Spain don't deserve to be called an "attacking" team ever again until VDB leaves

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Post by BarrileteCosmico Mon Jun 25, 2012 1:01 am

mtfootball wrote:What would the ideal lineup be?
Casillas
Arbeloa Ramos Pique Alba
Xavi Busquets Iniesta
Cazorla Llorente Pedro

Instantly better football guaranteed.

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Post by Babun Mon Jun 25, 2012 1:21 am

BarrileteCosmico wrote:A lot has been said about France's lack of anything resembling a desire to score, let alone win, but I ended up thinking far less of Spain than of France. Spain has players that believe in attacking football, yet they are the most boring national team champion. Ever. Judging by the approach VDB is taking against France, watching Greece in 2004 was far more exciting. It offends me when people compare their style of play to that of Barcelona's. Yes, the parallels are there, but at Barca they at least try to do something with the ball. VDB's decision to play with a double pivot and no forwards has effectively killed any sort of entertainment value. There's simply no reason for it.

I am not damning possession football, which is by far the most efficient philosophy, but VDB's incarnation of it. Cesc is no Messi, and had Pedro and Villa being fit and in top form Barca would have never attempted playing with only midfielders. When Barca's done it, it was out of necessity. When Spain does it, I'm not quite sure what the cause is. This is precisely what makes it so frustrating: they could be so much better. In any case, if this is the way they plan to win the Euros, then I am actively stopping my support towards them.


//rant
Alf saw the light :bow:
Bring Aragones back eco smile I would also add than Biscuit is overrated. Senna was thrice the play he is.
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Post by Le Samourai Mon Jun 25, 2012 1:25 am

Don't worry guys, we're just milking the old guard for another title, letting them do what they do best.

Soon enough

--------------Busquets----------
---Thiago--------------Iniesta---
--Isco--------Ander-----------Munain
-----------One Lucky Mofo----------

is the future.

Xavi will not kill our dreams of attacking football forever, he will simply postpone them until Thander is ready to take over.

In the meantime, the boring football you watch is a small sacrifice for the epic chess match that will be Germany-Spain should both sides hold up their end of the bargain.

And on a final note, stop asking for Xabi to be dropped , clearly it's not happening he has some sort of Zanetti genes, he is going to be somewhere around the 11 forever.


Last edited by Le Samourai on Mon Jun 25, 2012 1:34 am; edited 2 times in total
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Post by Tifoso Romanista Mon Jun 25, 2012 1:29 am



The term Total Football is often misused to describe any attacking football. In its purest form, Total Football is proactive, not counter-attacking, based on positional interchange and hard pressing.[8] FC Barcelona, Athletic Club de Bilbao and the Spanish national team play a style of football known as "tiki-taka" that has its roots in Total Football. What later would become known as tiki-taka developed and evolved from the football style propagated by Cruyff during his tenure as manager of Barcelona from 1988 to 1995,[9] This developed and upgraded system has more recently been employed by the Euro 2008 and 2010 World Cup-winning Spanish teams of Luis Aragonés and Vicente del Bosque; as well as the by the FC Barcelona under manager Pep Guardiola. Tiki-taka differs from Total Football in that it puts greater emphasis on ball circulation and passing rather than on positional interchange of players[10] The style has also been used by Arsenal under the leadership of manager Arsène Wenger, with defensive midfielders rushing forward to support attacks, and strikers dropping back for extra creativity or defensive shielding. Arsenal's centre backs have also found themselves in goal scoring positions in open play with midfielders dropping back to support the defence.

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Post by CBarca Mon Jun 25, 2012 1:36 am

Zealous wrote:That's because they had Senna imo he really covered for a lot of the dirty work which allowed others to flourish.

Anyway Alonso is one of the best CM's in the world. Only a moron wouldn't start him.

Alonso is great but you can't deny him playing really kills off the ability for both Xavi and Iniesta to play in the positions that best suit them. Not to mention Busquets is so much worse playing next to him.

Alonso is a fantastic individual but I think this is a case of playing a very talented player that shouldn't be because he destroys the ability of Spain to play at the sum of it's parts (AKA the brilliant midfield of Xaviestquets). Of course I'm biased as well but the point stands.

And yeah, I agree BC...I used to like watching Spain play but this is just ...zzzzzzzzzzz... I mean, they get a goal ahead and simply stop attacking. It's near as bad as parking the bus.

That being said I'd hate to see Portugal in the finals so I'm going to have to go with Spain on this one and then hope they lose in the finals (unless there is a dramatic change in playstyle...and there won't be)

Casillas
Arbeloa Ramos Pique Alba
Xavi Busquets Iniesta
Cazorla Llorente Pedro

Oooooohhh that lineup could play some sexy football...
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Post by Le Samourai Mon Jun 25, 2012 1:46 am

It seems a bit unfair to drop the one who actually shows up for Espana and reward the one who is a shadow of himself for Espana with a starting spot.

And I'm tried of Alosno bothers him, forget that, 2 years he's played with Alonso, at some point great players adapt or they at least try to....complain all you like about Xabi, he's done everything possible to develop his game in a way he can actually make a impact when playing for us, even though his role has been greatly reduced by Xavi, that's not something I can say for Busquets.

For all i care Busquets can be dropped for Martinez, Xavi gets his forwad passing option and Alonso gets his extra cover.
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Post by CBarca Mon Jun 25, 2012 1:57 am

And it's unfair to label Alonso as the one that shows up whilst Xaviestquets don't seeing as him playing destroys any decent system where all three can play to the best of their ability.

I'd rather sacrifice one good one to have a well oiled, tried and true master trio in the midfield, instead of putting in a great CM who kills the system.

I would talk about it more, but this has been- like Pirlo vs Xavi- done to death.
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Post by BarrileteCosmico Mon Jun 25, 2012 1:59 am

It's not about the names, it's about the formation. I personally believe Xabi would get killed as a lone DM, so that's why I went for the tried, tested and proven busixaviesta. But if you want to drop him it doesn't really make a difference, as VDB will never drop the double pivot.
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Post by Le Samourai Mon Jun 25, 2012 2:11 am

---Javi-Xabi-

Is more functional than what we have currently because Javi makes forwad runs giving Xavi his advanced passing option and provides similar defensive cover which doesn't clash with Xabi.

No conflicts in recycling possession.

So that's where you're wrong, it is about names and club affiliations, Busquets got into the team because of those, if the double pivot is so important then we have people to make it work but they're not being used because a starter for Barca won't be dropped for a lesser but more functional player.

Trust me I get where everyone is coming from here, but it's a very one-sided view, you're portraying Xabi as a cancer when the reality is that his game is affected just as much as their's by the setup but he's the one trying to adapt....the Xavi (rightfully so) and Busquets aren't.

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Post by Great Leader Sprucenuce Mon Jun 25, 2012 2:15 am

Xabi is'nt a cancer, he's a wonderful player..... I just consider Alonso, Xavi, Silva, Iniesta is overkill and feel the balance of the side would be better if one of them were to be dropped.

Also ThiaGOAT is being trained to be like Xavi so Spain will be boring for ever Twisted Evil
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Post by Le Samourai Mon Jun 25, 2012 2:22 am

Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:Xabi is'nt a cancer, he's a wonderful player..... I just consider Alonso, Xavi, Silva, Iniesta is overkill and feel the balance of the side would be better if one of them were to be dropped.

Also ThiaGOAT is being trained to be like Xavi so Spain will be boring for ever Twisted Evil

If that is the case he can GTFO , Cesc will be Xavis heir Spain don't deserve to be called an "attacking" team ever again until VDB leaves - Page 2 Le_210

I think so as well, why do you think I was complaining about how Pedro was being treated all season long? because I want Barca to succeed? lol....it's because this is the result.Ever since Silva started talking about Madrid / Barca favoritism , Pedro's spot became open...and when Pep decided not to play him, it was lost.

Perhaps Soldado and Llorente should take notes.

Blame someone for our football, i don't think there is anyone TBH, I think that's just how it turned out because it's our best chance to win, but if I know for sure Silva would not be in this team if Pedro played in any of those big games that Tello started.
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Post by BarrileteCosmico Mon Jun 25, 2012 2:37 am

Le Samourai wrote:So that's where you're wrong, it is about names and club affiliations, Busquets got into the team because of those, if the double pivot is so important then we have people to make it work but they're not being used because a starter for Barca won't be dropped for a lesser but more functional player.
No you're wrong. Del Bosque has a crush on Busquets like he was Irina Shaik, it has nothing to do with him being from Barca. Need I remind you that he said "If I could be reincarnated as a footballer, I would like to be like Busquets. He's the perfect footballer" 2 years ago? It's paranoid to see club allegiance having anything to do with squad selection.

Also, you propose to change Busi for Javi, but that still doesn't fix the problem, and part of the problem is the double pivot. Del Bosque has a squad many times better than the second closest competitor and is playing on the safe side.
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Post by LeSwagg James Mon Jun 25, 2012 6:27 am

I agree 100%..

Also back passes should be banned from football all together..
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Post by CBarca Mon Jun 25, 2012 6:32 am

BarrileteCosmico wrote:It's not about the names, it's about the formation. I personally believe Xabi would get killed as a lone DM, so that's why I went for the tried, tested and proven busixaviesta. But if you want to drop him it doesn't really make a difference, as VDB will never drop the double pivot.

A fair and true point that I would definitely agree with.

Also back passes should be banned from football all together..

What is this i don't even...I lol'd
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Post by harhar11 Mon Jun 25, 2012 11:45 am

This "backpass" from Xavi :bow:

Spain don't deserve to be called an "attacking" team ever again until VDB leaves - Page 2 Xavipass

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Post by Zealous Mon Jun 25, 2012 12:22 pm

Should football have a shot clock? hmm
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Post by harhar11 Mon Jun 25, 2012 12:29 pm

Zealous wrote:Should football have a shot clock? hmm

Then no one would score. If they could only have the ball for a certain amount of time, then the team that is defending would put 10 defenders in their own box until the the time has run out. It works for basketball because its easier to score..

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Post by Zealous Mon Jun 25, 2012 1:57 pm

I wasn't really serious with that idea Razz
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Post by billy_gr Mon Jun 25, 2012 2:22 pm

spain needs Raul.... pirat
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Post by messixaviesta Mon Jun 25, 2012 6:08 pm

Le Samourai wrote:Don't worry guys, we're just milking the old guard for another title, letting them do what they do best.

Soon enough

--------------Busquets----------
---Thiago--------------Iniesta---
--Isco--------Ander-----------Munain
-----------One Lucky Mofo----------

is the future.

Xavi will not kill our dreams of attacking football forever, he will simply postpone them until Thander is ready to take over.

In the meantime, the boring football you watch is a small sacrifice for the epic chess match that will be Germany-Spain should both sides hold up their end of the bargain.

And on a final note, stop asking for Xabi to be dropped , clearly it's not happening he has some sort of Zanetti genes, he is going to be somewhere around the 11 forever.

Awesome post !!! Thumbs up


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Post by BarrileteCosmico Wed Jun 27, 2012 10:31 pm

Notice how as soon as VDB plays forwards they start creating chances?

What a weird coincidence hmm
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Post by urbaNRoots Wed Jun 27, 2012 10:38 pm

They started creating when Cex came on Laughing

VDB :bow:
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Post by Onyx Wed Jun 27, 2012 10:39 pm

Pedro should be starting the final imo. He's an inside forward, his dribbling was good and he made a difference tonight.

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Post by harhar11 Wed Jun 27, 2012 10:42 pm

urbaNRoots wrote:They started creating when Pedro came on Laughing

VDB :bow:

fixd

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Post by Sushi Master Wed Jun 27, 2012 10:43 pm

:bow:

Thank you. That's my exact same opinion on the matter. Holy shit was the 2010 WC run a sleep fest.

I'd rather watch a team turtle it up for 90 mins than that borefest. At least you'd then get sudden changes in tempo.
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Post by TheRedStag Wed Jun 27, 2012 11:02 pm

Spain imo are the best defensive team in the world.
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