OFFICIAL TACTICAL DISCUSSION THREAD

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Post by Vibe Thu Sep 01, 2011 10:39 am

OFFICIAL TACTICAL DISCUSSION THREAD AbA9dN4aiN

I would jizz if we tried this 4-3-3

What I think Gasperini will play...

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He will fail and go to my formation.What's your take?
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Post by Swanhends Thu Sep 01, 2011 1:57 pm

I highly doubt he will play a flat 343, but we'll see: Here's a copy of my post from the previous tactics thread:

bhends wrote:I've got the day off tomorrow so I just decided to re-watch the supercoppa - gonna write a short piece on my thoughts

First Half: The good

Many people were very scared of how the 3 man defense would fare for Inter, but it worked about as well as one could hope for in the first half. We've seen how successful the 3 man defense can be in Serie A with Napoli and Udinese last year...Napoli, for all their good qualities, is a team that probably did not have the talent to deserve finishing in 3rd place in the league last year, but their use of a 3 man backline was a tactically brilliant way to counter all the 4312's we see in Serie A...Here's a basic view of how the two systems match up, using the lineups from the milan game

OFFICIAL TACTICAL DISCUSSION THREAD 34qtmhs

There's the basic matchup between the two systems...Notice how this setup sees Inter with a 3v2 advantage at the back, and a 5v4 advantage in the midfield....Crucially, In this matchup the team playing the 4312 is utterly unable to properly deal with the wing backs of the opposing team - This leads to the type of situation in which Obi found himself in the first half of the supercoppa. Why was Obi able to get the best of Abate in the game? He didn't manage to transform into the new messi overnight, and Abate isn't a talentless player (well, not completely, anyway :coffee:)...The reason Obi caused Milan so many problems was because this tactical matchup placed Abate in a very uncomfortable situation. Take the following scenario - the ball has passed across the midfield from Zanetti to Obi by way of Motta

OFFICIAL TACTICAL DISCUSSION THREAD 1312935882659562

Obi receives the ball with meters and meters of space in front of him (between him an Abate) now as a fullback, Abate can't just let Obi have free time on the ball, so he has to come out to meet him - however since Obi received the ball in such space, it becomes a situation where Obi is running with pace directly at Abate, who is coming right at him....This is a situation that ALWAYS favors the attacker (Its basically the same situation that caused Maicons thorough demolition at the hands of Bale)...The defender is isolated and being run directly at, not a situation any defender wants to find himself in...The right sided midfielder for the other team (in this case Gattuso) is behind the play and unable to provide quick help. The right sided centerback is also in a poor position - as Eto'o makes his run directly into the space Abate has vacated, the centerback cannot follow him very far, otherwise sneijder will be running free to goal - Eto'o drifting wide provides the wingback with an additional (possibly 1-2) passing option (if he hasn't already beaten the defender 1v1)....

Second Half: The bad

Now contrast this situation, which we were presented with in the first half, with the situation we found ourselves in during the second half:

Many people have been calling for the 4231 as the formation Inter need to use...But there are many problems with the 4231....First, the 4231 matches up quite poorly against the 4312 (which everyone and their mothers use in Serie A) - This diagram by Zonal Marking from last years Milan Derby illustrates the problem better than I ever could....The second half of the SuperCoppa was basically an extenuation of last years Milan Derby...a horrible tactical matchup between formations essentially handcuffed our team offensively and put extreme pressure on our defense, as you can see:

OFFICIAL TACTICAL DISCUSSION THREAD NJTqn

In this matchup unlike with the 3 man defense, we have a surplus of defenders along the back line (4 vs 2) and we are outnumbered in the center of midfield (4 vs 3)...Now while we have two attacking wingers in advanced areas, they are in positions that are favorable for the fullbacks to defend. In the 4231 vs 4312 matchup we have the exact opposite scenario as we had with the 3 man defense...Instead of Obi picking up the ball in oceans of space and being able to run directly at Abate (who is badly isolated from his teammates) now Samuel Eto'o picks up the ball immediately in front of Abate, and is unable to run at him with pace. In this scenario, Eto'o has probably less than 10 seconds to beat Abate before Gattuso arrives to double team him, and even if he skips past Abate with ease almost immediately...He only reward will be Nesta closing right down on top of him, since in this scenario Nesta does not have to worry about the striker running in behind him, since there is no space to exploit in the first place

The difference (imo, of course) in the halves of the supercoppa was in the types of positions our players found themselves in...In the first half we were able to get the ball to offensive players (either alvarez or obi) in very favorable positions where we placed Milan in uncomfortable situations....In the second half, the situations were flipped...Milan were defending against a situation they were very comfortable against, while our players were being placed in tough situations and basically being asked to pull magic out of their ass



Anyway, thats my slightly more than .02 cents about the supercoppa...Depending on how much time I have I'll try to do something similar to this for any interesting tactical matchups we find ourselves in...Personally I am extremely excited with the way Gasp's 3 man backline will match up against the all the 4312 teams of the league



Last edited by bhends on Thu Sep 01, 2011 2:00 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Post by Swanhends Thu Sep 01, 2011 1:59 pm

On the subject of Nagatomo/Pazzini:

bhends wrote:
InterMalia wrote:Nagatomo is our fastest player right? He'll also thrive in this system.

Not only is he one of our fastest players, we saw a couple time last year that he has an absolute cracker of a shot

And even though he plays as a left back for us, he is still naturally a right footed player...So he is going to want to come inside on to his strong foot to both link up and shoot (in typical inverted wide-player fashion), so we will likely wind up with a reverse overlap situation on the left hand side...

OFFICIAL TACTICAL DISCUSSION THREAD 1312989967155944

Nagatomo - Our widest player cutting inside to his stronger foot from the left hand wing, and Alvarez, our left center midfielder making an outside overlap around the wingback on to his natural foot in his favored position....

What is an isolated fullback supposed to do against that? Does he follow Nagatomo inside and leave Alvarez completely free on the overlap? Does he follow Alvarez and pass Nagatomo off to Player XXX? If he does than Sneijder is open a mere 22 yards from goal (not to mention Sneijder/Nagatomo would be 2v1 vs the last midfielder)

Its a cliche that football is a simple game...but its also true - if you can outnumber your opponent in crucial areas of the field that puts you at a great advantage

Pazzini should find himself in a situation where he is receiving crosses from both Maicon on the right and Alvarez on the left, each coming on their strong foot in plenty of space....Thats potential feeding frenzy territory

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Post by Swanhends Thu Sep 01, 2011 2:14 pm

There are a ton of options we've got in front of us...I'd like either a 3412, 3421, or 3511

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That formation is either a 3412 or a 3421 depending on how Forlan plays

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I can't imagine there will be space for any of Alvarez/Coutinho/Castaignos on the field as things stand...

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Post by Vibe Thu Sep 01, 2011 2:20 pm

Why Forlan behind Milito with Sneijder?
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Post by Swanhends Thu Sep 01, 2011 2:22 pm

Well I would prefer to start Pazzini rather than Milito

Also Forlan closer to the striker than Sneijder because Forlan is a goal threat in open play...Sneijder isn't, really
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Post by Vibe Thu Sep 01, 2011 2:27 pm

Yeah I meant Pazzini don't know why I wrote Milito,pic clearly says Pazzo.

I'd rather have Forlan on the left cutting in,he has a great cross curling in and a good shot.

Sneijder
Pazzini - Forlan

I think 1 striker won't be an option,considering we have 4 who will need to play games + Casta.
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Post by InterMalia Thu Sep 01, 2011 4:09 pm

Now that Gasp has more versatile players upfront than he had in Beijing, i believe the 3 4 3 will click for us. Think about if we had Zarate in the second half there, how many times did Alvarez get past Zambrotta? Imagine had it been Zarate instead of slow Ricky? I can't wait for the season to get started tbh, i'm excited!
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Post by Swanhends Thu Sep 01, 2011 4:29 pm

Good point, I definitely think the future of Alvarez lies at LCM or CAM, not LW
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Post by InterMalia Thu Sep 01, 2011 4:36 pm

He was a boss as a LCM. I think he will fit in there very well. We have wingers in Obi, Zarate and Tinho. If needed to Yuto/Maicon can also play there. Only problem i have with the system is Gasp confusing players by playing them in several different positions in a single game. Total football takes years to build for gods sake. But he keeps on insisting (in preseason anyways) on his way, like Rafa use to..
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Post by Internal Thu Sep 01, 2011 5:31 pm

OFFICIAL TACTICAL DISCUSSION THREAD 211054_F_C__Internazionale
3-4-1-2

probably our starting lineup on sunday (11th), although i'd like to fit zarate in there, i think it would leave us exposed. it might be better to ease alvarez into the lineup rather than throw him into the starting XI week 1.

OFFICIAL TACTICAL DISCUSSION THREAD 211066_F_C__Internazionale
3-4-3

again, i'd like to think this would work, but i feel we'd be frail on defense. unless we play like barcelona Thumbs up
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