the positive is arsenal managed to hold on the lead.

Second half, was world class display, good enough to beat bayern again. nothing else needs to be said about it. The personal were suited to their roles and this was the driving factor.

Wenger did bring on new faces later in the second half. Here we get an extra mid feilder and walcot also dropped off. This was adopted against man united and countless times last season to hold onto leads.
Second half formation before the subs was 4-3-3 after it was 4-5-1.

Suarez if he comes to arsenal will be a huge bonus    

I laugh that anyone thinks signing a world class striker is what Arsenal need to succeed as if goal scoring was their problem last year.

I hope after that game Wenger thinks they don't need to sign anyone  

Motogp69 wrote:I laugh that anyone thinks signing a world class striker is what Arsenal need to succeed as if goal scoring was their problem last year.

I hope after that game Wenger thinks they don't need to sign anyone  

They do though..... they struggled to break down teams a lot last year and missed a lot of chances that if a quality CF was there they would have taked and won them games on many occasions.

Don't let the goal scoring total fool you, they struggled for goals last year majority of the time but then thrashed a few certain teams to distort the numbers and mislead.

They desperate need a quality forward to replace when Van Persie gave them as well some presence in midfield and a CB.

Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:

Motogp69 wrote:I laugh that anyone thinks signing a world class striker is what Arsenal need to succeed as if goal scoring was their problem last year.

I hope after that game Wenger thinks they don't need to sign anyone  

They do though..... they struggled to break down teams a lot last year and missed a lot of chances that if a quality CF was there they would have taked and won them games on many occasions.

Don't let the goal scoring total fool you, they struggled for goals last year majority of the time but then thrashed a few certain teams to distort the numbers and mislead.

They desperate need a quality forward to replace when Van Persie gave them as well some presence in midfield and a CB.

The way some people go on about Giroud on this forum you would assume that's already sorted...

Giroud is a good player but he misses way too many chances and is too static for Arsenal's game to be the long term solution.

Meh i am not going to take anything from this match. Was far more happy with the individual performances and the tactics.

Man City have looked hot and cold throughout the pre season. Yaya and Fernandinho were pretty poor together. They need time to gel. Silva however looked very good and i am kinda happy to see him looking sharp.

Our squad atm is good enough to finish 4th or 3rd depending on luck/injuries. But it won't win the title as it requires very very special players in Suarez and Gustavo.

Motogp69 wrote:I laugh that anyone thinks signing a world class striker is what Arsenal need to succeed as if goal scoring was their problem last year. 

Well, at times, goalscoring was a problem. It just wasn't the only one. Defending was also a concern, especially before the final run-in when things improved a lot. But now there need to be reinforcements all along the spine (and some people think a creative player as well, maybe on the wings), so signing a top-notch attacker and a really solid DM/CM are most fans' two most wanted signings, I think.

And some things can/should/will be improved through the training and also young players' continued development. Signings aren't the only way Arsenal will need to improve things.

Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:

Motogp69 wrote:I laugh that anyone thinks signing a world class striker is what Arsenal need to succeed as if goal scoring was their problem last year.

I hope after that game Wenger thinks they don't need to sign anyone  

They do though..... they struggled to break down teams a lot last year and missed a lot of chances that if a quality CF was there they would have taked and won them games on many occasions.

Don't let the goal scoring total fool you, they struggled for goals last year majority of the time but then thrashed a few certain teams to distort the numbers and mislead.

They desperate need a quality forward to replace when Van Persie gave them as well some presence in midfield and a CB.

I think every team would like the luxury of buying a world class center forward as there are not many of them out there. For the last 3 transfer windows we have heard that Arsenal have about 60-80 mill to spend and they end up spending either half of that or less.

The real number that Wenger WOULD ACTUALLY SPEND to fix ALL POSITIONS is probably more like 30-40 mill. That's not my opinion but past history tells you there is no way Wenger is spending anywhere near the figures being thrown out there.

So with that being said, let's live in the real world. Everyone saying Arsenal need to sign a striker can you please tell us who realistically they are going to sign in this window? And SHOULD THEY forego the changes needed at DM and keeper to sign a striker?

If I were Arsene Wenger with 40 mill to play with I would spend 20 mill each on a DM and a keeper.

Dnmac4 wrote:The real number that Wenger WOULD ACTUALLY SPEND to fix ALL POSITIONS is probably more like 30-40 mill.  That's not my opinion but past history tells you there is no way Wenger is spending anywhere near the figures being thrown out there.

So are the 40m+ bids for Suarez just for laughs? Reported 20m+ bids for Lars Bender and maybe Bernard (if they actually did go that high)?

Past history (particularly Emirates-era history) does show Wenger has always looked for value. But before that was just before the rise of billionaire/oil money, before which I believe Wenger actually did spend substantial sums relative to rival clubs if he felt the price was right. The period of belt-tightening that characterized Wenger after the Invincibles era isn't necessarily the one that will characterize Wenger in a period when Arsenal's debt is more manageable, when the club (not just journalists) have come out making statements left and right about how much money they have*, and when there are better commercial deals and sponsorships bringing in a lot more money.

(* Which may have backfired a bit.)

Chumlum wrote:

Dnmac4 wrote:The real number that Wenger WOULD ACTUALLY SPEND to fix ALL POSITIONS is probably more like 30-40 mill.  That's not my opinion but past history tells you there is no way Wenger is spending anywhere near the figures being thrown out there.

So are the 40m+ bids for Suarez just for laughs? Reported 20m+ bids for Lars Bender and maybe Bernard (if they actually did go that high)?

Past history (particularly Emirates-era history) does show Wenger has always looked for value. But before that was just before the rise of billionaire/oil money, before which I believe Wenger actually did spend substantial sums relative to rival clubs if he felt the price was right. The period of belt-tightening that characterized Wenger after the Invincibles era isn't necessarily the one that will characterize Wenger in a period when Arsenal's debt is more manageable, when the club (not just journalists) have come out making statements left and right about how much money they have*, and when there are better commercial deals and sponsorships bringing in a lot more money.

(* Which may have backfired a bit.)

Every analyst and person who knows anything about the transfer market will tell you that 40 million + 1 dollar bid for Suarez was a total joke.  In fact it is actually the sole reason Liverpool WILL NOT sell Suarez to Arsenal because they were so pissed off at the bid.  

Arsenal thought that bid would trigger his release clause and when it didn't they knew they couldn't basically steal Suarez from Liverpool so they are not going to pay what it takes to buy him.

They had a price for Higuain in there mind that THEY WANTED TO PAY not what IT TAKES TO BUY HIM.  So again they stopped there pursuit and were out bid by Napoli.  Do I think Napoli over-paid for Higgy, yes very much so.  But they paid what it takes to buy him, something Wenger has showed time and again either on transfer fee or player salary that he is not willing to do.

This transfer window is a perfect example of that I don't know where you have seen any proof to prove otherwise.

Bernard was sold to Shaktar for 21.5 mill so no Wenger wasn't willing to pay what you are assuming and Bender's bid was refused so again he wasn't willing to pay what the club wanted for him.  Not to mention if he bought either Bender or Bernard he would not bid for the other player.  

Yes those bids were (as you put it) just for laughs.  Wenger knew the clubs were not going to accept them they were a starting point for negotiations but Wenger was never willing to go any higher.

I don't know how much proof you need to see Wenger WILL NOT OVERSPEND to force a team to sell a player which is what most of the movers and shakers in the transfer market have routinely done.

Arsenal never bid for Higuain, only agreed personal terms then switched target when Suarez became available and wanted to join.

It was a friendly match, get real all of you. Jeez

Dnmac4 wrote:I don't know how much proof you need to see Wenger WILL NOT OVERSPEND to force a team to sell a player which is what most of the movers and shakers in the transfer market have routinely done.

Bud, relax! I like your posts a lot so I'm not trying to troll you, and it's not like I'm failing to see your point.

You're talking about two different things now.

First thing you said, which I questioned, was that Wenger absolutely wouldn't spend more than 30-40m on all transfers. You weren't saying probability-wise, you were saying it's just impossible for him and for Arsenal and we know this because Arsenal haven't spent big in recent seasons, therefore they will never spend big no matter how much money they have. (That is a possible scenario, but it's by no means logically necessary.) I was pointing out that certain bids Arsenal have made which were reputably recorded have added up to substantial sums, ones that would go higher than 30-40m.

But now you're saying that Arsene Wenger is temperamentally disinclined to pay above his own personal valuation of a player. That's not the same thing as before, and it's not something I really disagree with. It's well-established and whispered among Arsenal sources that this is exactly how AW often operates.

Chumlum wrote:

Dnmac4 wrote:I don't know how much proof you need to see Wenger WILL NOT OVERSPEND to force a team to sell a player which is what most of the movers and shakers in the transfer market have routinely done.

Bud, relax! I like your posts a lot so I'm not trying to troll you, and it's not like I'm failing to see your point.

You're talking about two different things now.

First thing you said, which I questioned, was that Wenger absolutely wouldn't spend more than 30-40m on all transfers. You weren't saying probability-wise, you were saying it's just impossible for him and for Arsenal and we know this because Arsenal haven't spent big in recent seasons, therefore they will never spend big no matter how much money they have. (That is a possible scenario, but it's by no means logically necessary.) I was pointing out that certain bids Arsenal have made which were reputably recorded have added up to substantial sums, ones that would go higher than 30-40m.

But now you're saying that Arsene Wenger is temperamentally disinclined to pay above his own personal valuation of a player. That's not the same thing as before, and it's not something I really disagree with. It's well-established and whispered among Arsenal sources that this is exactly how AW often operates.

Arsenal has given out these massive evaluations of how much money they have to spend and they never come anywhere close to spending that amount of money and that will not change for 3 reasons.

1) Wenger will never buy a player for a huge amount of money (50-60 mill) because he would always rather buy 2-3 good players then 1 great player. Over the past 5 years or so they have been losing there great players and replacing them with good players.

2) Wenger is married to his wage scale and if you buy a player for 50-60 million you have to pay them what a top player wants to make and Wenger will just not go there. It's obvious he doesn't think 1 or 2 players is worth breaking his wage structure.

3) This piggybacks on point 2. Players know Arsenal is not the place to go to "get paid". It's not a coincidence that all the biggest and best players go to teams that offer the biggest salaries. In turn players do not force there way out of there team to go play for Arsenal, it's the other way around. The players force there way out of Arsenal to go get paid.

This is not an opinion or going by probability it's a fact. You have transfer window after transfer window to prove it. As long as Wenger is in charge of Arsenal and refuses to break his wage scale they will never spend the kind of money you are talking about, not even close.

If you haven't noticed Wenger is a pretty stubborn guy and he doesn't feel any pressure from the board or fans to go spend money. In turn Arsenal will not fire Wenger I think that's also pretty obvious by now so again they will not go spend huge money. It's just not going to happen.

You can sit there and believe the board all you want but Wenger runs the show.

danyjr wrote:It was a friendly match, get real all of you. Jeez

I don't always agree with you but here I certainly do.

So if this game happened a week from now then it would be OK to discuss it?

I guess we couldn't draw anything from the Madrid-Chelsea game either, huh?

There is a reason they play friendlies you know and this is a football website where we discuss football.

You're right, the game wouldn't have been any different if it was an EPL game instead of a friendly.

Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:Arsenal have been outstanding ever since they changed the system in February its not really much of a surprise.

There's a reason why they got more points than Man Yoo in 2nd half of season and had the best defensive record.

They will go a lot closer this year if they start the way they finished last year, signings or no signings.

Although i still kinda expect them to strengthen before the deadline.

REWB wrote:we didnt dominate possession though, has wenger changed us into a pure counter attacking team or something? i wasnt happy with some of our wayward passes imo. this is a great result but it is clear we need to reinforce upront.

time to go on blue moon though

Diego Armando Maradona wrote:

Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:Arsenal have been outstanding ever since they changed the system in February its not really much of a surprise.

There's a reason why they got more points than Man Yoo in 2nd half of season and had the best defensive record.

They will go a lot closer this year if they start the way they finished last year, signings or no signings.

Although i still kinda expect them to strengthen before the deadline.

Not sure outstanding is correct. We were getting results without playing very well, grinding out wins basically. We can't do that a whole season imo, our drops in form when the conditions aren't exactly right will be shambolic, the lack of class throughout the squad will hit us like a train when fatigue, injury, and everything else that effects form during a season sets in.

Desperately in need of a defensive midfielder, a striker of the creative type, and that's the bare minimum we need. Right now the starting 11 isn't good enough and neither is the squad.

Dnmac4 wrote:

Yohan Modric wrote:Haven't seen the match, but it's only pre-season. Plus they need an elite striker, Giroud isn't one.

I just don't buy this at all.  I don't know what some people expect out of Giroud?  He moved leagues last year played for a team that  was very inconsistent last year and IMO played great and had a very good return in goals and assists.

I think some people just want Arsenal to buy a striker just so it looks like there spending money.  They spent the money last year bought Giroud and he has played very well.  There is no reason to over-spend $30-40 million to buy a guy like Soldado who is a good player but not an upgrade over Giroud.

The only 2 players worth the money right now are Rooney and Suarez and they are not going to Arsenal.

With that being said they would have to spend another year waiting for a guy to adapt to the EPL which is just what they did with Giroud.  It really makes no sense what-so-ever.  

They have depth there as they can play Walcott up top, they just got Sanogo, and people may laugh but they also have Bendtner, They would have to buy someone IMO better then Giroud, Walcott, Sanogo, and Bendtner which I just don't see happening.  I mean for the people yelling and screaming they need a striker who do you think they should get?  Again Liverpool will not sell to them and if Rooney leaves Chelsea is getting him and that's where he wants to go.

The money needs to be spent on a DM, keeper and some help on defense.  Again like I said in another thread letting Paulinho go to Spurs for not very much money was a mistake on Arsenal's part.  He is just they player they need.  And they have needed a top class keeper for so long now.

Good discussions, but I want to confirm, so Arsenal system now is a counter attacking team instead of possession one from b4? Or a bit of both? I find it hard to digest that they would but change to dramatically. Sorry about being so outdated

The question about the striker. I dont see how Higuain wont be suited to Arsenal. I certainly agree Giroud is good, but he does miss chances and not as creative and linkup well as Higuain obviously, Higuain is many things opposite of Giroud which would have been great for Arsenal I think. Podolski will always be overrated for me, and dont think Arsenal can reply on him, nor Germany

danyjr wrote:It was a friendly match, get real all of you. Jeez

Dat madness that Zabaleta got pwned