Re: Mou has lost his mind

by Le Samourai Sun Dec 23, 2012 1:58 pm

Swanhends wrote:So Casillas = John Terry of La Liga

I didnt realize he was bigger than the team, but thats clear now

Mourinhio believes he is bigger than the team and the club as a whole. He's willing to sacrifice winning to carry out his own personal battles.

Casillas is merely an important part of both.

by Swanhends Sun Dec 23, 2012 2:02 pm

Le Samourai wrote:
Swanhends wrote:So Casillas = John Terry of La Liga

I didnt realize he was bigger than the team, but thats clear now

Mourinhio is bigger than the team and the club as a whole.

Casillas is merely an important part of both.

If benching Casillas is the spark that gets him fired, that would seem to indicate otherwise hmm

by Le Samourai Sun Dec 23, 2012 2:04 pm

Swanhends wrote:
Le Samourai wrote:
Swanhends wrote:So Casillas = John Terry of La Liga

I didnt realize he was bigger than the team, but thats clear now

Mourinhio is bigger than the team and the club as a whole.

Casillas is merely an important part of both.

If benching Casillas is the spark that gets him fired, that would seem to indicate otherwise

Because benching Casillas was a rational decision in the best interest of the team ? hmm

by the xcx Sun Dec 23, 2012 2:05 pm

Not just that but also Media. Remember when Ramos was benched? They were all over Mous. They dont respect anything he does for the team, instead they nitpick.
Whats the point of being a coach for, if your not the one pulling the strings?

by Swanhends Sun Dec 23, 2012 2:16 pm

Le Samourai wrote:
Swanhends wrote:
Le Samourai wrote:

Mourinhio is bigger than the team and the club as a whole.

Casillas is merely an important part of both.

If benching Casillas is the spark that gets him fired, that would seem to indicate otherwise

Because benching Casillas was a rational decision in the best interest of the team ?

It doesn't have to be, because thats not the point

The point is that its the managers decision...Not the medias, not the fans, not Perez's, and definitely not the players

If you disagree with his selections or how he is managing, then fire him and be done with it...Find yourself a lapdog manager who will bend to whatever the media or fans or players think is best

And the fact that Perez is reportedly meeting with club captains rather than Mou himself says all you need to know here...

by Mamad Sun Dec 23, 2012 2:17 pm

Remember Valdano's famous comment? here :

"Put a stick with shit hanging from it in the middle of this passionate, crazy stadium [Anfield] and there are people who will tell you it's a work of art. It's not: it's shit hanging from a stick [...] if football is going the way Chelsea and Liverpool are taking it, we had better be ready to wave goodbye to any expression of the cleverness and talent we have enjoyed for a century."

And perez wanted them to work together Laughing

.

by sportsczy Sun Dec 23, 2012 2:24 pm

xcx... don't compare apples and oranges. Ramos was (and still is to a certain extent) playing meh football. He makes a ton of tactical errors. You also have a very capable alternative there in Varane. To add to it, Ramos was making stupid comments to the media.

Iker is a top 5 keeper in the world, even in his current form. He's just not in god mode. He's always been very good at staying positive in the media. And Adan is a shat alternative. Not to mention he's the team captain.

You are comparing apples and oranges.

Stop falling in Mou's trap of blaming everyone but himself. He knew exactly what he was doing in benching Iker. Not only that, if he was truly being a team player, he would have let Flo know so that the front office could prepare for the backlash.

Instead he acts like the coward that he is and tries to deflect his responsibility of the team's performance.

What a douche.

by Le Samourai Sun Dec 23, 2012 2:24 pm

Swanhends wrote:
Le Samourai wrote:
Swanhends wrote:

If benching Casillas is the spark that gets him fired, that would seem to indicate otherwise

Because benching Casillas was a rational decision in the best interest of the team ?

It doesn't have to be, because thats not the point

The point is that its the managers decision...Not the medias, not the fans, not Perez's, and definitely not the players

If you disagree with his selections or how he is managing, then fire him and be done with it...Find yourself a lap-drop manager who will bend to whatever the media or fans or players think is best
And the fact that Perez is reportedly meeting with club captains rather than Mou himself says all you need to know here...

When did doing what's in the best interest of the team become "not the point"

It's not about finding a lap-drop manager, it's about finding a competent one who would get the best out of the team.

He's done here.

It's not just one player that hates him, it's half the team if not more. We're not going anywhere with that.

You can blame the players, blame the media, blame the organization.

He has failed in basically every aspect of his job this season (and failed in the finer aspects even during the successful periods). There is no way to overlook that.

But he's played the game well. He's poked the press into their frenzy and now, his failures will be overlooked over the narrow minded guise of anachronistic phrases like "It's the managers decision", and "No player is bigger than the club"

What is that supposed to be?

A defense for stupidity.

Wonderful.

Instead of kicking the ball into the goal Torres kicked it into the 10th row.

My response

"It's a players decision".

by Dnmac4 Sun Dec 23, 2012 2:45 pm

Giggity5313 wrote:
Dnmac4 wrote:I and a few other posters have been saying this for years (Some Madrid fans too) since he has been at Madrid that he has been a terrible coach and figurehead of the organization. And make no mistake that is exactly what he wanted to be the most popular player on the team or in the upper management and to fire anyone who had a different opinion of a better way to do things even when he was acting like a total baby and in the wrong.

And the I and the people who said he was cheapening Madrid's good name not living up to the MASSIVE salary he demanded by refusing to do things a coach does even to the smallest level like behaving like an adult and attending press conference's, not punching other coaches, not firing some of the classiest people at the club for standing up to him, not making up insane conspiracy theories and forcing his players to go along with them, I could go on and on.

And now the same people who defended him tooth and nail for what ever he did no matter how bad or disrespectful are suddenly over in our corner now? Please, you guys have been total fan boys of this horses ass for three straight years while he produced very little results and turned your respected club into a circus.

You people need to stay over in your corner because what he did today is not the least bit surprising. And it was obvious the whole time you weren't true Madrid fans or fan's of La Liga but just fans of that horses ass Mourinho or anti Barca people.

Again, he has been disrespecting La Liga and Madrid since he stepped foot in Spain all while basically getting his ass kicked and you stood in his corner no matter what calling us cry babies or what ever names you could think up. So this ship has sailed, go become fans of whatever team he goes to next because you're not true Madrid fans just Johnny come lately's and bandwagon jumpers.

If you were fans you would have seen what he's been doing like Nick as he's been at it for three years now and you would have had enough of it a long long time ago. But your not Madrid fans your Mou fans so stay with the sinking ship, our's is full.

And BTW, if he was winning that doesn't make his behavior any better. He's still a horses ass and a selfish cu** who has little mans complex and needs to shout louder then anyone in the room. His shouting just gets more obvious when he doesn't win but it was always there.

Wait dnmac. So we can't change our opinion? We're forced to support mourinho?

Kindly stfu? lol..

Yes, you are forced to support Mou because you have overlooked any and everything he did in the past to shame Madrid so it's obvious you have been a Mourinho fan not a Madrid fan.

What is so outrageous now? What he did yesterday isn't even that big of a deal compared to the stunts he's pulled in the past. 1) He was never wining on a big scale at Madrid so this year really isn't much different. 2) He's won the CL twice while finishing second in his group so that shouldn't be a surprise. 3) He's lost the league to Barca and acted like a douche bag before so that can't be what you're mad about. 4) He benches one of your best players (Ozil) all the time so that can't be what you're upset about.

Nick is a Madrid fan because he knows the history, tradition, and class they have shown over the years and spoke out when Mou decided from pretty much day 1 to shit all over that. He cared more about his team then a coach EVERYONE knew would leave them in 2-3 years.

This forum has a lot of Mourinho and Ronaldo fans that claim to be hardcore Madrid fans like you.

Barca has a lot of Messi fans that claim to be hardcore Barca fans too so it goes both ways the difference is that Messi isn't at war with his own club or the league they play in for personal gain or glory. In fact he pretty much displays all the good things Barca is about and is a great representative of the club even when people like Rosell have not been.

So yes kindly jump of the bandwagon and follow Mou where ever he goes next as both clubs have enough bandwagon fans we don't need anymore. And your behaviour and comments over the last two years have been prime examples of fan boyism and not knowing or valuing the traditions and class Madrid have been about for the last 100 years or so.

by Die Borussen Sun Dec 23, 2012 2:56 pm

Le Samourai wrote:
Swanhends wrote:
Le Samourai wrote:

Because benching Casillas was a rational decision in the best interest of the team ?

It doesn't have to be, because thats not the point

The point is that its the managers decision...Not the medias, not the fans, not Perez's, and definitely not the players

If you disagree with his selections or how he is managing, then fire him and be done with it...Find yourself a lap-drop manager who will bend to whatever the media or fans or players think is best
And the fact that Perez is reportedly meeting with club captains rather than Mou himself says all you need to know here...

It's the managers job to do what's in the best interest of the team. He is not doing that.

You are missing the point.

It's not about finding a lap-drop manager, it's about finding a competent one who would get the best out of the team.

He's done here.

It's not just one player that hates him, it's half the team if not more. We're not going anywhere with that.

You can blame the players, blame the media, blame the organization.

He has failed in basically every aspect of his job this season (and failed in the finer aspects even during the successful periods). There is no way to overlook that.

But he's played the game well. He's poked the press into their frenzy and now, his failures will be overlooked over the narrow minded guise of anachronistic phrases like "It's the managers decision", and "No player is bigger than the club"

What is that supposed to be?

A defense for stupidity.

Wonderful.

Instead of kicking the ball into the goal Torres kicked it into the 10th row.

My response

"It's a players decision".

as always media magnifies things and fans fall into it

half the team is against him? cmon mate..

just cause they are not succeeding on the pitch it doesnt mean that something internal only should be the cause of it, let alone half the team being against their coach lol.

marca is reporting this AS is reporting that and day after day fake situations overtake people's minds to create this current state we are in..

obviously something is going on, but its not as you or others describe it to be, its just that being 16 points behind your most hated rival makes you and everyone else desperate to blame someone..

guess who is the easy target?
not sayin is not his fault for everyone being against him but its not fair imo cause i know that he wants to win, which is what madrid wants too
now that by the looks of it he is failing to do so people turn into his problematic character for a solution.. people like nick..
one day you are okay with his off the pitch actions cause he succeeds on the pitch and the other day you are not cause.. you know why..

by billy_gr Sun Dec 23, 2012 2:59 pm

i've read in this thread that in his 3 year run Mou restored Madrid to the top. He didn't Mou's first objective and Flo's vision was first and foremost the CL. If Mou leaves he is leaving having failed

by Guiltybystander Sun Dec 23, 2012 3:14 pm

I could not not return for this.

After all these years, finally we get rid of Mou. He is great for clubs without a legacy, but does not suit the stature of Madrid in terms of his behavior. RM is the classy club, not the trashy club it has slowly been turning into since Galacticos 1.

I stand by my point that I have had for years: we need a young coach that was a legendary player in his days. A Zidane, Laudrup or Pep (not literally those), not a good old faithful or a career manager like Mou.

by sportsczy Sun Dec 23, 2012 3:16 pm

I don't think many of us long time Madrid fans were ever OK with Mou's antics. He was always on thin ice with me... especially after he pushed Valdano out. I'm not a big Flo Perez fan to begin with either. He took a perfectly great franchise and messed with it in the early 2000s. Flo is a good business man. But Real Madrid is about football first. As a football president, he has been mostly fail.

But getting back to Mou, you only had the Mou fanboys and the pseudo fans who approved of him. I disliked him but, like CR7, i have to root for his on field success since i love Madrid. But as an individual, he's amongst my least favorite.

I got insulted regularly for it in the past 3 years and i will continue to get insulted regarding my views of CR7. But that's ok.

by guest7 Sun Dec 23, 2012 3:19 pm

Swanhends wrote:So Casillas = John Terry of La Liga

I didnt realize he was bigger than the team, but thats clear now

Quite different in my opinion.

Casillas got benched and is being silent about it. Nothing from the media outrage has been coming from him, it's the fans that are outraged by how Mourinho decided to bench him for Adan.

When John Terry gets benched, the outrage comes from him and the dressing room.

Iker has reached a untouchable godlike status for us Madrid fans and I really don't mind it becouse none deserves it as much as him.

See it as the Messi of Real Madrid. I'm sure the outrage would be just as big if Messi got benched for a player like Adan and then being told he was benched becouse some other player is better.

by Swanhends Sun Dec 23, 2012 3:32 pm

Se7en wrote:
Swanhends wrote:So Casillas = John Terry of La Liga

I didnt realize he was bigger than the team, but thats clear now

Quite different in my opinion.

Casillas got benched and is being silent about it. Nothing from the media outrage has been coming from him, it's the fans that are outraged by how Mourinho decided to bench him for Adan.

When John Terry gets benched, the outrage comes from him and the dressing room.

Iker has reached a untouchable godlike status for us Madrid fans and I really don't mind it becouse none deserves it as much as him.

See it as the Messi of Real Madrid. I'm sure the outrage would be just as big if Messi got benched for a player like Adan and then being told he was benched becouse some other player is better.

But LeSam just said that half the team is against him, and someone else said hes lost the lockerroom...isn't that "outrage coming from the dressing room" ?

Also Messi getting benched is different than Casillas. Messi has scored 90-however many goals and is in best form of his life...Multiple Madrid fans in this thread have admitted that Casillas is not in great form

by sportsczy Sun Dec 23, 2012 3:36 pm

Not great form for Casillas is not being the undisputed #1 keeper in the world. Off form means top 5 in world... don't put words in Madrid fans' mouths to further your point.

And Iker is a much bigger football world legend at this point than Messi is.

by the xcx Sun Dec 23, 2012 3:38 pm

When it comes to picking an starting XI choosing based on form is what counts most. I cant stand players who cant afford getting benched game or 2 because of their previous commitment to club and who knows what else.
DDR has been benched by Zeman quite a few times, everyone was okay with that even him.

by Le Samourai Sun Dec 23, 2012 3:40 pm

The people who are fed up with Mou were fed up with him long before this. Some many not like that Casillas was dropped, but that merely exacerbated already existing discontent.

Dropping him served no purpose and hurt the team. Both in terms of the negative exposure it courted and on the pitch.

You can continue to try to justify it if you wish but come better than reductionist, parochial phrases like "It's the coach's decision".

by Onyx Sun Dec 23, 2012 3:42 pm

Torres doesn't get benched, when he has bad form. Elite players just can't get benched. They need to play to regain 'top form'.

by Guiltybystander Sun Dec 23, 2012 3:42 pm

sportsczy wrote: And Iker is a much bigger football world legend at this point than Messi is.

This isn't really true to be honest. Iker is not in the list of greatest in all of football history, Messi - regardless of the make up of this list, has by now definitely cracked into it.

(Btw, off topic, but I was thinking: Both Messi and Iker severely lack in the aspect of personality; neither are particularly interesting; the ones that truly survive the times usually do; Pele, Maradona, Cruyff: all edging on at least a little bit crazy. I can't think of a really boring guy ever being the great hero (except for maybe Messi then).)

by sportsczy Sun Dec 23, 2012 3:45 pm

Guiltybystander wrote:
sportsczy wrote: And Iker is a much bigger football world legend at this point than Messi is.

This isn't really true to be honest. Iker is not in the list of greatest in all of football history, Messi - regardless of the make up of this list, has by now definitely cracked into it.

Iker not among the all time greats? Ok dude. You need to buy new history books lol.

by Guiltybystander Sun Dec 23, 2012 3:49 pm

sportsczy wrote:
Guiltybystander wrote:
sportsczy wrote: And Iker is a much bigger football world legend at this point than Messi is.

This isn't really true to be honest. Iker is not in the list of greatest in all of football history, Messi - regardless of the make up of this list, has by now definitely cracked into it.

Iker not among the all time greats? Ok dude. You need to buy new history books lol.

Sorry, Iker is a legend no doubt. But if I had to make a top 10 players in history list, I wouldn't even think about adding Iker, but Messi is by now pretty much a given. To me, I don't even think Iker was the best goalkeeper ever. I do not consider legendary status only by accomplishments in terms of prices. That would immediately eliminate any player from a smaller football countries, since they will never have international success.

by sportsczy Sun Dec 23, 2012 3:57 pm

Messi is not top 10 player yet. Not enough years. But he keeps this up, no doubt.

Best starting XI ever is more accurate because there's a huge bias for scorers and creative types in the "best ever" lists. You don't see many defenders or keepers. For the keeper spot in the best XI ever, Iker is definitely in the conversation.

by eelir Sun Dec 23, 2012 4:00 pm

sportsczy wrote:Messi is not top 10 player yet. Not enough years. But he keeps this up, no doubt.

Best starting XI ever is more accurate because there's a huge bias for scorers and creative types in the "best ever" lists. You don't see many defenders or keepers. For the keeper spot in the best XI ever, Iker is definitely in the conversation.

Sure... a player that is constantly compared to Pele and Maradona is not in top 10!

by Die Borussen Sun Dec 23, 2012 4:00 pm

who cares if he is a legend or not?
he isnt messi of gks right now on the pitch is he?
just cause he was the best or even still considered the best does that mean you cant bench him when he isnt playing like one?

messi is scoring game after game after game.. if you bench him for techincal reasons then you are an 'idiot' but iker has been playing like an average gk, he is been doing nothing exceptional
so your only argument is dont bench iker cause he has done so much for the club
ONLY THAT

by Le Samourai Sun Dec 23, 2012 4:01 pm

Idiot wrote:who cares if he is a legend or not?
he isnt messi of gks right now on the pitch is he?
just cause he was the best or even still considered the best does that mean you cant bench him when he isnt playing like one?

messi is scoring game after game after game.. if you bench him for techincal reasons then you are an 'idiot' but iker has been playing like an average gk, he is been doing nothing exceptional
so your only argument is dont bench iker cause he has done so much for the club
ONLY THAT

Or perhaps because the next option is worse,

There's that.

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