Re: FCB vs FCB

by The Franchise Fri Apr 12, 2013 7:31 pm

futbol wrote:
The Franchise wrote:

The distance covered thing is obvious waffle.

Pirlo leads everyone in the CL in distance covered the last time I checked...anyone who thinks he even pretends to press......well...

Try again. I obviously never said a single player's distance covered number is representative for a team concept called pressing. In Pirlo's individual case he is the main playmaker and has to be in constant movement to make himself available, he doesn't cover ground to defend obviously. However as a team concept pressing is just another word for running (obviously picking a single player won't give you the whole picture).

What went wrong against PSG wasn't the lack of pressing. When Pedro gave away the ball which led to PSG's goal he was immediately closing down Verratti and even got a touch to the ball but still lost the individual battle. Verratti stayed in possession and immediately played a long ball to Ibra over the whole Barca midfield. No pressing in the world is going to stop that move (it's just impossible to successfully close down every single time in 90 minutes). The main question that should be asked is something completely different:

(look how tight Pedro is to Verratti before he plays the pass, how much more presing do you want?)

Why in the hell do Barcelona have 7 players (including both fullbacks) pushed high up the pitch like that when they have a 2 away goal advantage? Why are they literally begging to get punished on the counter? With that style of play it's obvious that in 90 minutes at least 1 long ball will completely take them apart. All it takes is just 1 long ball really. I have seen this kind of move take Barca apart for the 92758th time now. The most comical one was Khedira assisting Ronaldo in the Supercopa return leg when he just brainlessly hoofed the ball upfront. Lampard assisting Ramires in Camp Nou. Or Montolivo who almost assisted Niang with a long ball from inside his own box. With Spain under del Bosque I don't see this happening. They have infinitely more balance at the back:

1. Ramos is a centerback. Adriano, Mascherano, Song are not.
2. Arbeloa is a defensive-minded fullback. He's shit but at least he's staying at the back. Alves and Alba both venture forward at the same time.
3. Alonso-Busquets gives extra stability in the middle. Barca is the only top team team which plays with a single holding midfielder. Madrid are protecting their back 4 with Alonso and Khedira. Bayern are protecting their back 4 with Piggy and Martinez.

Why is the management not fixing this?

Other chances that were created in the PSG game were also mostly caused by individual mistakes. It started with Busquets in the 4th minute playing the ball into Lavezzi's feet. Pique did something similar. Valdes directly hoofed the ball into a PSG striker's feet. And of course Barca lost the aerial battles (Lucas vs. Alba). How is more aggressive pressing going to stop the defenders from not being able to pass the ball out of the back properly?

1. Buy defenders.
2. Don't play with 2 wingbacks at the same time.
3. Don't play such a ridiculous highline. 7 players at the same time in the final third is just a nonsense system.
4. ???
5. Then talk about pressing.

Are you seriously going to ignore the post I made which was directly related to what we were discussing? Seriously?

Your picture is just one single goal...Pedro shouldnt of been pressing him anyway, the only reason he did was because he passed it directly to him and was going in that direction to recieve a return pass.

But more importantly, you cant take one play, you need to take the entire game, all the chances, all the possible chances, the reason we lacked control.

Showing one play (even the goal) which shows some level of pressure is pretty much unimportant because it isnt reflective of the whole game.

Look, we all know the individual problems with the defenders, its not new. But it doesnt matter, you can have whatever defenders you like, if you dont have a functional gameplan they will always fail.

Your list it frankly stupid. There is nothing wrong with high line, especially not if you press. Dont dimiss pressing as "then talk about it"...no, its the fundemental difference for us, its what allows us to survive defensively while fielding many offensive and creative players. So dont dismiss pressing, you clearly have no idea about its importance.

by The Franchise Fri Apr 12, 2013 7:32 pm

VivaStPauli wrote:This is all assuming Barca win the midfield battle though.

But the ref won't be Spanish, so how much diving will Barca really be able to pull off?

Because they have a better midfield.

Cry about diving all you like (actually dont because your annoying) but its a fact.

by Real Kandahar Fri Apr 12, 2013 7:45 pm

The Franchise wrote:Dont know what game you was watching, against PSG our pressing was woeful.

Bring up the distance run all you like, how about you tell us how many balls we won in their half? Messi, Xavi, Iniesta, Villa and Cesc combined for a grand total of 0.

Distance covered doesnt mean anything.

exactly, futbol is clueless.

where is the 6 second rule?

by Zealous Fri Apr 12, 2013 7:45 pm

I don't find calling Barca players divers annoying at all so you have my permission to continue Viva :coffee:

by VivaStPauli Fri Apr 12, 2013 7:49 pm

The Franchise wrote:Because they have a better midfield.

Maybe by a slim margin now that Kroos got axed, but your aging good-in-2011-stars don't impress me. Get an English ref and Biscuits is getting you nowhere.

Cry about diving all you like (actually dont because your annoying) but its a fact.

Well dive all you like (actually don't because it's annoying) - but Bayern won't just get dominated by that midfield. They might get edged now that Kroos is injured, but that's about it.

Either the Whopper Gnome shows up and bangs in two or three goals that technically aren't physically possible, or the annoying Bavarians will make half the pubs in my city univisitable.

by BarcaLearning Fri Apr 12, 2013 7:50 pm

futbol wrote:PS: Sometimes I believe people try to be too clever by not pointing out the blatantly obvious. Barca's defense doesn't suck because Barca isn't pressing anymore. It sucks because prime Alves-Pique-prime Puyol-prime Abidal has turned into past his prime Alves-WakaWaka-Adriano-Alba lately. 3 wingbacks, 1 ballplaying centerback with 1 defensive midfielder infront of them and people complain about pressing. I'm actually wondering how Ibrahimovic didn't score a single legal () goal past that shower of shit.

Anyone who watches old Clasicos from Pep's heydays (there are plenty on YouTube) will confirm that Barca's pressing hasn't been as God-like as people want to remember it to be. Barca always conceded chances and goals against proper teams. Even against Arsenal they conceded 2 in the Emirates. Twice. With Abidal, Pique and Puyol in the backline. Against Chelsea they could have easily conceded a couple of penalties. Drenthe bottled a 1 on 1 with Valdes in the Camp Nou. Bendtner almost toepoked Barca out of the CL. When they demolished Madrid in the Bernabeu with 6 goals, they still conceded 2. Really nothing new my friends.

Lol @ WakaWaka! Laughing

Reading the above just made my perception on Barca's level drop a little lower Sad

Probably true though.... and I see ur "argument" with Dani.... the system is not perfect I agree.... We have had luck at times during the past few years when oppositions have just missed their chances in key moments at times.

Pique for the good of Barca and his footballing career, perhaps should ditch Shakira? Or get ditched by Shakira, it will likely happen sometime eventually anyway Laughing

I guess we will find out longer term what Tito does with the strats and team.... hopefully in the summer we will strengthen the CB position though, clearly we need to...

by Arquitecto Fri Apr 12, 2013 8:19 pm

VivaStPauli wrote:
The Franchise wrote:Because they have a better midfield.
Maybe by a slim margin now that Kroos got axed, but your aging good-in-2011-stars don't impress me. Get an English ref and Biscuits is getting you nowhere.

Cry about diving all you like (actually dont because your annoying) but its a fact.

Well dive all you like (actually don't because it's annoying) - but Bayern won't just get dominated by that midfield. They might get edged now that Kroos is injured, but that's about it.

Either the Whopper Gnome shows up and bangs in two or three goals that technically aren't physically possible, or the annoying Bavarians will make half the pubs in my city univisitable.

Busquets hasn't dived for over a season. I, a frequent critic of his theatrics lay testament to this.

-Iniesta has been the best midfielder in Europe this season.
-Xavi has been 80% of Xavi yet that 80% is still the best midfielder of the decade or more.
-Busquets is the best DM in the world. Not even a debate these days.

I don't see how a midfield who has won it all is marginally better (or equal) to a midfield who hasn't won anywhere near as much.

Barca's record without Messi will surprise you.

by Swanhends Fri Apr 12, 2013 8:22 pm

Can't believe Mandzukic got suspended for literally nothing

#injustica

by Swanhends Fri Apr 12, 2013 8:24 pm

Zealous wrote:Expect some epic diving from both teams :I'munoriginal:

That Sig HHAHAHAHAHA :bow:

by DeletedUser#1 Fri Apr 12, 2013 8:25 pm

Swanhends wrote:Can't believe Mandzukic got suspended for literally nothing

#injustica

Chiellinig is a vile scum, what did you really expect.

typical juve

by RealGunner Fri Apr 12, 2013 8:27 pm

Zealous wrote:Expect some epic diving from both teams :I'munoriginal:

That Sig LMFAO rofl

by sportsczy Fri Apr 12, 2013 8:31 pm

If Messi wasn't there Arqi, Barca don't get past PSG. Barca literally can't score against good teams without him.

by LeVersacci Fri Apr 12, 2013 8:47 pm

Can we see the possession be distributed between the 2 teams? hmm

by CBarca Fri Apr 12, 2013 10:34 pm

sportsczy wrote:If Messi wasn't there Arqi, Barca don't get past PSG. Barca literally can't score against good teams without him.

Lol we just beat Mallorca 5-1 without Messi...

by Rebaño Sagrado Fri Apr 12, 2013 10:38 pm

CBarca wrote:
sportsczy wrote:If Messi wasn't there Arqi, Barca don't get past PSG. Barca literally can't score against good teams without him.

Lol we just beat Mallorca 5-1 without Messi...

by Great Leader Sprucenuce Fri Apr 12, 2013 10:39 pm

sportsczy wrote:If Messi wasn't there Arqi, Barca don't get past PSG. Barca literally can't score against good teams without him.

23 wins from 26 CL games( the 3 didn't win they also rested Xavi, Iniesta etc etc and they were also group stage games where they also already won the group) without Messi before PSG but ok lol.

I know they played shite against PSG but in general its a myth, they usually still win without Messi even against the good teams.

by The Franchise Fri Apr 12, 2013 10:48 pm

VivaStPauli wrote:
The Franchise wrote:Because they have a better midfield.
Maybe by a slim margin now that Kroos got axed, but your aging good-in-2011-stars don't impress me. Get an English ref and Biscuits is getting you nowhere.

Cry about diving all you like (actually dont because your annoying) but its a fact.

Well dive all you like (actually don't because it's annoying) - but Bayern won't just get dominated by that midfield. They might get edged now that Kroos is injured, but that's about it.

Either the Whopper Gnome shows up and bangs in two or three goals that technically aren't physically possible, or the annoying Bavarians will make half the pubs in my city univisitable.

You say slim, I say gigantic.

You can disrespect Busquets, Xavi and Iniesta all you like...all 3 have destroyed better midfields than Bayern so your talk means pretty much nothing.

Maybe Bayern will win the midfield battle, who knows...but as I said, we have proven ourselfs already against anyone and everyone in our way, any ref you like, so untill Bayern does that, they are not even qualified to be in the discussion.

by Harmonica Fri Apr 12, 2013 10:50 pm

Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:
sportsczy wrote:If Messi wasn't there Arqi, Barca don't get past PSG. Barca literally can't score against good teams without him.

23 wins from 26 CL games( the 3 didn't win they also rested Xavi, Iniesta etc etc and they were also group stage games where they also already won the group) without Messi before PSG but ok lol.

I know they played shite against PSG but in general its a myth, they usually still win without Messi even against the good teams.

What good teams have Barca won without Messi past 2 seasons?

by VivaStPauli Fri Apr 12, 2013 10:52 pm

I'm not disrespecting Xavi. Only Iniesta and Bisquit.

by Swanhends Fri Apr 12, 2013 11:01 pm

The Franchise wrote:
VivaStPauli wrote:
The Franchise wrote:Because they have a better midfield.
Maybe by a slim margin now that Kroos got axed, but your aging good-in-2011-stars don't impress me. Get an English ref and Biscuits is getting you nowhere.

Cry about diving all you like (actually dont because your annoying) but its a fact.

Well dive all you like (actually don't because it's annoying) - but Bayern won't just get dominated by that midfield. They might get edged now that Kroos is injured, but that's about it.

Either the Whopper Gnome shows up and bangs in two or three goals that technically aren't physically possible, or the annoying Bavarians will make half the pubs in my city univisitable.

You say slim, I say gigantic.

You can disrespect Busquets, Xavi and Iniesta all you like...all 3 have destroyed better midfields than Bayern so your talk means pretty much nothing.

Maybe Bayern will win the midfield battle, who knows...but as I said, we have proven ourselfs already against anyone and everyone in our way, any ref you like, so untill Bayern does that, they are not even qualified to be in the discussion.

Just out of curiosity, what midfields have they destroyed that you consider better than Bayerns?

by VivaStPauli Fri Apr 12, 2013 11:04 pm

There aren't even any.

by Great Leader Sprucenuce Fri Apr 12, 2013 11:07 pm

by RealGunner Fri Apr 12, 2013 11:09 pm

VivaStPauli wrote:
The Franchise wrote:Because they have a better midfield.
Maybe by a slim margin now that Kroos got axed, but your aging good-in-2011-stars don't impress me. Get an English ref and Biscuits is getting you nowhere.

Cry about diving all you like (actually dont because your annoying) but its a fact.

Well dive all you like (actually don't because it's annoying) - but Bayern won't just get dominated by that midfield. They might get edged now that Kroos is injured, but that's about it.

Either the Whopper Gnome shows up and bangs in two or three goals that technically aren't physically possible, or the annoying Bavarians will make half the pubs in my city univisitable.

Bayern's midfield won't get dominated by the undisputed best midfield in the world ?

Man to man or as a trio. BusquetsXaviIniesta have no competition.

by VivaStPauli Fri Apr 12, 2013 11:13 pm

Xaviesta are awesome. But they haven't come up at anything like Bayern in a while. Of course they're favourites. But wingers included this will be though. And Busquets is meh.

by guest7 Fri Apr 12, 2013 11:16 pm

Harmonica wrote:
Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:
sportsczy wrote:If Messi wasn't there Arqi, Barca don't get past PSG. Barca literally can't score against good teams without him.

23 wins from 26 CL games( the 3 didn't win they also rested Xavi, Iniesta etc etc and they were also group stage games where they also already won the group) without Messi before PSG but ok lol.

I know they played shite against PSG but in general its a myth, they usually still win without Messi even against the good teams.
What good teams have Barca won without Messi past 2 seasons?

Classic example of Mole Barca bias Laughing

Seriously, answer the question Mole. What good team has Barca won without Messi? Laughing

The only time Barca doesn't field Messi is when the games don't matter. That's why they win them

by futbol Fri Apr 12, 2013 11:18 pm

Bayern have paid € 40 million for a Spanish midfielder who doesn't even get into the Spanish squad. He's the sub of Busquets' sub. Laughing

And let's not even start to talk about his partner Slowsteiger ... sorry, Chokesteiger. Laughing

Bayern fans. Laughing

Getting ahead of themselves because they beat an overrated Juve team. Spain beat that lot (Juve players + proper stikers in Balo + Cassano upfront) 4-0. Laughing

Without Messi. Laughing

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