Re: 2013-14 'Blue-Print'- Discussion of Transfers, Tactical Changes etc.

by Khaled Wed Jul 17, 2013 12:57 pm

Hawky wrote:OK things have changed and I would like to express my opinion on how this season might actually be saved.

Tactics:
- pressing! If we can't press like we did before, switch to a deeper back line
- more balanced wings - I fear we could be raped on the left with both Alba and Neymar, but Brasil coped pretty well in the Confederations Cup with Marcelo and Neymar so maybe it's not so bad.
- switch to a 4-2-3-1 when in advantage by placing Song or Mascherano near Busquets and playing Fabregas behind Messi. Iniesta or Neymar on the left.

Players:
GK: New keeper (ter Stegen, why aren't we linked anymore???), Pinto ; sell Valdes and use the money for the new keeper - imagine how the fans will react if he starts making blunders, everyone will say that he isn't focused on Barca anymore etc.

RB: Alves, Montoya - it's OK
CB: New CB (Sakho), Pique, Puyol, Bartra, Mascherano
LB: Alba, Adriano

DM: Busquets, Song, Mascherano
CM: Xavi, Song, new CM (Herrera?)
AM: Iniesta, Fabregas, Sergi Roberto

LW: Neymar, Tello
CF: Messi, Fabregas, Sanchez
RW: Sachez, Pedro, Cuenca (if he stays)

To sum up:
sell - Valdes (10-15 M?)
buy - Sakho (20M?), ter Stegen (15 M), Herrera (15 M?)

I personally believe buying a CM is a priority now because we really need someone who can bring competition to Xavi and Iniesta. With the sale of Thiago and the reported money we had for a CB (30 M) we should be more than able to cover up these transfers, even if we keep Valdes.

Speaking about "making blunders" and you want to Valdes with ter stegane... Really? Very Happy

Valdes is staying, Rosell confirmed it.

- CB (not sure about Sakho)... Actually, I'm only sure about Thiago Silva (not gonna happen)
- CM? We should buy Oliver Torres (using part of the 25M we have from selling Thiago).

Looking forward to see Sergi Samper with 1st team, he'll probably available in 1st 3 games of preseason (including game vs Bayern)

agree with you on the remaining parts...

by Ganso Fri Jul 26, 2013 12:49 am

by free_cat Fri Jul 26, 2013 8:53 am

danyjr wrote:
The Sanchez wrote:
danyjr wrote:He is on loan at Celta de Vigo.

Which reminds me, Barcelona B are going down to third division next season.

Why?? They have the capability to easily get enough points to get past relegation. Need a better coach still...

Half of 2012-13 Barça B are already gone on loan/sold, especially the better players (Deulofeu, Rafinha, Araujo etc.). Last season you were already much weaker than the team of 2011-12. Comes January and Barça B will be battling relegation.

Danyjr says the same every year. Poor man doesn't know anything about our youth ranks. He just considers the players that are gone, and doesn't consider the quality players that come either signed and through the Juvenil. Mainly Sandro, Babunski, Bagnack and Samper, who are all quality and can have an instant impact on the B and in Segunda.
I agree that the team has not the talent of last year, but we should be able to stay in segunda with a couple more signings.

by danyjr Fri Jul 26, 2013 6:53 pm

free_cat wrote:Danyjr says the same every year. Poor man doesn't know anything about our youth ranks. He just considers the players that are gone, and doesn't consider the quality players that come either signed and through the Juvenil. Mainly Sandro, Babunski, Bagnack and Samper, who are all quality and can have an instant impact on the B and in Segunda.
I agree that the team has not the talent of last year, but we should be able to stay in segunda with a couple more signings.

Actually I said last year that you'll finish below Castilla. And look what happened :coffee:

by free_cat Fri Jul 26, 2013 10:25 pm

I never talked about who would finish above but who had a better b team, and it we easily showed to be the best team avoiding relegation with 10 games to go while Madrid was struggling and had to recall two promoted players like nacho and morata to avoid relegation.
While you said they were a better b team. Very Happy

by danyjr Fri Jul 26, 2013 11:04 pm

Barcelona having a better B team than Madrid is your opinion my friend. And I still disagree. Looking at their newly promoted players, Jesé and Morata are destined to surpass the likes of Tello and Deulofeu while Casemiro, Nacho and Cheryshev's futures seem much brighter than Dongou, Planas etc.

by Khaled Sat Jul 27, 2013 1:31 am

danyjr wrote:Barcelona having a better B team than Madrid is your opinion my friend. And I still disagree. Looking at their newly promoted players, Jesé and Morata are destined to surpass the likes of Tello and Deulofeu while Casemiro, Nacho and Cheryshev's futures seem much brighter than Dongou, Planas etc.

Casemiro (21) joined RM B only few months ago, he's not a youth product.
No one said that Planas is going to make it to 1st team, Dongou just turned 18...

Grimaldo, Gomez, Idgar, Samper, Espinosa, Sandro, Dongou, Adama are the promising players...

Sergi Roberto, Rafinha (loan), Deulofeu (loan) already promoted!

by free_cat Sat Jul 27, 2013 1:47 am

Morata was theoretically promoted last season, so he shouldn't even feature in the comparison or we should consider Bartra, Montoya, Dos Santos or Tello for us.
Someone objective would say that Deulofeu and Jese are close prospects, but no one except some hater would say Jesse will be much better than deulofeu. there's no basis to say that. So far Deulofeu has been on par with Jesse at everything and he is a year younger.

by messixaviesta Sat Jul 27, 2013 5:22 pm

Ganso wrote:

Great image. Thanks for posting. I have heard Oier will get number 25. Also Afellay and Cuenca could remain with us but not sure what numbers they will get. Cuenca could retain 23 but it seems Afellay's 20 is going to Tello.

by messixaviesta Sat Jul 27, 2013 7:10 pm

One question to all. If indeed we implement more and more of what are being termed the vertical tactics of Tata, will that help Fabregas to shine out more?

by barcaholic Sat Jul 27, 2013 8:20 pm

messixaviesta wrote:One question to all. If indeed we implement more and more of what are being termed the vertical tactics of Tata, will that help Fabregas to shine out more?

I would say yes. I didn't see a martino side play before (except Paraguay in WC 2010 which is irrelevant) but i've seen Bielsa's teams a lot and i think fabregas will thrive in the more direct vertical football system of Bielsa.

by messixaviesta Sat Jul 27, 2013 9:40 pm

Inter had lost the Uefa Super Cup of 2010 to Atletico. Bayern just lost the German Super Cup to Dortmund. So the hextuple remains uniquely ours in many years. cheers

by The Franchise Sat Jul 27, 2013 10:01 pm

messixaviesta wrote:One question to all. If indeed we implement more and more of what are being termed the vertical tactics of Tata, will that help Fabregas to shine out more?

I think so. But...what do tactics matter if you do the 3 bad things he does on a consistent basis.

1. Allows himself to be marked by standing in poor positions to receive the ball and doesnt seem to understand what movement will free him up.

2. Being slow. Be it running, turning and making decisions. His most annoying and fatal flaw for me.

3. Has no idea how to press and even if he did, seems to make half hearted efforts to tackle or give chase.

Only number 3 I have real hope of him improving with better tactical instructions.

Maybe in a more vertical game his runs can be better served and if we play at a higher speed and arrive at goal quicker, in theory there may be more space in behind. He is a better passer in these situations than the congested ones.

However, if we are playing vertically and with higher speed, you would imagine there may be more situations where he needs to turn and explode into space..something he is awful at..truly awful.

by The Sanchez Sat Jul 27, 2013 11:25 pm

So Alves will be wearing the No.22 jersey, Montoya the No.2, Song the No.17, Pedro the No.7, Neymar the No.11

by BarrileteCosmico Sat Jul 27, 2013 11:52 pm

On the subject of numbers, anyone know why for Barca xavi and iniesta wear the 6 and 8 respectively yet they switch it up for the NT?

by The Sanchez Sun Jul 28, 2013 2:33 am

Congrats BC with the moderator promotion! You fully deserve it all and hope you will be a guide to all posters on this section!

by neuro11 Sun Jul 28, 2013 7:31 am

The Franchise wrote:
messixaviesta wrote:One question to all. If indeed we implement more and more of what are being termed the vertical tactics of Tata, will that help Fabregas to shine out more?

I think so. But...what do tactics matter if you do the 3 bad things he does on a consistent basis.

1. Allows himself to be marked by standing in poor positions to receive the ball and doesnt seem to understand what movement will free him up.

2. Being slow. Be it running, turning and making decisions. His most annoying and fatal flaw for me.

3. Has no idea how to press and even if he did, seems to make half hearted efforts to tackle or give chase.

Only number 3 I have real hope of him improving with better tactical instructions.

Maybe in a more vertical game his runs can be better served and if we play at a higher speed and arrive at goal quicker, in theory there may be more space in behind. He is a better passer in these situations than the congested ones.

However, if we are playing vertically and with higher speed, you would imagine there may be more situations where he needs to turn and explode into space..something he is awful at..truly awful.

well said, but first 2 had never been a problem for him back in Arsenal days as far as i can remember. So whats going on wrong now, you think...

by neuro11 Sun Jul 28, 2013 7:33 am

messixaviesta wrote:Inter had lost the Uefa Super Cup of 2010 to Atletico. Bayern just lost the German Super Cup to Dortmund. So the hextuple remains uniquely ours in many years.

Thats OURS to break :coffee:

by messixaviesta Sun Jul 28, 2013 1:19 pm

The Franchise wrote:
messixaviesta wrote:One question to all. If indeed we implement more and more of what are being termed the vertical tactics of Tata, will that help Fabregas to shine out more?

I think so. But...what do tactics matter if you do the 3 bad things he does on a consistent basis.

1. Allows himself to be marked by standing in poor positions to receive the ball and doesnt seem to understand what movement will free him up.

2. Being slow. Be it running, turning and making decisions. His most annoying and fatal flaw for me.

3. Has no idea how to press and even if he did, seems to make half hearted efforts to tackle or give chase.

Only number 3 I have real hope of him improving with better tactical instructions.

Maybe in a more vertical game his runs can be better served and if we play at a higher speed and arrive at goal quicker, in theory there may be more space in behind. He is a better passer in these situations than the congested ones.

However, if we are playing vertically and with higher speed, you would imagine there may be more situations where he needs to turn and explode into space..something he is awful at..truly awful.

Excellent comments dani. Enjoyed reading every word. Why I thought vertical tactics may help him is that I have seen in our conventional tiki taka his game suffers because he has not been able to develop his off the ball movement and tactical qualities. Instead if he is given more of a one track role whereby he needs to basically always try to move forward and closer to goal that could help him. However as you say some of the problems will still remain.

by messixaviesta Sun Jul 28, 2013 1:23 pm

BarrileteCosmico wrote:On the subject of numbers, anyone know why for Barca xavi and iniesta wear the 6 and 8 respectively yet they switch it up for the NT?

alfred, this question had intrigued me for a long time. Later someone asked this on Twitter and Graham Hunter gave the reply. It's actually quite simple. When these guys were growing in their careers in both teams they took the numbers best suited to their position among the available numbers. I guess the only tidbit left to find out is who wore the 6 for Spain due to which Xavi had to take the 8 then.

by messixaviesta Sun Jul 28, 2013 1:25 pm

The Sanchez wrote:Congrats BC with the moderator promotion! You fully deserve it all and hope you will be a guide to all posters on this section!

I wholeheartedly second these thoughts. There are very few posters who post such wonderful comments so consistently and also conduct themselves with so much class all the time. alfred is nothing less than a role model. Many congrats.

by messixaviesta Sun Jul 28, 2013 1:32 pm

neuro11 wrote:
The Franchise wrote:
messixaviesta wrote:One question to all. If indeed we implement more and more of what are being termed the vertical tactics of Tata, will that help Fabregas to shine out more?

I think so. But...what do tactics matter if you do the 3 bad things he does on a consistent basis.

1. Allows himself to be marked by standing in poor positions to receive the ball and doesnt seem to understand what movement will free him up.

2. Being slow. Be it running, turning and making decisions. His most annoying and fatal flaw for me.

3. Has no idea how to press and even if he did, seems to make half hearted efforts to tackle or give chase.

Only number 3 I have real hope of him improving with better tactical instructions.

Maybe in a more vertical game his runs can be better served and if we play at a higher speed and arrive at goal quicker, in theory there may be more space in behind. He is a better passer in these situations than the congested ones.

However, if we are playing vertically and with higher speed, you would imagine there may be more situations where he needs to turn and explode into space..something he is awful at..truly awful.

well said, but first 2 had never been a problem for him back in Arsenal days as far as i can remember. So whats going on wrong now, you think...

Good question. Even in his Arsenal days how often did he perform brilliantly in the biggest of matches against the toughest of opponents? From what I can remember his best days in this respect were in his earliest years as a regular starter and I daresay he was a better player then. dani and I have discussed this before. It seems his obsession with goal scoring and playing as the number 10 made him overlook some of the other midfielder qualities he had at the start of his career when he really did seem like a future Xavi in the making so to say. Watch some of his matches between 2005 and 2008 when he used to play deeper in midfield and I guess he would exhibit some qualities we don't see in him nowadays. When he signed with us I had some hope he would rediscover some of those qualities but now it seems unlikely.

by The Franchise Sun Jul 28, 2013 1:57 pm

Agree. I also think an important part is at Arsenal he played every week, he was the part the team functioned around and also everyone relied on him to lead the team with his play. These things give you more responsibility and confidence, plus his role was easier in terms of movement. Everyone moved around him, now he has to make movement.

by neuro11 Sun Jul 28, 2013 3:17 pm

messixaviesta wrote:
neuro11 wrote:
The Franchise wrote:

I think so. But...what do tactics matter if you do the 3 bad things he does on a consistent basis.

1. Allows himself to be marked by standing in poor positions to receive the ball and doesnt seem to understand what movement will free him up.

2. Being slow. Be it running, turning and making decisions. His most annoying and fatal flaw for me.

3. Has no idea how to press and even if he did, seems to make half hearted efforts to tackle or give chase.

Only number 3 I have real hope of him improving with better tactical instructions.

Maybe in a more vertical game his runs can be better served and if we play at a higher speed and arrive at goal quicker, in theory there may be more space in behind. He is a better passer in these situations than the congested ones.

However, if we are playing vertically and with higher speed, you would imagine there may be more situations where he needs to turn and explode into space..something he is awful at..truly awful.

well said, but first 2 had never been a problem for him back in Arsenal days as far as i can remember. So whats going on wrong now, you think...

Good question. Even in his Arsenal days how often did he perform brilliantly in the biggest of matches against the toughest of opponents? From what I can remember his best days in this respect were in his earliest years as a regular starter and I daresay he was a better player then. dani and I have discussed this before. It seems his obsession with goal scoring and playing as the number 10 made him overlook some of the other midfielder qualities he had at the start of his career when he really did seem like a future Xavi in the making so to say. Watch some of his matches between 2005 and 2008 when he used to play deeper in midfield and I guess he would exhibit some qualities we don't see in him nowadays. When he signed with us I had some hope he would rediscover some of those qualities but now it seems unlikely.

very good point.....even with such disappointing appearance with us,he has scored more goals in 2 seasons than any of his 2 seasons in Arsenal days

by neuro11 Sun Jul 28, 2013 3:20 pm

The Franchise wrote:Agree. I also think an important part is at Arsenal he played every week, he was the part the team functioned around and also everyone relied on him to lead the team with his play. These things give you more responsibility and confidence, plus his role was easier in terms of movement. Everyone moved around him, now he has to make movement.

yeah, thats another point we agree...and clearly evident in some games when Messi is absent. Probably thats the big mistake by Pep that he could not read it...

by messixaviesta Sun Jul 28, 2013 4:25 pm

neuro11 wrote:
The Franchise wrote:Agree. I also think an important part is at Arsenal he played every week, he was the part the team functioned around and also everyone relied on him to lead the team with his play. These things give you more responsibility and confidence, plus his role was easier in terms of movement. Everyone moved around him, now he has to make movement.

yeah, thats another point we agree...and clearly evident in some games when Messi is absent. Probably thats the big mistake by Pep that he could not read it...

Indeed a very key point brought out by dani. It's like with Messi for us. He doesn't bother much about off the ball movement because others move around him and play for him. When Ibrahimovic joined us he had a similar problem because he was used to being in a team where everyone did for him what our players do for Messi. Perhaps after having been the MVP of a team it's very difficult to play second fiddle and only very few players will succeed at that.

As for the "mistake" by Pep this is where we tread into a grey area. I would like to know better what fraction of Pep's decision was logical and what fraction was emotional but it's unlikely we will ever get to know what really happened.

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