Taliban to Start Talks With U.S. and Afghan Government

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Taliban to Start Talks With U.S. and Afghan Government - Page 2 Empty Re: Taliban to Start Talks With U.S. and Afghan Government

Post by Hapless_Hans Sun Aug 15, 2021 4:37 pm

Well at least heroin production got a boost for another 20 years. So, it wasn't for nothing.

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Post by Found Sun Aug 15, 2021 5:18 pm

It would be a fascinating piece of social science to explain why Germans could be denazified but middle easterners apparently cannot be de-fanaticised
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Post by Warrior Sun Aug 15, 2021 5:21 pm

Not only a zillion dollar wasted for nothing. To share military expertise with soldiers, most of them will become deserters and join the taliban. Ironic huh

Also so many lives lost for an invented mission, maintain peace in the country and what not, only to fly off when things get hot. The initial goal was just to capture Ben Laden. I know people who served in Kandahar and a decade ago they described the mission as pointless and doomed to failure. Because all they do is defend strategic positions and secure mined zones. Never made a difference. 161 canadians died for nothing

Thousands of afghan civilians died as result of occupation, through bombings by the supposed allies. And thousands more incoming once taliban is really in control.
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Post by McLewis Sun Aug 15, 2021 5:41 pm

It was likely to always end this way, given how lacklustre our strategy has been in this war. It was just a matter of which President was good with having this on their record.

I echo the sentiments here though. It was a colossal waste of time, money, blood and lives. Reminds me much of Vietnam, accept it lasted 2 decades longer.
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Post by VivaStPauli Sun Aug 15, 2021 5:48 pm

@Found wrote:It would be a fascinating piece of social science to explain why Germans could be denazified but middle easterners apparently cannot be de-fanaticised


Money.
Germans had zero incentive to join the Nazis after the war since they could just get jobs.

Though Germany wasn't that denazified. People poll with around 11 to 17% democracy-averse xenophobic tendencies, depending on the year. As they do in the US, France, and the UK by the way. Which is coincidentally also roughly the number of active Nazis in the Nazi era, if you exclude the so-called 'Mitläufer', so basically we've just kept our Nazis, it's just that they didn't get any support anymore because people were busy rebuilding the Republic.

ISIS and the Taliban had a lot fewer recruits if you could just start building VW beetles and listen to Nena in the middle east, and get paid doing that.
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Post by BarrileteCosmico Sun Aug 15, 2021 6:15 pm

Brutal to see the Taliban take up the entire country so quickly.

The US went in for all the bad reasons and should have kept away, but nevertheless it's hard not to feel for all those who love and/or benefit from civil liberties they will now lose.

Yet another stain, and loss, in the US' record.
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Post by VivaStPauli Sun Aug 15, 2021 7:26 pm

Yeah the US armed the Taliban, then lost to them. Should've just stayed the fuck away. Huge tragedy, all of it.
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Post by RealGunner Sun Aug 15, 2021 8:03 pm

20 years in Afghanistan for what? Things are worse than ever.

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Post by BarrileteCosmico Sun Aug 15, 2021 8:29 pm

Just a month ago

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Post by sportsczy Sun Aug 15, 2021 10:25 pm

Forget the politics... i feel bad for the women of Afghanistan.  Do not understand how that is not a human rights violation that the whole international community should stop.

If I'm a foreign country - friend, foe, or neutral - history shows that you should never trust the US... or any of the superpowers for that matter.  None of them give a rat's ass about you.  Only want your resources or the strategic value you bring to them.  Nothing is done out of the goodness of their hearts or "for the good of humanity".  It's all bs.

For the US, let's not forget the Kurds just a little while back too. That one makes me furious just thinking about it.
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Post by McLewis Sun Aug 15, 2021 11:21 pm

Good thought on the women of Afghanistan. However bad the men will have it, the women can expect worse. Especially considering how singularly repressive the Taliban is.
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Post by BarrileteCosmico Sun Aug 15, 2021 11:22 pm

Young women are reportedly already been round up to be offered as spoils of war to taliban members. Makes the blood boil.
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Post by sportsczy Sun Aug 15, 2021 11:47 pm

I don't understand how we let this knowingly happen in 2021. It's inexcusable.
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Post by BarcaLearning Mon Aug 16, 2021 4:54 am

I used to think like that too, but too naive Razz There is no incentive to do anything to help, its all just about money and power and influence for own's gain, which has ran out.
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Post by Myesyats Mon Aug 16, 2021 9:48 am



At first I was like "wow", but on second thought these rules are already law in my country Laughing

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Post by Robespierre Mon Aug 16, 2021 10:12 am

Copied by Italian 's far right agenda
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Post by Robespierre Mon Aug 16, 2021 10:12 am

Ok I see we thought same thing Sad


@BarrileteCosmico wrote:Young women are reportedly already been round up to be offered as spoils of war to taliban members. Makes the blood boil.

You can read Italian so this piece of article, it's incredible how story 's gone back for Afghanistan

https://www.corriere.it/dataroom-milena-gabanelli/afghanistan-minigonne-talebani-storia-all-incontrario/fdfb3cc6-8b65-11e8-9286-fc73853597eb-va.shtml

in 70s it was tourist destination for Europeans , mainly hippies ( Indian spiritualy or more simply marijuana.There were hotels, hostels, guest houses and travelers told of the extraordinary hospitality received by people in that area.....  ), Kabul was city ​​open to the world . Women weren't segretated. Atheism ( Socialist state ) and not Radical Islamism gave some positive reflects....


Last edited by Robespierre on Mon Aug 16, 2021 11:01 am; edited 1 time in total
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Post by Robespierre Mon Aug 16, 2021 11:01 am

Afghanistan was born as buffer state   between two empires (English and Tsarist), prey to easy conqusites ( English, the Tsarist empire, the USSR, and the United States) .

It is a strategic country, due to its geographical position. In 1979 the USSR invaded it to increase its control zone. and Sovietic faced tough resistance, it is an excellent basis for guerrilla warfare  due to its physical and political geography.
Anyway it’s a country impossible to be governed.
in this easily   context  easily explosive we should talk on how the Taliban were born and the Western responsibilities for it.

Taliban were born after the invasion of USSR, armed by the Americans and indoctrinated by the Arabs.
they get definite strength  after the civil war in 94. Country's devastated from civil war.
Their leader is Mullah Omar, a Mujaideen fighter, mullah, a decidedly radical  religious leader : no images, no music, no entertainment, no pets, no women who must be used exclusively for reproduction.
In this eternal chaos… Generations used to live in fear and war, idea of stability make inroads into rural areas.
They are  areas of illiterate people where at most children go to the Koranic schools ( Marasse) , where they learn by heart and without understanding the verses of the Koran.
The north of Afghanistan is more advanced,  at Kabul there are universities, girls dress in fashion, in the 70s it was a destination for hippy travelers….
Everything  got wiped out in a short time. They conquer country till to Kabul and they etabilish regime in 1996. Afghanistan turns into a nightmare , where women are slaves and they can't be even cured.
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Post by Pedram Mon Aug 16, 2021 11:29 am

Damn just checked /r/PublicFreakout

Looks like utter chaos as people are trying to flee, surreal stuff.
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Post by Pedram Mon Aug 16, 2021 1:12 pm



NSFW:

Jesus Christ
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Post by El Gunner Mon Aug 16, 2021 1:35 pm

i mean i get the desperation but surely you knew there would only be one outcome for clinging onto an airplane taking off
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Post by BarrileteCosmico Mon Aug 16, 2021 2:44 pm

The thing that I struggle to understand, is that if everyone knew that the Afghanistan government was a house of cards ready to fall at any moment, and that there was a deadline to get out of there by 8/31 that everyone has known about for a year, why weren't the western powers involved not issuing emergency visas for this entire time? It's great they are now doing it, but it seems that this crunch was entirely preventable.
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Post by sportsczy Mon Aug 16, 2021 3:56 pm

Because the Western Powers can't tie their own shoelaces right now... and they don't give a shit about people as human beings. All they care about are people as political constituents.
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Post by VivaStPauli Mon Aug 16, 2021 6:50 pm

@Myesyats wrote:

At first I was like "wow", but on second thought these rules are already law in my country Laughing


Isn't that just red states in America?
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Post by VivaStPauli Mon Aug 16, 2021 7:03 pm

@BarrileteCosmico wrote:The thing that I struggle to understand, is that if everyone knew that the Afghanistan government was a house of cards ready to fall at any moment, and that there was a deadline to get out of there by 8/31 that everyone has known about for a year, why weren't the western powers involved not issuing emergency visas for this entire time? It's great they are now doing it, but it seems that this crunch was entirely preventable.


It's all been a sham. All western governments, not just the US, have systematically lied to their citizens about Afghanistan. It wasn't smart lies, mind you, anyone could see they were lying. It's just that people didn't care all that much.
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Post by McLewis Tue Aug 17, 2021 2:25 am

Comments from Biden:



I think most Americans, though they feel for the plight of many Afghans, particularly the women, view this as the ripping off of a bandaid. It's initially painful, but still the right thing to do. I don't think anyone likes the way this was done and I do think there must've been some type of lapse in Intelligence in-country if Biden had to admit to the nation and the world that the Taliban's rapid retaking of the country progressed faster than anticipated. Politically, any lapse in communication like that is hurtful to his political capital.

How history will view this depends largely on how many people trying to flee the country end up dying at the hands of the Taliban and how many people we resettle under the Special Immigrant Visa program. Right now it's just allies who helped us (like translators). I think it needs to be expanded to anyone who doesn't want to live under Taliban rule. Maybe it will get there, but how many killed before that happens will have an impact on how Biden's role in this is viewed.
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