Re: Sepp: Brazil might be a mistake

by VendettaRed07 Thu May 08, 2014 6:37 pm

Sad..The ninth in eight years. Whenever someone did fall, get injured or died, the construction stopped for the day, some cases longer. Brazil at least makes the effort to create safer work environments when incidents like this happen and has handled matters appropriately when they did.

But it just pales in comparison to what is happening ln Qatar why many people don't really talk about it.. 342 workers have died in the past 2 years. On pace for nearly 2,000 slave labor related deaths by the time the 2022 WC roles around

lt is just incredibly frustrating that FlFA losses their minds over the protesting in Brazil.. Ponders that they made a mistake because of some burning busses.. But seem to turn a blind eye to this

by Nivash Sat May 10, 2014 8:26 am

It's exactly the same as in South Africa. In the months leading up to the WC, there were all talks of a plan B country ready to take over, worries about stadium readiness, uproar over the costs of the WC also in light of service delivery failures, strikes and protests, and it all turned out just perfect. There were just as many concerns over what the stadia would be used for post-WC, but largely, there's been no concerns in the years following the WC.

If SA was anything to go by, Brazil will be awesome.

by Nivash Sat May 10, 2014 8:31 am

Betty La Fea wrote:
McLewis wrote:
Betty La Fea wrote:

Thing is Qatar actually has hospitals where folks dont have lay on floors for ~2 days if they are poor(although they do have other human rights violations)

Folks really dont have a realistic view of Brazil other than a few rich Kaka looking kids on the beach in the south part of the country and super models with footballers.

Life is really rough there. I'm talking large cities where, if you are a tourist, you cant even stop at street lights at night rough.

Residents who get nothing from the government having their housing destroyed to make way for an event nobody needs.

I'm glad the protests erupted during the confederations cup too. There is a sick, digusting, and unrealistic narrative worldwide that everybody in Brazil is happy, simple-minded, watermelon-smiled brown people who are happy to live out their days dacing in their own filth during carnival, and playing football. The truth of the matter is the country is in big crap. Rich getting richer, poor getting poorer, and nobody really caring. Babies dying in their mothers arms in hospitals because doctors cant see them. Just poor infastructure all around, but there is money for a world cup? For an Olympics.......its a joke.

None of that is particularly specific to Brazil though. All nations of its size and population face the same issues.

I've never seen folks wait days in American or Canadian ERs.

In fact, according to the CDC, average wait times even in Urban areas of America were only an hour
http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/databriefs/db102.htm

Folks in areas in the north of Brazil would kill for that.

You're comparing 1st world countries to a country largely in transition (not quite first world, but with an economy performing much better than is expected of the 3rd world). The problems that Brazil are facing are no different to what would be experienced in virtually any other country that isn't 1st world. To postulate that the WC is a mistake due to those concerns is to imply that the 3rd world should never host a WC. That wouldn't make it a WC; it would be a cup Rich Countries of the World Cup.

by che Sat May 10, 2014 8:54 am

yeah, i can't imagine that only countries who can afford to host the world cup would do so, while those who can't would have to invest in things like infrastructure and public healthcare instead of megalomaniacal one-time projects... what a horrible idea that would be

where did this "everyone deserves to host the world cup" idea come from anyway? it's like nobody understands that it's a privilege, not a right... i expect a serious proposal that every country should put its name on a piece of paper and the next world cup host will be randomly drawn out of a hat because IT'S THE WORLD CUP IT BELONGS TO EVERYONE

by Art Morte Sat May 10, 2014 9:39 am

che wrote:yeah, i can't imagine that only countries who can afford to host the world cup would do so, while those who can't would have to invest in things like infrastructure and public healthcare instead of megalomaniacal one-time projects... what a horrible idea that would be

where did this "everyone deserves to host the world cup" idea come from anyway? it's like nobody understands that it's a privilege, not a right... i expect a serious proposal that every country should put its name on a piece of paper and the next world cup host will be randomly drawn out of a hat because IT'S THE WORLD CUP IT BELONGS TO EVERYONE

Well, it's not FIFA's responsibility to say to a country like Brazil that "we like your proposal, your bid is good, but we think you should be spending your resources on health care instead". If a nation bids for the World Cup, it's only their own responsibility to know what they're doing.

However, when the corrupt FIFA grants the tournament to Qatar with so many intrinsic problems with the tournament being organized there, that's an issue. I don't think the idea itself of the World Cup in Brazil faces any resistance from the football community, but the Qatar one does, and that should be some sort of common sense division between to which countries the World Cup may be given and to which not. Does the location itself face resistance from the football community.

by Arquitecto Sat May 10, 2014 11:20 am

This World Cup is turning out to be an utter joke. Brazil quite obviously was not prepared of an event of such magnitude.

by VivaStPauli Sat May 10, 2014 11:54 am

Well to be fair, risks have to be taken at some point, we can't just have all World Cups be in Europe, the US, and Japan/S. Korea for eternity, though maybe Brazil should've gotten the 2018 one, 2014 maybe a European country, again, and 2022 anyone but bloody Qatar.

And frankly, Brazil just tried to overachieve, which is what knocked them on their asses; if they had just used a few more existing stadiums, and weren't so balls-out ambitious about stadium designs and sizes, they would've been finished building last year's january.

by che Sat May 10, 2014 1:00 pm

Art Morte wrote:

Well, it's not FIFA's responsibility to say to a country like Brazil that "we like your proposal, your bid is good, but we think you should be spending your resources on health care instead". If a nation bids for the World Cup, it's only their own responsibility to know what they're doing.

but surely they can't consider the bids out of context... it's nice if a country is going to spend 500 million on related infrastructure and state of the art stadiums but if 15% of the people are living in abject poverty then their priorities should probably be elsewhere... a huge portion of brazilians hate the world cup and olympics bids, precisely because they're seeing how much of their tax money is being wasted on something that will bring absolutely no benefit in the long run

but that's of course implying that fifa care about anything other than filling their own pockets

by rwo power Sat May 10, 2014 1:07 pm

I think Brazil's big bistake was going for the World Cup *and* the Olympic games within only a short time as these are both huge and very costly events.

by Art Morte Sat May 10, 2014 3:42 pm

che wrote:
Art Morte wrote:

Well, it's not FIFA's responsibility to say to a country like Brazil that "we like your proposal, your bid is good, but we think you should be spending your resources on health care instead". If a nation bids for the World Cup, it's only their own responsibility to know what they're doing.

but surely they can't consider the bids out of context... it's nice if a country is going to spend 500 million on related infrastructure and state of the art stadiums but if 15% of the people are living in abject poverty then their priorities should probably be elsewhere... a huge portion of brazilians hate the world cup and olympics bids, precisely because they're seeing how much of their tax money is being wasted on something that will bring absolutely no benefit in the long run

but that's of course implying that fifa care about anything other than filling their own pockets

It's not FIFA's responsibility to try and estimate whether it makes financial sense for a country to host the World Cup. It's each country's own decision.

If we stick to democratic thinking, then if 51% of Brazilians were in favour of bidding, they did the right thing. Even if the remaining 49% hate it. Although I'm under the impression that most - over 51% - of Brazilians were in favour of bidding back when the bidding process was open and it's only during the preparation process and its difficulties when more and more people have realised that they could probably do something smarter with their money.

In short, FIFA cannot be blamed for giving the tournament to Brazil. FIFA can be blamed for giving it to Qatar, though.

by BarrileteCosmico Sat May 10, 2014 3:52 pm

@Che at least people in Brazil are protesting what they consider to be outrageous spending. Hell people in London protested the Olympics too. In Qatar we have yet to hear of a single protest against the murder of thousands...

Also can't believe people are comparing Brazil to Qatar. 8 deaths vs over 3000 projected Laughing

by Forza Sat May 10, 2014 4:07 pm

VivaStPauli wrote:Well to be fair, risks have to be taken at some point, we can't just have all World Cups be in Europe, the US, and Japan/S. Korea for eternity, though maybe Brazil should've gotten the 2018 one, 2014 maybe a European country, again, and 2022 anyone but bloody Qatar.

And frankly, Brazil just tried to overachieve, which is what knocked them on their asses; if they had just used a few more existing stadiums, and weren't so balls-out ambitious about stadium designs and sizes, they would've been finished building last year's january.

Australia wanted 2022, but even the Oceania representative in the Ex-Co voted for someone else. Hell, even Japan got more votes, despite having hosted the 2002 WC. Only Beckenbauer voted for Australia in the first round. The fundamental problem is that FIFA is corrupt from the top to the bottom and whilst Sepp says Brazil is a mistake, the football fans of the world are saying Sepp was a mistake. Are we meant to praise his admission that Brazil was a mistake now? Merely a month before the WC is due to begin? And after his incredible lack of foresight and pathetically weak stance on corruption within the organisation he leads? What a joke.

by Hapless_Hans Sat May 10, 2014 4:13 pm

Who cares. Brazil is a great place for a football World Cup.
It will be fine.
Some dozen favela 'drug dealers' probably won't though Neutral

by Art Morte Sat May 10, 2014 4:20 pm

BarrileteCosmico wrote:@Che at least people in Brazil are protesting what they consider to be outrageous spending. Hell people in London protested the Olympics too. In Qatar we have yet to hear of a single protest against the murder of thousands...

Also can't believe people are comparing Brazil to Qatar. 8 deaths vs over 3000 projected

The World Cup being granted to Qatar didn't create that "culture" in their construction industry, it was already there. Although it's very wrong that the World Cup project is now adding its own death tally to the country's grim figures.

by Ganso Sat May 10, 2014 4:53 pm

You cant blame fifa.we brought this on ourselves, we bid for the olympics and the wc when we shouldn't have.as art said, fifa cant tell our government to make the right decision.

by BarrileteCosmico Wed May 28, 2014 12:24 am

https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-frc3/t1.0-9/10390939_609841375779748_8898930931036922899_n.jpg

by neuro11 Wed May 28, 2014 4:45 am

There were protests in front of the hotel where brazilian players were staying....do you guys think the world cup will be smooth???

by Art Morte Wed May 28, 2014 10:47 am

Does anyone know how big these latest protests are? If it's ten people it's nothing, if it's ten thousand, it's a problem.

by Ganso Wed May 28, 2014 3:36 pm

There will be a lot of protests, but there is a low threat to the players and the fans.That protest on the NT Hotel was of about 200 teachers who were just putting stickers on the NT bus.

by Art Morte Wed May 28, 2014 4:04 pm

What's the teachers' beef with the World Cup or are they just using the opportunity to protest?

by Lex Wed May 28, 2014 4:08 pm

My teachers let us watch the 2002 world cup during school hours :bow:

by BarrileteCosmico Wed May 28, 2014 4:09 pm

That why should the government be spending billions of dollars on a party if they can't pay their school teachers?

by Ganso Wed May 28, 2014 4:17 pm

Art Morte wrote:What's the teachers' beef with the World Cup or are they just using the opportunity to protest?

Well, the teachers would obviously want some of those billions to have gone to education rather than football stadiums. All of the protests we will see in the next month are because everybody is unhappy with the amount that was spent on the WC and not on everything that could have made Brazil a much better country like education, public security, health etc.

in 2007 when we got the WC to be hosted here,the government and FIFA promised that public money would not be spent, but it didn't go as planned

by Art Morte Wed May 28, 2014 4:31 pm

Mm, well, it is a valid point.

But on the other hand you could make that "why spend money on a sports event" argument in almost any country. Even like the U.S. "Why would we be spending billions on some World Cup while having to take over $2bn of debt each day just to keep this country running?" Or England: "Why would we spend billions on a World Cup when our sanitation system is from the f***ing Victorian era?"

Also the connection between teachers' wages and the World Cup spending isn't direct. I doubt the teachers would really be better off if Brazil didn't have the WC.

Also at some point you should just go "look, football is the number one sport in our country, so if we have the opportunity to host the World Cup here for the first time in 64 years, let's take it and try and have some fun".

Obviously you should first spend on essentials, but that doesn't mean that recreational spending should be ignored.

by jibers Wed May 28, 2014 5:15 pm

Ganso wrote:
Art Morte wrote:What's the teachers' beef with the World Cup or are they just using the opportunity to protest?
Well, the teachers would obviously want some of those billions to have gone to education rather than football stadiums. All of the protests we will see in the next month are because everybody is unhappy with the amount that was spent on the WC and not on everything that could have made Brazil a much better country like education, public security, health etc.

in 2007 when we got the WC to be hosted here,the government and FIFA promised that public money would not be spent, but it didn't go as planned

The whole thing is *bleep* ridiculous tbh. They have every right to protest.

by Ganso Wed May 28, 2014 5:37 pm

But there are 2 factors that makes the whole thing different from doing a sports event in Brazil and one in England/USA.England/USA are 1st world/developed countries, we aren't.For example,the difference in education and health services are brutal when we compare both countries, they can afford to delay some of these social duties when we can't, we should be doing things to make our infrastructure better asap.And the other factor is that making a WC anywhere else in the world wouldn't cost as much.The Garrincha stadium (which isn't even the main stadium in Brazil) alone cost 0.8 billion dollars while it normally should have cost about a third of that.

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