The same motive for anti-US 'terrorism' is cited over and over

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The same motive for anti-US 'terrorism' is cited over and over - Page 2 Empty Re: The same motive for anti-US 'terrorism' is cited over and over

Post by El Chelsea Fuerte Thu Mar 06, 2014 5:09 pm

It's only human to find fault in others while making excuses for yourself. So whenever we criticize anyone for anything, we are being hypocrites because we too make mistakes on a daily basis or have done so in the past. In addition, while it is easy to sit here and criticize U.S. foreign policymakers for making the self-interested decisions they do (such as Bush deciding it's best to invade Iraq for reasons not stated in public), I'm aware that most people who make such criticisms (including me) would have made those same decisions as they did if we were in the same position because of whatever benefits are yielded to the USA. However, this does not mean that since every person is basically inherently evil (as I see it), that we cannot critique other people's actions or form opinions about others' actions. The power to critique is especially important if you live in a place where most people buy into whatever is presented to them without questioning it first, as listening to people with other opinions would hopefully make them critical thinkers as well.

So yes, every nation makes self-interested decisions even those who are victims of other nations' self-interested decisions.

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Post by RedOranje Thu Mar 06, 2014 8:18 pm

I am certainly NOT suggesting that we should simply ignore mistakes, lies, and faults. I am, however, advocating a bit more self-awareness from those that continually rail on certain issues while conveniently ignoring others. Perspective is necessary.

Also, I don't believe it's an inherent part of human nature to be hypocritical or evil. We can and should work to rise above and and raise society with us.
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Post by Highburied Thu Mar 06, 2014 10:31 pm

The United States is not having a good time internationally.

Today is all about making a group of people hate you and you are done , no matter how good you are.

This strategy is being applied by the enemies of USA around the world.

My personal opinion is...

In this world, you will either get fuked by Americans, Russians or Chinnese . Id rather let USA fuk me because they kinda doing it better than the others.

If anyone thinks the world will be in peace without USA is very Naive. (Check history when was the world free from a big domination).

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Post by El Chelsea Fuerte Thu Mar 06, 2014 11:14 pm

RedOranje wrote:I am certainly NOT suggesting that we should simply ignore mistakes, lies, and faults.  I am, however, advocating a bit more self-awareness from those that continually rail on certain issues while conveniently ignoring others.  Perspective is necessary.

Also, I don't believe it's an inherent part of human nature to be hypocritical or evil.  We can and should work to rise above and and raise society with us.

It's human nature to make self-interested decisions because a single person has control only over his/her own consciousness. Altruism is definitely not the norm as when in danger everyone looks after himself or herself. Yes, humans have the mental capacity to do good for others, but one's actions are more often than not going to be focused on improving his or her own welfare. If humans were not designed to be self-serving then we would be involved in much fewer conflicts (and thus we won't need to call out hypocritical foreign policy! :coffee:). Same goes to every other creature on Earth.

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Post by RedOranje Thu Mar 06, 2014 11:31 pm

"The Norm" and "Human Nature" are two very different concepts. One is simply a commentary/qualification of the common current practice. The other is a suggestion of inherent and fundamental (and therefore eternal) aspects that shape and drive humans and their actions.

Self-interest certainly is "the norm" but I don't for a second accept the notion that it is an inherent, irrefutable characteristic of humans. Nor do I believe that "in danger everyone looks after himself or herself [first and foremost]." Definitely, most people will look to their own safety and well being when in danger but not necessarily before or at the detriment to others.
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Post by Il Diavolo Fri Mar 07, 2014 3:36 am

RedOranje wrote:If anyone says any country or corporation or organization (even charity organizations, to an extent) does anything for any reason other than their own interests "then that's just wrong. Period."


The entire basis of modern international relations is self-interest and self-security.


There's a certain irony in calling the US out on its hypocrisy as those making the calls pretend the same doesn't apply to them/their nations and are therefore hypocrites as well...  

Which is not to say that US policy has not been and is not still hypocritical or flawed or self-serving.  All of those are definitely true.  It's just the same for every single other nation and group world wide as well.

I agree with that, but the difference between the US and other nations/organizations, is that they are rarely in a position of power close to what the US is in and so their hypocrisy has affects on a much broader scale. Sure, you can say we are all hypocrites and at the end of the day, it's every man for themselves, but then how do we move forward and progress, cause if that's the situation, then there's no getting out of it.

One of the very important keys to progress is highlighting the faults of those in power (and those in power will always have faults) and then trying to fix them. And then there is also the very important aspect of empowering people and educating them. Take Snowden, for example, does exposing the NSA make him a hypocrite? I don't know, maybe. Did he do the world a huge service though? Yeah (in my opinion).
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Post by RedOranje Fri Mar 07, 2014 3:48 am

Except that other states and actors with similar power acting in similar ways aren't criticized to the same degree or in the same vein as the United States. THAT'S where the complaints about hypocrisy become hypocritical.
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Post by Il Diavolo Fri Mar 07, 2014 5:25 am

RedOranje wrote:Except that other states and actors with similar power acting in similar ways aren't criticized to the same degree or in the same vein as the United States.  THAT'S where the complaints about hypocrisy become hypocritical.

Yes, other groups are not criticized in a similar manner. I agree with that. But I think the reason for that is that is again the fact that the US is the most powerful country in the world right now. They have their military spread all over the globe, (South Korea, Cuba, Afganistan, Iraq) and they literally have their foot in every international issue. There is no other country or organization that I can think of that is so actively involved in every matter.

In some cases, your point definitely applies. Sure they do get a lot of flack and some of that may be over the top and they are singled out in cases where others may be doing the same thing. But, I think that in a majority of cases, the criticism is warranted, cause no one else is really in that position right now.
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