Re: Roman and Di Matteo ( What is Chelsea doing ) thread

[iNFINITY9910]

awww how cute, you all actually think most clubs give full control to the manager these days

fact is most club's have a panel consisting of probably 4 to 5 people with different roles to discuss transfers.

The manager has a say of course he does, it wont be full control but control none the less.

Gone are the days of the manager controlling everything from top to bottom at least in most cases.

I'm going to be hated in the Chelsea section for this lol

[MarkForrest17]

Di Matteo coached that style last season because he had no choice and it was the only way we could play to give us even a slight chance at winning the CL and he was proved right. I don't think playing like that is his preferred method but we seriously had no one that could make a play in our midfield. And we couldn't completely more than two passes in a row. I think David Luiz was our best passer in the competition last season.

We needed play makers and we are getting them. While we need a few other things like a winger or two and a DM who can pass as well, I still think we will be a better attacking team next year, and Di Matteo will have more faith in our players to have a more attacking mindset. There was just no reason to have that same faith last season.

[donttreadonred]

And to answer your question, Vibe, RDM played some good attractive football at WBA. He does know how to win in style. That said, when all is failing and plan A, B & C are not working, he uses defensive tactics. He used defensive tactics towards the tail end of his time at WBA in certain matches.

So in general, he knows how to use both brands of football.

I don't see how this is a problem.

Since when is getting sacked when you are in 16th place playing "good attractive football" and knowing "how to win with style"? he may have played attacking football, but winning with style?...
@ WestBrom
W: 7
L: 13
D: 5
Goal Difference : -17

I agree that he "played the way he had to" last season. However, he didn't really do much for Chelsea's league play. In fact, they actually dropped a place before all was said and done. (AVB had them in 5th. RDM lead them to the glory of 6th place.) Yes, they did great things in cup competitions, but that was due to the pragmatic approach you describe. When it comes to beating the teams they should AND taking results against the "big teams" (the base of good league play) he was mediocre at best.
@Chelsea (league play)
W: 5
L: 3
D: 3
Goal Difference: 4 (including a 6-1 result against QPR)

I simply don't think he's shown any reason to believe he's anything more than a good coach. Maybe he will this season, but the stats don't look promising.

[BarrileteCosmico]

Mourinho obviously chose to sign Sahin, given how many minutes he got....

[Blue Barrett]

And to answer your question, Vibe, RDM played some good attractive football at WBA. He does know how to win in style. That said, when all is failing and plan A, B & C are not working, he uses defensive tactics. He used defensive tactics towards the tail end of his time at WBA in certain matches.

So in general, he knows how to use both brands of football.

I don't see how this is a problem.

Since when is getting sacked when you are in 16th place playing "good attractive football" and knowing "how to win with style"? he may have played attacking football, but winning with style?...
@ WestBrom
W: 7
L: 13
D: 5
Goal Difference : -17

I agree that he "played the way he had to" last season. However, he didn't really do much for Chelsea's league play. In fact, they actually dropped a place before all was said and done. (AVB had them in 5th. RDM lead them to the glory of 6th place.) Yes, they did great things in cup competitions, but that was due to the pragmatic approach you describe. When it comes to beating the teams they should AND taking results against the "big teams" (the base of good league play) he was mediocre at best.
@Chelsea (league play)
W: 5
L: 3
D: 3
Goal Difference: 4 (including a 6-1 result against QPR)

I simply don't think he's shown any reason to believe he's anything more than a good coach. Maybe he will this season, but the stats don't look promising.

OBVIOUSLY he was sacked for a reason He wasn't winning towards the end and he lost his job. They actually had a very good run of result at one point where they beat United, Arsenal & Liverpool in one stretch IIRC. No point talking about if he was setting the league ablaze, the whole time when that obviously wasn't the case.

And please don't talk about league play. 2 of those losses came when the team had pretty much concluded that all hope was in the CL final(Newcastle & Liverpool losses). The only other loss in the league was against City. Its really strange to try to imply that AVB was better in the league than RDM. AVB wasn't better at ANYTHING.

Oh and btw, the only time he used defensive tactics were against Barca & Bayern. Why say in "cups" like he did it in the FA Cup as well?

[Great Leader Sprucenuce]

AVB was better in the league though the stats prove it.

You were 4th when he was sacked and you finished 6th, you can use the cup excuses all you want but fact is you finished lower than you were when RDM took over.

AVB would'nt have won the cups though.

In any case we all know why, the players refused to play for AVB when they played for RDM.

There's still massive question marks over both managers.

[Guest]

Chelsea employed the same tactics against Benfica as well, the away leg.

[Blue Barrett]

AVB was better in the league though the stats prove it.

You were 4th when he was sacked and you finished 6th, you can use the cup excuses all you want but fact is you finished lower than you were when RDM took over.

AVB would'nt have won the cups though.

In any case we all know why, the players refused to play for AVB when they played for RDM.

There's still massive question marks over both managers.

Wrong. We were 5th.

[donttreadonred]

OBVIOUSLY he was sacked for a reason He wasn't winning towards the end and he lost his job. They actually had a very good run of result at one point where they beat United, Arsenal & Liverpool in one stretch IIRC. No point talking about if he was setting the league ablaze, the whole time when that obviously wasn't the case.

And please don't talk about league play. 2 of those losses came when the team had pretty much concluded that all hope was in the CL final(Newcastle & Liverpool losses). The only other loss in the league was against City. Its really strange to try to imply that AVB was better in the league than RDM. AVB wasn't better at ANYTHING.

Oh and btw, the only time he used defensive tactics were against Barca & Bayern. Why say in "cups" like he did it in the FA Cup as well?

Alright. If you want to write off everything negative as being a lack of effort, be my guest. I'm not trying to say RDM is going to be an absolutely horrible coach. I'm trying to say that RDM hasn't done anything really outstanding, except for 3 matches in which he employed a VERY negative tactic. If you're completely comfortable with a manager whose claim to fame is based on 3 matches, then kudos to you.

Who knows, maybe RDM will flourish at Chelsea... If I had to guess, though, I would bet his appointment was more to please the supporters, who would've been upset by the perceived sacking of a CL winning manager. If he pulls a long win less streak, I would expect to see someone else on the touchline in the second half of the season.

Oh, and an FA Cup taunt... Seriously?

[Blue Barrett]

OBVIOUSLY he was sacked for a reason He wasn't winning towards the end and he lost his job. They actually had a very good run of result at one point where they beat United, Arsenal & Liverpool in one stretch IIRC. No point talking about if he was setting the league ablaze, the whole time when that obviously wasn't the case.

And please don't talk about league play. 2 of those losses came when the team had pretty much concluded that all hope was in the CL final(Newcastle & Liverpool losses). The only other loss in the league was against City. Its really strange to try to imply that AVB was better in the league than RDM. AVB wasn't better at ANYTHING.

Oh and btw, the only time he used defensive tactics were against Barca & Bayern. Why say in "cups" like he did it in the FA Cup as well?

Alright. If you want to write off everything negative as being a lack of effort, be my guest. I'm not trying to say RDM is going to be an absolutely horrible coach. I'm trying to say that RDM hasn't done anything really outstanding, except for 3 matches in which he employed a VERY negative tactic. If you're completely comfortable with a manager whose claim to fame is based on 3 matches, then kudos to you.

How about we talk about how you're basing your judgement based on only those 3 matches and seeing him as some negative agent? You're saying the only good thing he did was those 3 matches? I'm sorry, remind me how we got the chance to play Barca? Or even Benfica? How bad was the situation after the first leg against Napoli? That's right, we were down 3-1. Not 1-0. Not 2-0. Not 2-1. But 3-1. How many teams in CL history have come back from a 3-1 deficit to win a tie? Would AVB have pulled that off? Oh and may I also remind you that we had to play a 2nd leg away to the mighty Birmingham City after scrapping a 1-1 draw against them at Stamford Bridge. What were the chances of pulling that one of as well? Just as much of a chance as them knocking us out considering the state we were in.

I like how you also ignore the 5-1 thrashing of Spurs at Wembley and also the victory over Liverpool in the final. Apparently they're both insignificant matches.

Who knows, maybe RDM will flourish at Chelsea... If I had to guess, though, I would bet his appointment was more to please the supporters, who would've been upset by the perceived sacking of a CL winning manager. If he pulls a long win less streak, I would expect to see someone else on the touchline in the second half of the season.

Blimey! Its almost as if you(along with the many others who share your view) WANT him to fail just to prove your point. "If he pulls a long win less streak".....mind you, there's also a possibility of him pulling a long win streak. Nobody is expecting him to win the league this season and that includes Roman. I'm very sure if AVB had performed poorly but stil had us qualify for the CL, he would have kept his job. You're a Liverpool fan. You should know how important being in the CL is, don't you?

Look, I'm not saying he'll come in and sweep every trophy in his way or anything like that. I just wonder why a lot of you are tagging him a shit manager before the season even starts.

[donttreadonred]

@Barrettinator (I don't feel like quoting your entire post, because it's long and doesn't warrant repeating.)

You're obviously quite upset about how many of us (your words, not mine) view RDM. I don't know where you got the impression that I think he's purely a negative manager. I merely said that his claim to the position is based almost entirely on 3 matches where you admitted he played a very negative tactic. I'm sorry, I simply don't agree about the matches against Spurs and LFC, because both teams were self-destructing at that point. Specifically in the final, LFC did nothing of any interest until Carroll came on around 65-75 mins in. After that, momentum clearly shifted away from Chelsea. In addition, LFC had more possession, more shots, more shots on target, and more corners... We simply didn't take our chances. But I digress...

I apologize for winding you up (I assure you, that was not my intention), but I honestly disagree with your blind faith in RDM. I've said repeatedly that he may prove to be an inspired manager, so I can't understand why you're assuming I'm sitting here cackling like a mad scientist and plotting his demise. I promise you, I am not prematurely reveling in another man's despair. I'm merely expressing my belief (and backing it up with statistics and examples) that he has yet to prove truly worthy of the opportunity he is getting. You are correct in that I pointed out that a managerial change could happen if he has a prolonged win less streak. I only did so, because I believe that would be enough to see a change being made. Surely, you can agree that your club's recent history would suggest as much. I suppose I could have preceded it with, "If he goes on a prolonged unbeaten streak, he will most likely remain in his current position." However, that seems asinine and redundant to me.

In addition, I'm rather disappointed that you are trying to wind me up over Liverpool's defeat in the FA Cup final, our lack of CL football, etc. There's no need for that. This is a discussion about Chelsea's managerial situation next season, not LFC getting in its own way more times than not in the last 5 years. I am a Liverpool fan, and I'm quite proud of it. I can also admit when there are situations at the club that aren't going well. If you want to start a new thread about how LFC may not get into the CL spots next year and will be lucky to make EL again, how we've spent money on considerably over-priced British talents, or even our new manager (*In my best Jeremy Clarkson voice* Some say he left Reading by mutual consent...), you're more than welcome to. I will most likely stay away from the thread as it probably won't be terribly enjoyable for me to read. Consider that advice you might be well served to take on this thread.

[Blue Barrett]

^I'm sorry if I wound you up about Liverpool. That was really not my intention.

But fair enough, I get your point. We'll just have to wait and see how things pan out then.

[Onyx]

Long story short, Di Matteo was an underdog manager with Chelsea and used experienced players to win things.

Now he's no longer the underdog and will be using young players. Something AVB was going to do, until Chelsea sacked him.

[vizkosity]

if he fails to finish top 3 along with CL/europa, would he get fired ?

[Direxius]

Well if you look at Chelsea tactics from when Di Matteo took over and the signings they've made since,something does not compute.Chelsea's success with Di Matteo was largely due to the 180 degree spin in tactics,and seeing the new entourage in the blue shirt clearly indicates Chelsea are heading to a different approach in the coming season.These are the players you sign when you want to outplay your opponents,not close them off.What bothers me is that I wanna know whose idea this is...Is it Roman wishing for attractive football (which is more likely IMO) or did Di Matteo decide to change the winning formula and head over to unknown waters of possession football.I'm not familiar with his tactics at WBA,if someone could shine some light on that would be great...It would make sense if he played positive football at WBA,and opted for negative football at Chelsea because that was obviously what needed to be done seeing AVB's failures,but if he used negative football in WBA as well then I'm inclined to think Roman is making another mistake in going against his managers nature...

How much control does Di Matteo have over these transfers?

Well lets not be so narrow minded as to think that one can just go from a certain type of football to a different type of football without looking at the issue a bit more. It is a valid point that we are yet to see what Di Matteo can do in a situation where he is given tools to build some good, he was given a "wounded" team and led it through to victory, but i think we should give the man the benefit of a doubt and a bit of confidence, without losing a grip with reality though.

The old chelsea generation is almost dead in a way, and with it should go the style. Truth is that fans and clubs want to see positive entertaining football, and win, and to build a solid team you can't just play tough "negative" football, chelsea are thinking long term, buying relative young "positive" minded players, and if not the manager, then the board and the president would have done this, it is the only right step.

And anyways...there's always Pep Guardiola...

Lets just wait and see, what i can say is that chelsea is doing everything right atm, now its time for the manager to show his worth, and for the club and president to be reasonable with him and the team at that.

Lets not forget "negative" football, isnt always bad football, but its not a one sided story, winning teams have substance, what chelsea did in its situation last season was the only thing it could do.

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