Do you guys consider Bilbao's player policy racist?

stevieg8 wrote:When you do it by region, it's no longer racist imo. Bayern sticking with Bavarians does not discriminate against any group, it simply requires residence - like running for office in the US. I would have a problem if they said "no Catholics" or "no Black players," but they're not saying anything along those lines.

Unless I'm way off base and one has to be of Basque descent as well as from the area to play for them?

Not necessarily, for example Higuian is qualified to play for Bilbao through his grandfather.

zizzle wrote:

stevieg8 wrote:When you do it by region, it's no longer racist imo. Bayern sticking with Bavarians does not discriminate against any group, it simply requires residence - like running for office in the US. I would have a problem if they said "no Catholics" or "no Black players," but they're not saying anything along those lines.

Unless I'm way off base and one has to be of Basque descent as well as from the area to play for them?

what's the difference betwen discriminating by region and discriminating by nationality ?

Region is malleable. Nationality is not.

zizzle wrote:There's no problem in promoting local talent, matter of fact i encourage that, but when your official policy is to sign only local players, which is restricting other equality talented outsiders from an equal apportunity, then it is racism. I understand that their policy is not intended to be racist but that's what it really is, its like an american corporation not hiring me because i wasnt born there. That's racist

Hm.. So the USA are racist because they require their president to be a born US American?

rwo power wrote:

zizzle wrote:There's no problem in promoting local talent, matter of fact i encourage that, but when your official policy is to sign only local players, which is restricting other equality talented outsiders from an equal apportunity, then it is racism. I understand that their policy is not intended to be racist but that's what it really is, its like an american corporation not hiring me because i wasnt born there. That's racist

Hm.. So the USA are racist because they require their president to be a born US American?

denying a qualified man an apportunity to run for a public position for reasons other than merit is racist.

You guys are getting into a different discussion and are sort of missing the point. Racist or not Bilbao's policy is a form of discrimination (I think we can all agree on that) which is what op wants to discuss.

stevieg8 wrote:

zizzle wrote:

stevieg8 wrote:When you do it by region, it's no longer racist imo. Bayern sticking with Bavarians does not discriminate against any group, it simply requires residence - like running for office in the US. I would have a problem if they said "no Catholics" or "no Black players," but they're not saying anything along those lines.

Unless I'm way off base and one has to be of Basque descent as well as from the area to play for them?

what's the difference betwen discriminating by region and discriminating by nationality ?

Region is malleable. Nationality is not.

Region is even worse, you can acquire a nationality but you cant "belong" to a region.

rwo power wrote:

zizzle wrote:There's no problem in promoting local talent, matter of fact i encourage that, but when your official policy is to sign only local players, which is restricting other equality talented outsiders from an equal apportunity, then it is racism. I understand that their policy is not intended to be racist but that's what it really is, its like an american corporation not hiring me because i wasnt born there. That's racist

Hm.. So the USA are racist because they require their president to be a born US American?

Actually, there's a lot of controversy about this. There's growing momentum to change this because it's contrary to the different anti-descrimination acts that are part of the constitution. In the end, this will be changed to allow for any citizen to run for office. The only one being excluded now is President... you can already run for everything else.

edit: i quoted the wrong act lol. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_anti-discrimination_acts#United_States

sportsczy wrote:

rwo power wrote:

zizzle wrote:There's no problem in promoting local talent, matter of fact i encourage that, but when your official policy is to sign only local players, which is restricting other equality talented outsiders from an equal apportunity, then it is racism. I understand that their policy is not intended to be racist but that's what it really is, its like an american corporation not hiring me because i wasnt born there. That's racist

Hm.. So the USA are racist because they require their president to be a born US American?

Actually, there's a lot of controversy about this. There's growing momentum to change this because it's contrary to the Anti-Descrimination Act of 1977 that's part of the constitution. In the end, this will be changed to allow for any citizen to run for office. The only one being excluded now is President... you can already run for everything else.

*nod* I thought this might be challenged one day.

But I guess we'd better go back to topic. ^^

I wonder what the Spanish constitution has to say about this. Is Bilbao's policy really legal in Spain? *curious*

Spanish sport is a complicated political minefield. I think people just let the clubs do what they want provided it's not blatantly illegal.

Racist? On what basis? There is a complete difference from Bavarians and Basque's considering Bavarians are closely linked with Germany while the Euskadi have their own language and their own identification of descent. If you closely study the history of Espana and the Basque motive for autonomy then you would understand the reasons behind it.

Athletic Club's mission is simply to provide the growth, spread and progress of Basque football and players. So far the mission has been a resounding success. Discrimination? Never heard of Jonas Ramalho? Athletic Club's black player or Fernando Amorebieta, a Venezuelan of Basque descent. Higuain, Casillas and many of close Basque lineage can also join so this is far away from even discrimination. Athletic Club has a close relationship with its roots and fans which is something you rarely see in clubs. Whats wrong in embracing Basque talent? Doesn't anyone know another reason behind it is because Basque players are also trained in the ways of Basque Futbol? Do you think only the club is behind this decision? If the club dissolved this policy the fans would completely turn against the club. Athletic Club aren't like Madrid or Barca who spend absurd amounts of money and ignore most of their Cantera. Need I remind the success Atheltic Club have had with this policy? Or that Real,Barca and Athletic Club are the only clubs who haven't been relegated?

Simply put its the promotion of Basque culture, football and youth. And thats the only way to place it.

Higuain and Iker at Bilbao

For the record I don't consider Bilbao's policy racist. Simply put the intent of the policy itself is pure. However it is discrimination, that's not even up for debate imo.

Exactly as Arq said. I just don't see how preferring your own talent can be considered discrimination.

Arq I have a question.

How heavily is the policy linked with the separatist politics of the region, are they still aggressively pursuing autonomy or is it more to do with a celebration of Basque national pride more than anything?

rwo power wrote:

sportsczy wrote:

rwo power wrote:

zizzle wrote:There's no problem in promoting local talent, matter of fact i encourage that, but when your official policy is to sign only local players, which is restricting other equality talented outsiders from an equal apportunity, then it is racism. I understand that their policy is not intended to be racist but that's what it really is, its like an american corporation not hiring me because i wasnt born there. That's racist

Hm.. So the USA are racist because they require their president to be a born US American?

Actually, there's a lot of controversy about this. There's growing momentum to change this because it's contrary to the Anti-Descrimination Act of 1977 that's part of the constitution. In the end, this will be changed to allow for any citizen to run for office. The only one being excluded now is President... you can already run for everything else.

*nod* I thought this might be challenged one day.

But I guess we'd better go back to topic. ^^

I wonder what the Spanish constitution has to say about this. Is Bilbao's policy really legal in Spain? *curious*

Spanish constitution has no right to even touch the Basque Autonomous Policy considering they are run by their own government. If they do find a loophole it means they are loosing by far what is their biggest source of income for the country. (Basque Country)

@Arqui

Bavarians have their own language, too. Ask any German (or as the Bavarians would say "Prussian") outside of Bavaria
(And it might surprise you, but there is actually a political party in Bavaria that works on trying to turn Bavaria into a sovereign country...)

Selecting Basque players for differential treatment based on that characteristic can certainly be dubbed as racism.

But, as a football club Bilbao can sign and reject any players for any reason they would like so it really is a non-factor. If this was any other sort of business then it wouldn't be acceptable.

Le Samourai wrote:Arq I have a question.

How heavily is the policy linked with the separatist politics of the region, are they still aggressively pursuing autonomy or is it more to do with a celebration of Basque national pride more than anything?

Autonomy has already been reached long ago as only some groups reach for complete independence.

As for your question it is a heterogeneous mix of both which has essentially combined as a sole identity for foundation of Basque policy. The Euskadi respect their Spanish neighbour regions yet in some way display a sense of snobbery (which is too much at times) and conclusively want to maintain their own identity.

Even your Andalucian group to some extent strive for their further bond and strengthening of their own identity. In the end this is why the call our homeland "the land of countries within a countries"

Aside from you and I people don't seem to understand the Spanish mentality as a whole

barcelona playing a lot of local players = amazing, genius, every club should promote local talent

bilbao playing only local players = ZOMG RACIST!!!111!



sure it would get boring if all clubs did it but seriously...

why aren't we questioning the only-3-non-eu-players rule by the way? or serie a's 2 non-eu per transfer period? or the entire system of work permits, not just in football?

stop the politically correct bullshit please

How could it be racist if they have black players?



Clearly they don't discriminate against races.

BarrileteCosmico wrote:How could it be racist if they have black players?

Hopefully this isn't serious

che wrote:barcelona playing a lot of local players = amazing, genius, every club should promote local talent

bilbao playing only local players = ZOMG RACIST!!!111!



sure it would get boring if all clubs did it but seriously...

why aren't we questioning the only-3-non-eu-players rule by the way? or serie a's 2 non-eu per transfer period? or the entire system of work permits, not just in football?

stop the politically correct bullshit please

Why are you getting so defensive arq?
It really could be considered racism, but it shouldn't be

rwo power wrote:@Arqui

Bavarians have their own language, too. Ask any German (or as the Bavarians would say "Prussian") outside of Bavaria
(And it might surprise you, but there is actually a political party in Bavaria that works on trying to turn Bavaria into a sovereign country...)

No no RWO you have misunderstood me here.

You must understand Euskera (Basque native language) has absolutely no relation to Espanol in any sort of way. Prussian is still a part of the Germanic language (Austro-German) as it doesn't have such disparities as compared to Euskera. So in that sense it is harder to justify Bavarian independence.

And I'm also aware of the Bavarian movement for separation yet that is a relatively small group similar to Canada's Quebec group (who also aim for independence)

che wrote:barcelona playing a lot of local players = amazing, genius, every club should promote local talent

bilbao playing only local players = ZOMG RACIST!!!111!



sure it would get boring if all clubs did it but seriously...

why aren't we questioning the only-3-non-eu-players rule by the way? or serie a's 2 non-eu per transfer period? or the entire system of work permits, not just in football?

stop the politically correct bullshit please

Che my man. You have my respect

Luca wrote:

BarrileteCosmico wrote:How could it be racist if they have black players?

Hopefully this isn't serious

che wrote:barcelona playing a lot of local players = amazing, genius, every club should promote local talent

bilbao playing only local players = ZOMG RACIST!!!111!



sure it would get boring if all clubs did it but seriously...

why aren't we questioning the only-3-non-eu-players rule by the way? or serie a's 2 non-eu per transfer period? or the entire system of work permits, not just in football?

stop the politically correct bullshit please

Why are you getting so defensive arq?
It really could be considered racism, but it shouldn't be

Its not me Luca

so just because its football clubs can be racist...okay

Sorry arq, I guess I was looking at your username but quoted che

zizzle wrote:so just because its football clubs can be racist...okay

Football clubs are like a private business, they're allowed to sign and release players without hesitation under their own governance

che wrote:barcelona playing a lot of local players = amazing, genius, every club should promote local talent

bilbao playing only local players = ZOMG RACIST!!!111!



sure it would get boring if all clubs did it but seriously...

why aren't we questioning the only-3-non-eu-players rule by the way? or serie a's 2 non-eu per transfer period? or the entire system of work permits, not just in football?

stop the politically correct bullshit please

Where's the +1 when you need it ffs.