CL team of the tournament

Zealous wrote:

The Sanchez wrote:-------------------Weindenfeller----------------------
------Pisczeck-----T.Silva----Chellini-----Alaba-----
------------Gundogan--------Martinez---------------
------Muller------------Reus-------------Robben----
---------------------Lewandowski--------------------

Don't understand why Gundogan and Schweini are being mentioned at all...

And you yet you put Gundogan in your team lol

lmao

Gundogan and Martinez were both better than Vidal.

Hell Gundogan and Martinez were the best midfielders in the entire competition which is why most people have picked them.

Anyway....


I thought Dante was poor in the final but that aside he was fantastic and i was close to picking Ribery just purely for his consistency, work rate ( seriously Alaba didn't even have to defend at times ) and overall importance to Bayern's success.

But he didn't have as many outstanding moments as the 4 attackers i chose.

Gundogan was by far the best and most influential midfielder in this campaign.

-----------Weidenfeller----------
Piszczek-- TS--- Dante ---Lahm
-Schweins.-Martinez-Gundogan-
--Robben---Lewandowski-Muller

M99 wrote:

DeviAngel wrote:

M99 wrote:FFS Juve fans. Gundogan and Martinez were both outstanding and one of the most vital players of their respective teams that went all the way to the final. That's why they are picked over Vidal. inb4besttacklingstats

Stats or no stats that's the truth You can always put the three of them in same team no1 said take them out. Vidal deserved it. But the hate is strong in you

Hate? According to me, Vidal has been best midfielder in Serie A this season and probably best player too but in the Champions League Martinez, Gundogan and Schweinstniger has been better than him. I also put Chiellini over Dante, Hummels and Subotic. Putting a 3 man midfield will mean sacrificing Reus, Muller/Robben etc who all deserve their place over Vidal. So it's not a 'joke' that Vidal is being overlooked. Only Juventus fans are thinking it's a joke, so yeah, we are all jokes but you all are harbingers of truth and football.

Yes

Some are placing Lahm at left back , just to fit in Piszczek .. others because they only found out about Gundogan's quality in this CL season place him over Schweinsteiger , just , mind blowing.. Weidenfeller gets picked instead of Neuer for who knows what reason really.. like seriously now?

A few examples , do you recall how many shots and chances Neuer blocked in the first half of the final ?Basicaly speaking , when Dortmund gave their best in the final , there was Neuer to deny them. Flawless against Barcelona and Juventus , even though credit goes to the whole defence obviously. Weidenfeller didn't have that kind of defensive work in front of him , yet Dortmund probably run the most out of every team during this season CL and had solid performances as well. There's not even a contest here , just because Weidenfeller had the best season of his career , doesn't mean he did better than Neuer .

Schweinsteiger , wow. He's the single core that makes everything happen in Bayern. From flawless retaining of possesion under pressure , to accurasy , workrate and connectivity between the lines , utterly on top of his game. He's been playing passes to every single player in his team , very rarely out of position and when he must , he'll make the dirty work as well. I reiterate , if there's one player who will 100% be in the official CL team of the competition , it will be him. Martinez was the transfer of the season , yet how do you think established himself since day 1 at Bayern ? It's because of Schweinsteiger allows him to play at the top of his quality , Bastian is an excellent team player who's proven , especialy this season , that he has the full and beyond 2nd thoughts trust of his teammates , thus allowing the team to explode when Bastian is in possesion .

Gundogan is a fantastic player and has everything to become an elite player very soon , i am not even making speculations about his quality. And i do respect everyone's choice to choose him instead of Schweinsteiger if that's what they like , hell even those who chose Vidal instead of Bastian/Gundogan/Martinez who am i to judge lol..

Just don't push this , Schweinsteiger's only weakness is that he's a bit slow compared to the other candidates , yet his work has even more value lacking a bit in pace. He masterminded everything from his place for Bayern this season , be it to defend , lend a hand under pressure , begin attacks , combine with Martinez , hold possesion up front , he does everything so very simply well enough.

Mayhaps his simple but utterly effective way of playing isn't that comprehendable to many people , thus judging him as not that impressive .. perhaps they might preffer some good dribbles here and there like Gundogan has shown near the middle of the park , but in the end of the day , he has done the job better than Gundogan this season. Both players's teams had excellent performances this season as well , spare me the teammates did that or didn't this argument , both did what was humanly possible and it showed .

Just to finish this off , Piggy-Javi has been the best dual pivot there was this season , one would be at least mad to deny that. Bayern won the CL with them playing and dominating almost every game , yet somehow according to most of GL , Gundogan is able to outbalance this mastermind of a duo .

Last sentence for Lahm and Alaba . Lahm was the best RB of the competition by far , please do him that small honour if you like and place him correctly at RB. Obviously he can play LB too , but from the right was where he commanded the flank and helped his team to the CL , not at LB. Alaba was at LB and frankly enough , he didn't have that much competition from other team's players , even though even if he had , he would still be in the top 3 without a doubt. So , putting Lahm at LB just to fit in Piszczek , is simply unjust to Lahm , to put this way.

I put Lahm at LB because i felt he was better than Alaba, as was Piszczek IMO.

And IMO Gundogan and Martinez were better than Piggy.

Piggy might be important to his teams success sure, but if we picked teams based on this then Ribery should be in every team.

Its just an opinion anyway, no need to take it so seriously.

Gundogan also reached CL final and actually out performed Piggy in the finals again so i dont know how you can say placing gundogan in most CL line ups is a farce

Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:I put Lahm at LB because i felt he was better than Alaba, as was Piszczek IMO.

And IMO Gundogan and Martinez were better than Piggy.

Piggy might be important to his teams success sure, but if we picked teams based on this then Ribery should be in every team.

Its just an opinion anyway, no need to take it so seriously.

no.. not the way you mean it seriously.. just boggles the mind , that's all. Piggy was important to Bayern , most important. That Gundogan made a sprint or a dribble two or more , doesn't mean much in that position , not even basics.

Anyway , since i don't read any strong arguments about why Gundogan should be considered before Piggy , i rest my case for now. As for Lahm i explained , just place the players where they actualy played. Yes both were better at Alaba , but on the other flank Mole.. come on . As you said , it's not just about team success , this is firstly on the individual level. Anyway , like you said , it's an opinion . I already said that i respect what people choose .

Adit wrote:Gundogan also reached CL final and actually out performed Piggy in the finals again so i dont know how you can say placing gundogan in most CL line ups is a farce

Outperformed Piggy in the final ? Why please , explain .I disagree obviously , but never said farce ,i especialy said i respect the decisions made in the first place , so you either argue as you should or gtfo of the discussion if you are going to imply stuff from hereafter.

Piggy was poor in the final IMO.... he didn't effect the game until the last 20 mins when Dortmund tired.

Javi Martinez was much butter and most of the German media said as much.

Gundogan was on top for the best part of the hour but Bender was poor and struggled to maintain his level of performance with his partner failing too.

It wasn't just about dribbling and sprinting either.... he controlled the majority of the game and creating many chances either directly or putting players into dangerous positions.

Sadly for Dortmund those chances were not taken and referee did not do his job in sending off Dante and Ribery.

This game was about small details and luck and the small details went Bayerns way.

Gundogan was much better than Piggy on the night though, i didn't really notice Piggy for the first hour.

In the choice between Gundogan and Schweinsteiger it's 1A and 1B. There really isn't that much between them imo.

We all saw how great Martinez was in the Arsenal return leg. Bayern's midfield is built around Schweinsteiger and without him it falls apart to a degree. On the other hand, when Martinez is missing they don't lose quite as much with Gustavo replacing him. Schweinsteiger is the midfield leader. He connects everything. Martinez better than Schweinsteiger in the CL according to some on here. .

Fuchsteufelswild wrote:We all saw how great Martinez was in the Arsenal return leg. Bayern's midfield is built around Schweinsteiger and without him it falls apart to a degree. On the other hand, when Martinez is missing they don't lose quite as much with Gustavo replacing him. Schweinsteiger is the midfield leader. He connects everything. Martinez better than Schweinsteiger in the CL according to some on here. .

Funny considering most German experts, the people on this thread, & visual observation agree on Javi's importance compared to Schweinsteiger. If you understood football semantics you would understand Schweinsteiger is given a free role in which does not equate to a midfield being built around him. When the midfield WAS built around him in Van Gaal's final year and Jupp's first year, it failed miserably due to Piggy's inability to perform such a role. Javi compliments Piggy vice-versa. When it came to Bundesliga, Schweinsteiger all the way. When it came to CL, Javi's importance was the most important role for the Bavarians. I'm surprised you didn't notice the obvious chances within the European set-up compared to the Bundesliga set-up

When did Arq become Romanian:hmm:

I'm the biggest Schweini fanboy around, and even I can admit he had some very mediocre performances in the last few CL games. Javi was a wall, and kick started a lot of attacks. Schweini really just tried too hard with the Hollywood passes.

He worked his ass off, I'll give you that, but our midfield wasn't as dominant as it had been in past games. Gündogan outplayed him.

Still a world class player, though.

Arquitescu wrote:

Fuchsteufelswild wrote:We all saw how great Martinez was in the Arsenal return leg. Bayern's midfield is built around Schweinsteiger and without him it falls apart to a degree. On the other hand, when Martinez is missing they don't lose quite as much with Gustavo replacing him. Schweinsteiger is the midfield leader. He connects everything. Martinez better than Schweinsteiger in the CL according to some on here. .

Funny considering most German experts, the people on this thread, & visual observation agree on Javi's importance compared to Schweinsteiger. If you understood football semantics you would understand Schweinsteiger is given a free role in which does not equate to a midfield being built around him. When the midfield WAS built around him in Van Gaal's final year and Jupp's first year, it failed miserably due to Piggy's inability to perform such a role. Javi compliments Piggy vice-versa. When it came to Bundesliga, Schweinsteiger all the way. When it came to CL, Javi's importance was the most important role for the Bavarians. I'm surprised you didn't notice the obvious chances within the European set-up compared to the Bundesliga set-up

You have no idea what you're talking about and I doubt you read much German. Everyone in Germany knows that Schweinsteiger is the man in the midfield. It is great built around him and you could see how much they struggled when he got injured last season against Napoli (and then again right after making the comeback). The main difference between this season and last season is the squad depth and the fact that Schweinsteiger isn't plagued by injuries, not that the mighty Javi Martinez was added to the squad. Javi Martinez contributed his part and he's better than Gustavo but to say he's more important than Schweinsteiger in the Champions League is ridiculous. Your forget that they they almost won the Champions League last season with a worse overall squad and Schweinsteiger running around on one ankle.

Convincingly beat Juventus 2-0 without Javi Martinez and dominate the midfield for most of the game. Flop 0-2 against Arsenal without Schweinsteiger. Flop 1-3 against BATE Borisov without Schweinsteiger (Came on in minute 77). Both Champions League losses have come in games without Schweinsteiger. Schweinsteiger is the main reason Bayern's midfield is as strong as it is. The midfield is built around him. Javi Martinez is a complementary piece.

Saying Bayern failed in the last few season because the midfield was built around him (which it still is) is frankly ridiculous when you look at the difference in squad strength and depth. No, no, it was all because Schweinsteiger isn't good enough to have the midfield built around him. Yet they made two Champions League finals with a worse squad.

I rest my case.

Sushi Master wrote:I'm the biggest Schweini fanboy around, and even I can admit he had some very mediocre performances in the last few CL games. Javi was a wall, and kick started a lot of attacks. Schweini really just tried too hard with the Hollywood passes.

He worked his ass off, I'll give you that, but our midfield wasn't as dominant as it had been in past games. Gündogan outplayed him.

Still a world class player, though.

He had a mediocre performance in the final. Then again, one of Dortmund's strategies was to take him out. They were sucessful to a degree. He was great against Arsenal, Juventus, and Barcelona. I didn't see any mediocre performances from him in those games. I don't know what games you were watching.

Fuchsteufelswild wrote:

Arquitescu wrote:

Fuchsteufelswild wrote:We all saw how great Martinez was in the Arsenal return leg. Bayern's midfield is built around Schweinsteiger and without him it falls apart to a degree. On the other hand, when Martinez is missing they don't lose quite as much with Gustavo replacing him. Schweinsteiger is the midfield leader. He connects everything. Martinez better than Schweinsteiger in the CL according to some on here. .

Funny considering most German experts, the people on this thread, & visual observation agree on Javi's importance compared to Schweinsteiger. If you understood football semantics you would understand Schweinsteiger is given a free role in which does not equate to a midfield being built around him. When the midfield WAS built around him in Van Gaal's final year and Jupp's first year, it failed miserably due to Piggy's inability to perform such a role. Javi compliments Piggy vice-versa. When it came to Bundesliga, Schweinsteiger all the way. When it came to CL, Javi's importance was the most important role for the Bavarians. I'm surprised you didn't notice the obvious chances within the European set-up compared to the Bundesliga set-up

You have no idea what you're talking about and I doubt you read much German. Everyone in Germany knows that Schweinsteiger is the man in the midfield. It is great built around him and you could see how much they struggled when he got injured last season against Napoli (and then again right after making the comeback). The main difference between this season and last season is the squad depth and the fact that Schweinsteiger isn't plagued by injuries, not that the mighty Javi Martinez was added to the squad. Javi Martinez contributed his part and he's better than Gustavo but to say he's more important than Schweinsteiger in the Champions League is ridiculous. Your forget that they they almost won the Champions League last season with a worse overall squad and Schweinsteiger running around on one ankle.

Quite a baseless comment to say everyone in Germany thinks Schweinsteiger is the "man in the midfield" whereas all he really has turned into under Heynkes is a utility player who serves the midfield system to a degree, and thats where it ends.

When Schweinsteiger wasn't injured last season, he was above average at best. Why? Osram severely overestimated his capabilities in attempting to build the midfield around him, this year the sole reason he bought Javi was to:

-Compliment Schweinsteiger, cover his for his obvious positional indiscipline, & hold the midfield literally all by himself.

Schweinsteiger's part in UCL last year was merely incidental and based on brilliant individual performances by the likes of Ribery, Gomez, Mueller, & Kroos. Where was he versus Real Madrid ties? A tie based solely on wide attacks since the central midfield couldn't put their foot in to dominate despite Schweinsteiger being afforded miles of space.

Where was he in the CL final v Chelsea? He provided a decent platform for their counterattacks yet outshone by Kroos, Tymo & a deep dropping Mueller once again.

I'm surprised you haven't figured how his role has substantially changed this year and it does not include the role of Javi alongside him. Freedom for him has been given yet nowhere near built around him as it was under Van Gaal.

Schweinsteiger's absence v Arsenal? You mean the tie Bayern took one foot of the gas resulting in their utter complacency? Juventus with their worst possible tactical set-up? Even provincial Italian teams have dominated Juventus when they field their infamous deep set-up. Where was he v Barca when Javi was busy nullifying thier whole attack? Where was he v Dortmund? Busy being outplayed by a 22 year old Guedogan while Javi continually shored the midfield and provided rapid snap passes to wide marks and saving Bayern from a massive headache when Piggy decided to play houdini.

Javi is the positional reference in the midfield within CL, which means he is the anchor, the fulcrum, and the bypass to which defence transcends into attack. Schweinsteiger has the free role, which cannot equate to having a midfield built around him. Its just simple semantics and does not reflect on a players ability.

Causation doesn't equal correlation. Your attempts at coincidental are misfiring and frankly plain silly.

Schweinsteiger was immense within the Bundesliga, yet compared to Javi or just Bayern's standards as a whole, he fell severely short of the hype he received pre-matches, as to put it lightly.

I know you want to think Schweinsteiger is your new Effenberg or Ballack as the midfield dynamo yet in Europe he is purely a tactical utility since he fell vast short of expectations last year in his choke jobs. Nonetheless, his importance cannot be understated, just cannot compare with Martinez' performances in Europe. Debating otherwise is just laughable.

Arquitescu

Y u no make it Arqscardelli

juveman17 wrote:Arquitescu

Y u no make it Arqscardelli

MOSCAR IL MAGIO Technique of God

I had a bet with Vlad on Milan's 3rd spot and lost the bet. Vlad had me reveal my true identity on this thread

http://www.goallegacy.net/t16224p342-official-nickname-changes-thread

lmfao your Romanian now

Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:Piggy was poor in the final IMO.... he didn't effect the game until the last 20 mins when Dortmund tired.

Javi Martinez was much butter and most of the German media said as much.

Gundogan was on top for the best part of the hour but Bender was poor and struggled to maintain his level of performance with his partner failing too.

It wasn't just about dribbling and sprinting either.... he controlled the majority of the game and creating many chances either directly or putting players into dangerous positions.

Sadly for Dortmund those chances were not taken and referee did not do his job in sending off Dante and Ribery.

This game was about small details and luck and the small details went Bayerns way.

Gundogan was much better than Piggy on the night though, i didn't really notice Piggy for the first hour.

Poor final is a heavy word. One has a poor final when he does all sorts of things wrong , not when Dortmund attacks for an hour and the whole team is under attack. Dortmund had Bayern for the best of the hour , it's only normal you didn't notice Piggy before Gundogan who basicaly , i never said anything against him really.. I saw the game as well , he had a great final.

I have to concede about who had the better final. Whilst i reiterate again that just because Dortmund gone wild and gave everything to win the final as soon as possible , i can't see how he had a bad game. Both of Piggy and Javi had to take that step back and defend . I'll give you that they didn't cope sp very well untill Dortmund took a dip in pace and intensity , fact . Still though , under all that pressure and intensity , Schweinsteiger didn't commit any important errors . He defended mostly and tried to cover up space but when Bayern got on their feet next half , he didn't have a poor/mediocre game by any means either.. just his job was easier from herafter since Dortmund couldn't keep up. Gundogan , whilst being surprisingly good defensively and very able to react against counter attacks , wasn't able to sustain Bayern's fluid game when the ball came his area , well at least most of the time.

In the end , whilst i don't have any issue agreeing with the majority about Gundogan in the final , it will be very difficult to justify how Gundogan outperformed Piggy during the rest of the competition . Fuchsteufelswild offered some facts and examples that are easily granted if anyone did happen to watch Bayern especialy this season , more than once. I'm quite confident the German media like you said , will have given attention to how important Schweinsteiger has been , even though i can't say i follow any of them.

Zealous wrote:In the choice between Gundogan and Schweinsteiger it's 1A and 1B. There really isn't that much between them imo.

Of course , the gap between their overall performance in the CL wasn't anything that huge. What i am arguing about is Schweinsteiger had the better overall campaign of the two . Both in terms of performances and importance for their respective teams. Again , i can see why many choose him , though i guess another reason might be Bayern has had many good performances from different players in the CL , they might have overlooked Bastian to a degree , for Gundogan who frankly has been like Bastian , vital to his team game.

Sushi Master wrote:I'm the biggest Schweini fanboy around, and even I can admit he had some very mediocre performances in the last few CL games. Javi was a wall, and kick started a lot of attacks. Schweini really just tried too hard with the Hollywood passes.

He worked his ass off, I'll give you that, but our midfield wasn't as dominant as it had been in past games. Gündogan outplayed him.

Still a world class player, though.

His last few games mediocre? a 7-0 aggregate against Barcelona , do you honestly believe it can be achieved with a player in Schweinsteiger's position having mediocre performances? I can't take that seriously. With the rest of your post i can agree , though the Hollywood passes you claim , are a basic when one plays that position. Every great midfielder attempts those , doesn't matter how simply they play most of the time. From Lampard to Xavi and Scholes , Gerrard , Montolivo , Ballack and Veron ages ago e.t.c . it's part of the role really . Not every single one is going to be neat , but that doesn't change the fact ; from doing the job , to over doing it .

But mediocre , i was very suprised to read as such tbh with you. He did handle all 3 games without costing his team anything and against Barcelona , well , 7-0 aggregate doesn't happen like that , none could have a mediocre performance . Barcelona's game is all dominance from the midfield and up and when Barcelona is failing to play their game , you must agree that the pivot did more than it's job , thus making mediocre wrong. Even under pressure Piggy was almost flawless. I can recall some mistakes here and there in camp nou , but it wasn't anything big truth be told. Minor mistakes . Best performance in the Camp Nou since years, with a player in the pivot having mediocre performance cannot be possibly achieved really. As about the final , i already gave my view .