Is Arsenal better without Jack Wilshire

He played in 8 of the losses not 9, and one of which was as a substitute. But really so what? Cazorla played in all our losses, that means we play better without cazorla does it?

Except olympiakos, neither of them played in that loss, messaging makes it 12 losses

Dnmac4 wrote:Arsenal simply almost never lose when Wilshire doesn't play. That is a FACT.

Diego Armando Maradona wrote:He played in 8 of the losses not 9, and one of which was as a substitute. But really so what? Cazorla played in all our losses, that means we play better without cazorla does it?

Except olympiakos, neither of them played in that loss, messaging makes it 12 losses

"So what"? Great excuse. So what, Arsenal lose a lot when Wilshere is in the team. In fact they almost never lose when he's out of the team.

So what, who cares.

That's pretty much what we have come to expect from you, rubbish and child like excuses.

izzy wrote:Simply No.

I actually think they are.... in some ways at least.

Wilshere is still defensively naive and a turn over machine as eye catching as his dribbling runs are they have a lot more balance, solidity and fluidity about them without him.

I remember their form at beginning of season before Wilshere came back too, which was very promising at the time.

Not to say this will be the case long term though as Wilshere is still a kid with lots to learn but i do think they are a much better passing team with Arteta-Ramsey-Rosicky in there instead.

Diego Armando Maradona wrote:He played in 8 of the losses not 9, and one of which was as a substitute. But really so what? Cazorla played in all our losses, that means we play better without cazorla does it?

Except olympiakos, neither of them played in that loss, messaging makes it 12 losses

And why do you keep talking about Cazorla? This thread has nothing to do with him yet you can't stop cutting on your best player, I don't know why? Has he done something to your mother?

Cazorla get's more of a pass IMO because he actually produces (12 goals, 7 assists). Plus he has carried you guys to a couple very important wins this season and is easily Arsenal's best player. You're pretty much the only one who hasn't realized that by now.

rwo power wrote:

Dnmac4 wrote:I believe this started when they played Bayern off the pitch in the second leg of the Champions league. I think the first leg was one of the last games Wilshere played in and Arsenal got destroyed 3-1 at home.

So now The Gunner record w/o Jack is 10 wins 3 Draws and 1 loss. And that is with playing some very good teams I may add to include – Liverpool, Man City, Chelsea, Olympiakos (destroying the Greek league) and Bayern (destroying the German League.)

Did you even watch the match? Bayern were complacent as they comfortably defeated Arsenal in London and never really got out of second gear in München. They just did enough to go through and obviously it sufficed.

Never thought I'd see you, Rwo, trot out the old "Bayern played shit on purpose" spiel, but there it is

Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:

izzy wrote:Simply No.

I actually think they are.... in some ways at least.

Wilshere is still defensively naive and a turn over machine as eye catching as his dribbling runs are they have a lot more balance, solidity and fluidity about them without him.

I remember their form at beginning of season before Wilshere came back too, which was very promising at the time.

Not to say this will be the case long term though as Wilshere is still a kid with lots to learn but i do think they are a much better passing team with Arteta-Ramsey-Rosicky in there instead.

Agreed, I would add that they seem to have more bite on the offensive end as well. It's no secret I think Wilshere's final product is terrible for someone who has the ball so much.

And it seems Ox and Gervinho play more when Jack is out of the game and It's also no secret I really like Ox. I said last year that Wenger should be fired if he keeps benching Ox, and I still stand behind that. I've always thought he's the better young prospect and he needs games. The guy needs to play.

We've just learned to adapt while our best players are injured. Diaby, Cesc, Rapey and now Wilshere

Cazorla is your favourite right? So I am taking your logic to show that your favourite is even worse by your logic, not to say cazorla is bad, but to show your reasoning is pathetic.


Seriously dude you are nothing but hot air, just admit you have completely failed on your own thread because you got your facts wrong.

Now you are trying to pin arsenals losses on Wilshere, it's pathetic.

I don't agree about Ox tbh i just don't think he's ready at all yet, mentally and physically he doesn't look like someone who is capable of starting.

Lots of raw ability but not much has been put into practice as of now.

Our early season form turned into a disaster before wilshere returned. I know this is difficult for some to remember.....

Wilshere a turnover machine? I'm not sure what his stats are but he usually finds a good pass at the end of his dribbles.

Diego Armando Maradona wrote:Our early season form turned into a disaster before wilshere returned. I know this is difficult for some to remember.....

Wouldn't say it was a disaster but i do agree you dropped significantly.

Your team definitely has a better balance, fluidity and solidity than it has at any stage this season.

This cannot be denied tbh, just like before Cesc left you played Ramsey and Wilshere for a bit and it looked more fluid and defensively better without Cesc.

Doesn't mean Wilshere should be dropped either or anything and no need to get mad at people having a different opinion.

Also you are accusing of dnmac of playing favourites, but you can't take any criticism of Wilshere at all he in yours eyes is perfect.

In any case with Verm coming back you need all the energy you can get

He isn't perfect to me, I know what he needs to improve but this thread was based on false/made up stats, I'm not gonna agree with that lol.

Diego Armando Maradona wrote:Our early season form turned into a disaster before wilshere returned. I know this is difficult for some to remember.....

It's not hard to remember especially for Arsenal fans... Norwich away, Schalke at home smh

Schalke are awesome

Seriously i should stop trolling i do think Arsenal are stronger defensively without him and more of a team and sometimes his naivety's are shown but its hard to determine such a thing as of yet.

Maybe when he comes back he should actually play AM

urbaNRoots wrote:It's not hard to remember especially for Arsenal fans... Norwich away, Schalke at home smh

Schalke won against Dortmund home and away this season, too. Never underestimate the Royalblues!

rwo power wrote:

urbaNRoots wrote:It's not hard to remember especially for Arsenal fans... Norwich away, Schalke at home smh

Schalke won against Dortmund home and away this season, too. Never underestimate the Royalblues!

Oh please RWO. I know you live close enough to Gelsenkirchen to kick a ball into the Veltins which means you are a closet miners supporter.

Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:Schalke are awesome

:

Drew with them away from home with Wilshere back

#justsaying

Arquitecto wrote:Oh please RWO. I know you live close enough to Gelsenkirchen to kick a ball into the Veltins which means you are a closet miners supporter.

I'd be if they'd sign a proper GK next season (preferably someone like Yann Sommer or maybe Mattia Perin ). Ever since Manuel Neuer left, they have a severe problem in that position.

Hey of the 15 games Barca have played without Messi the past 3 years they won 14 and drew 1.

Clearly they're better off without him and should bench him for Fabregas.

Some passing stats to consider:

Wilshere
Passing rate: 86.2%
Accurate Through Balls per game: 0.4
Turnovers per game: 0.9

Santi Cazorla
Passing rate: 87.1%
Accurate TB per game: 0.8
Turnovers per game: 1

Rosicky
Passing rate: 86.1%
Accurate TB per game: 0.2
Turnovers per game: 1

Ramsey
Passing rate: 87.4%
Accurate TB per game: 0.4
Turnovers per game: 0.5

Arteta
Passing rate: 91.9%
Accurate TB per game: 0.2
Turnovers per game: 0.5

It's pretty consistent throughout (barring Arteta, but he plays deeper than all of them), so I fail to see how Wilshere is a turnover machine or why he should be highlighted as someone who loses the ball more often than others.

Anyway, it's pure coincidence that we're winning without Wilshere right now. The games he's missed just happened to be the games where we've improved defensively a lot and it's our improved defending that is winning us games right now.

Wilshere seldom contributed to any of our defensive failings and if you were to put him into the team right now, he certainly wouldn't weaken our ability to defend. Rosicky and Ramsey aren't any better at the defensive side of the game than he is and if all three were fit, Wilshere would start over them every time.

The streak has to do with a lack of vermaelen not wilshere

Honestly I couldn't say whether Arsenal are better with or without Jack Wilshire, as I've never seen them play with him in the side. What position does he play? How old is he? What's his nationality?

RedOranje wrote:Honestly I couldn't say whether Arsenal are better with or without Jack Wilshire, as I've never seen them play with him in the side. What position does he play? How old is he? What's his nationality?

Is that you Balotelli??

He's trolling you because the player's name is Wilshere and not Wilshire.