Mou has lost his mind

Idiot wrote:who cares if he is a legend or not?
he isnt messi of gks right now on the pitch is he?
just cause he was the best or even still considered the best does that mean you cant bench him when he isnt playing like one?

messi is scoring game after game after game.. if you bench him for techincal reasons then you are an 'idiot' but iker has been playing like an average gk, he is been doing nothing exceptional
so your only argument is dont bench iker cause he has done so much for the club
ONLY THAT

Le Samourai wrote:

Idiot wrote:who cares if he is a legend or not?
he isnt messi of gks right now on the pitch is he?
just cause he was the best or even still considered the best does that mean you cant bench him when he isnt playing like one?

messi is scoring game after game after game.. if you bench him for techincal reasons then you are an 'idiot' but iker has been playing like an average gk, he is been doing nothing exceptional
so your only argument is dont bench iker cause he has done so much for the club
ONLY THAT

Or perhaps because the next option is worse,

There's that.

sportsczy wrote:And Iker is a much bigger football world legend at this point than Messi is.

sportsczy wrote:And Iker is a much bigger football world legend at this point than Messi is.

Swanhends wrote:

Se7en wrote:

Swanhends wrote:So Casillas = John Terry of La Liga

I didnt realize he was bigger than the team, but thats clear now

Quite different in my opinion.

Casillas got benched and is being silent about it. Nothing from the media outrage has been coming from him, it's the fans that are outraged by how Mourinho decided to bench him for Adan.

When John Terry gets benched, the outrage comes from him and the dressing room.

Iker has reached a untouchable godlike status for us Madrid fans and I really don't mind it becouse none deserves it as much as him.

See it as the Messi of Real Madrid. I'm sure the outrage would be just as big if Messi got benched for a player like Adan and then being told he was benched becouse some other player is better.

But LeSam just said that half the team is against him, and someone else said hes lost the lockerroom...isn't that "outrage coming from the dressing room" ?

Also Messi getting benched is different than Casillas. Messi has scored 90-however many goals and is in best form of his life...Multiple Madrid fans in this thread have admitted that Casillas is not in great form

sportsczy wrote:Yeah they talk about Messi as having the best first 5 years in the pro footy ever and thus the comparison to Pele and Maradonna. And there's not doubt that Messi has perhaps had the best 5 year run ever.

But when you talk about the best players ever, you're talking about an entire career. Messi needs to keep it up for a few more years to enter the top 10 best ever discussion. You have guys that were top of the game 10-15 years to get into that discussion. I think Messi needs to keep this up for 8 at least.

No reason he can't. I'm not knocking Messi here.

sportsczy wrote:Messi is not top 10 player yet. Not enough years. But he keeps this up, no doubt.

Best starting XI ever is more accurate because there's a huge bias for scorers and creative types in the "best ever" lists. You don't see many defenders or keepers. For the keeper spot in the best XI ever, Iker is definitely in the conversation.

billy_gr wrote:i've read in this thread that in his 3 year run Mou restored Madrid to the top. He didn't Mou's first objective and Flo's vision was first and foremost the CL. If Mou leaves he is leaving having failed

Dnmac4 wrote:

billy_gr wrote:i've read in this thread that in his 3 year run Mou restored Madrid to the top. He didn't Mou's first objective and Flo's vision was first and foremost the CL. If Mou leaves he is leaving having failed

And the last point, please stop with the 100 point season, I don't know why a Barca fan has to point it out to some of you but Pelligrini in his first year which he was fired for finished on 96 points in the league while trying to put a ton of new players in place and shipping a lot of the best players from the year before out.

That in my opinion is on par if not a better achievement then the 100 point season and who knows what Pellegrini could have accomplished with a leash as long as Mourinho's.

The 100 points is a great achievement but Madrid and Barca had been hovering right around that mark for the last couple years anyways with Barca having a 99 point season and it's not like he did something mind blowing he won one more game then the coach you just fired.

sportsczy wrote:You guys think a 5-year window is good enough to get you into the top 10 list? Again, i realize that the average age here is probably around 18 and you don't realize that:
- Pele scored 29 or more goals for 18 seasons
- Maradonna was considered one of the top 2 players in the world for 8 years
- Platini, a midfielder, scored 25 or more goals in 10 seasons
- Maldini played for 25 years and was considered the best at his position for probably 20 of them
- Beckenbauer was the top 2 CBs in the world for 9 years out of his 13 at Bayern
- Cruyff was an elite player for 8 years (lowest number of elite years for one of the top 1o players)
- Zidane played top football for 18 years and was considered one of the best in the world, if not the best, for 9 of them (the other 9 were in France and he didn't get the attention)

etc.

When you speak about top 10 legends, you're talking about full resumes... not 50% resumes or 75% resumes.

I don't want to derail this thread anymore... but Dinho has probably the most spectacular 4 years you can think of. I thought he was going to be one of the best ever legends too. But suddenly, his career fell off the rails. As far as 4 year spans go, i think he had one of the best out there as well, although not at Messi's level.

That's why when you talk about legend, you have to wait a bit. I know it's hard to do for you kids lol.

sportsczy wrote:
That's why when you talk about legend, you have to wait a bit. I know it's hard to do for you kids lol.

gondov wrote:

sportsczy wrote:
That's why when you talk about legend, you have to wait a bit. I know it's hard to do for you kids lol.

Maybe we are all just kids here but explain why old folk like Wenger, SAF, Ray Hudson, e.t.c all either say Messi is already the best or top 5 at least? There was even a documentary on Messi and various legends interviewed say he is already a legend, including Zidanae, Ronaldo.

This is a quote from SAF at the Balon Dor ceremony

"The answer to that is great players would play in any generation. Lionel Messi could play in the 1950s and the present day, as could Di Stefano, Pele, Maradona, Cruyff because they are all great players.

"Lionel Messi without question fits into that category.

http://www.espnstar.com/football/news/detail/item733693/Ferguson:-Messi-is-a-legend/

sportsczy wrote:They are talking about his current level. His current level is one of the top 5 ever-worthy. They're not comparing his overall career. If you guys want to say Messi's current level is worthy of any other top player ever, i absolutely have no problem with that... in fact i agree. I think Messi has an argument that he's currently playing as well or better than anyone has, although i don't think anyone clearly wins that argument.

But when you call him one of the top 10 legends ever, then i have to bring longevity into the picture.

Nirgall wrote:

danyjr wrote:

Nirgall wrote:Mourinho said "adan esta mejor que casillas" which means "Adan's form is currently better than Casillas'"

Where does it say anything about form or currently?

the verb estar by itself means that it is temporary. It's the same as with "es gordo" and "esta gordo". Are you really from argentina?

Mr Nick09 wrote:

Real Kandahar wrote:Whether we like it or not, whether we talk about it or not, Mourinho is the Best coach out there. There are many reasons why:

First of all, bad form is something natural even if it goes on for a long time, i don't wanna go into details of it, but every team has experienced it whether big or small!!!

Secondly, players are not following orders, players are not motivated, players need to wake up!!! there is no tactical problem.... If MOU was a bad coach, how did he get 100 points in a season? how did he score RECORD number of goals in one season?? if he doesn't know how to play attacking football how was he able to do all that?

Third, Every coach has their own style, i am not a fan of Mou style counter attacking football, but as long as it receives result, it is acceptable. YES we are not getting results now, but i view this as something Temporary... CL and COPA is there! we don't know what will happen in those competitions.

What coach loves a club? unless you played in that club and were born in that city, every coach looks after his own career success... so this stupid comparison between Casillas and Mou is absurd...

Besides... Casillas has let many many easy goals in this past year! don't remember him putting an above average performance in 1 - 2 seasons now... why is he not touchable??? I see Puyol in bench at times even if he is not injured? Why can't Adan play? all those goals scored on Adan, would have been scored on Iker, why not give a youth player a chance??? you people are so hypocritical

MOU IS HERE TO STAY! AND HE WILL BRING SUCCESS AGAIN

Real Kandahar, you are still one of those vehemently defending mou around here, but i never really cared responding to one of your posts because you sound like you have started watching football about last year or so, and there are some basic things about the game that you dont understand, at least in my opinion. But i just finished watching the Dark Knight Rises , im in a good mood so i will entertain it a little.

But to begin things off, those who were riding mou's dick off last season and now turning on him are really making my ribs bhend ( ) in many ways

I always have this philosophy, regardless of results, it's the way about you go winning or losing that truly matters, that's what has always been my concern and will continue to be. There comes times when winning at any cost is necessary, but in no way should that be a consistent way of going about things in football, or in life for that matter.

By that i mean that i have accepted some of the really decadent things mou has done as a coach of this club, all for the sake of winning because it became vital at some point, but never to the point of becoming blind like most of his sheep.

Mou is not on trial because he hit a bad run of form, he is on trial for the way he got to this point. Yes bad form is natural when everything else is constant. But when it's been engineered through a failed man management politic over the course of 3 seasons, then it's another story entirely. And calling this spell a bad run of form is euphemism my friend, this is failure given our context.

You say that it's not mou's fault but his players? i genuinely laugh. When he wins la liga with a 100 points he is the one who is great, when the ship goes south, the players are to blamed lol.

Mourinho's one great motivation tool throughout his whole time in madrid has been beating barcelona. We did it, and then what? this season happened. I blame him for building a side on the sole premises of beating barcelona, that's when he relinquished anytipe of long term future in Madrid. I always understood he only came for that 2-3 seasons top, so im okay with it, but let me save you from the delusional thoughts of mou staying around for 5 or 6 seasons like the sheep were tricked into thinking.

His greatest emotional tool to steer us around is gone, so now we have football left to play, and that's when you realize we never quite learned to play football. Dont you find it alarming that we have looked incredibly worrying against the two only equally gifted teams we have played in the past 2 seasons outside of barcelona? that's where i hold my trial, the dortmund, bayern and even city of this world. disjointed, unable to build attacks, failing to handle pressure, failure to ascertain superiority. And we have become so good against barca only thanks to playing about a 100 games vs them.

Mou is a master at hedging odds on his side by signing the most expensive pieces of players in football, just so that he can get by with being an average team builder. His way of playing football is a pure reflection of his lack of creative thoughts when it comes to building system and team play. When it gets hard, play dwo DMs, kick the ball far out to the forward, run up and down, break the middle, just kick it forward far and out. Whenever we have faced a side that knows how to handle the football, a side where the emotional pull was nothing close to that of barcelona, a squad about as gifted in talents and even less sometimes, we have looked asinine for the supposed super team we are, and it's not something that started this season. When i rang the alarm bell last year, i sounded like a grumpy fan never happy, after all the team was winning, but it's never about just getting the result like i said.

Building a side with two retard players in your attacking 3 with Ronaldo on one side and Di Maria on the other is a crazy thing i say that again. should we get into a failed transfer policy that see us spending millions but not getting dramatically better and handling games or having different ways to play?

If a manager has lost the bond with his players, if he cant get them up to play anymore, to believe in a common goal, then it doesnt matter how good he is, he should go. players under performing is a direct result of the kind of disarray that goes on in that locker room. We all know they are better. they might be professional, but mourinho more that anyone will tell you that dealing with emotions is absolutely key in winning and achieving things. I just believe he cant do it anymore.