Breaking: Liverpool sack Brendan Rodgers

Blah, the BBC reporting he's staying, so that's that

Well, at least we will know whether the 'give them time' argument knows anything what it's talking about.

Confirmed.

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/confirmed-brendan-rodgers-stay-liverpool-9378954

Art Morte wrote:Blah, the BBC reporting he's staying, so that's that

Well, at least we will know whether the 'give them time' argument knows anything what it's talking about.

the 'give him time' argument about a manager is moot after 3 seasons tbh. That's an eternity for a coach to form a team.

Don't see how anything significantly different will happen next season. What is there now under Rodgers is what you'll get with him, more or less.

It won't Hans.

Does anybody truly believe we are going to leap frog Chelsea, City, Arsenal, or United when we are buying Milner, Ings, and Benteke to apparently 'improve'.

The guy will get sacked when we don't finish in top 4. So I ask again, why waste a year? If we are so adamant to write another year off, then the year could best be utilized by giving a new manager a free pass first season to build his team. And not to mention the goddam transfer funds that will just be wasted on players that might or might not (more likely) fit into the new managers plans.

by Red Alert on Thu May 17, 2012 12:27 am

Red Alert wrote:This club will be mid-table for a while, and if not, we'll turn into a Arsenal and be delighted every time we get in the top four. I for one can not understand why you sack a man who lives and breathes Liverpool, the only man to get us out of his "storm" whilst we were just approaching the sunlight. Absolute devasted. I'll be honest. I have never seen Dalglish manage before his second stint here, nor have I seen him play but he didn't really do too much wrong here. This he couldn't adapt to modern football is all farce, and our players should have a look at themselves, and their performances to see they just got a legend of the club sacked.

NESV better know what they'll be doing. They've basically just killed the relationship with the fans, and if we turn into a business club... I'll give up with football. Rafael Benitez is the only one that can save us right now. Although, I still honestly don't understand. If NESV wanted a young manager... why appoint Dalglish if you're just going to lose all faith after his first full season when the players gave up after the loss to Van Persie.

This leaves us with no DoF, no manager and people in our backroom staff missing at the start of our most important transfer season of the history of the club. That's not knee jerk either. That's how important this transfer window will be as it'll potentially either set us back even more behind the likes of Chelsea, Arsenal and both the Mancs leaving us a mid-table / Europa league side.

Absolute devasted.

Didn't re-read any of that, so if it doesn't make sense apologies.

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FSG confirmed to have no clue on football.

I wish our owners actually cared for the club. And didn't watch from across the globe, having to "meet" the manager at the end of the season or whatnot.

Why can't we get people more involved? People that know what's good for the club? Frustrated. Absolutely frustrated. Looking at the bigger picture, we won't be able to compete against the "top 4" for years. Rodgers may have this years "free pass" but City, Arsenal, United and Chelsea are just going to improve. Which happened last summer anyway. It's just going to get worse.

Have a clueless manager and he's being backed by people with no ambition probably leeching off that new TV deal, whatever they can do to leech $$$ from this club.

Oh, and giving this clown more power to our transfers? HE HAD THE FIRST AND FINAL SAY OF EVERYTHING ALREADY FFS.

Look at who we're being linked too. Ings, Benteke, Clyne. People refused to blame in the market in the past, and fail to see we're targeting the same "PL proven" players ffs.

Argh.

I'm giving up with this club until we get owners that genuinely know what's right and wrong for the club. Club is in a modern crisis.

El Cujo wrote:It's the right move...to keep Rodgers and give him one more season (or half season if it comes to that).

I'm sure you can't wait for us to fight for a 5th spot next season too. I am literally so happy for you right now.

Even if you're dissappointed and would have liked a new manager, I still think some of you need to keep their expectations in check and tone down the hyperbole, in my opinion.

Rodgers isn't 'clueless', if he were you would've fared worse. Sometimes it seems as though you think it couldn't be worse, it can. And it can't be denied last season did raise the bar higher, which is good as Liverpool must aim higher, but also an achievement of Rodgers which isn't to be taken for granted.

I think it's really tricky for a club like Liverpool, to be in a spot where you're off the very top teams in most areas yet try to push higher.
It's not easy to navigate, setbacks will happen with top players leaving and transfer options limited, both in availability (players that want to come) and doability (how much you can reasonably pay).
It consistently needs something extra to get ahead in a situation like this, and I too doubt Rodgers eventually provides that.
He's a good coach, which is shown in some of the interesting football you played, but I feel he's too much of a buffoon to be a top manager, in the sense he could push Liverpool higher than the circumstances suggest, through his performance as manager in spite of having a supposedly weaker squad etc.
Last season was a promise, but this season would have been his year to prove he can mitigate one of those inevitable setbacks (Suarez leaving) through teambuilding. I feel he did show that only very inconsistently.

That being said that's not easy to find, and to determine. It's not like firing Rodgers and getting anyone in is guaranteed to make you better.
He hasn't done a 'terrible' job by any measure, it comes down to how good a job you can realistically expect and hope for.

Just saying this because when I read here I feel much of the infighting is unnecessary. El Cujo might be too optimistic, but then in some regards his expectations are often more realistic and accurate.

Another thing, and I know I'm pushing this as it's a fantasy of mine

I still feel part of the reason Klopp takes a break is that he was made known your owners wouldn't fire Rodgers this summer just yet.
And paradoxically, I could see that he appreciates this decision and it would even reinforce and further the appeal managing Liverpool might have for Klopp, should the situation arise

What expectations? WE HAVE NO expectations/ambition with these people in charge. Playing in the Champions League should not be a hope, it should be the absolute minimum. We’re not Everton ffs.
They've already agreed to be lower than the rest of the top 4. And show no ambition on fighting them. Their competitors have been Spurs ffs.
Rodgers IS clueless at a top club though. Like you said he’s a buffoon. I saw this coming his second season. Telling 9 players to sit behind the ball and defend (where we still conceded something stupid like 50 goals) and let "SAS" do all the work has nothing to do with his ability as a manager. 3 years later there's no system in place. 3 years later the squad is massively dissembled. 3 years later he still doesn’t know how to improve the squad. 3 years later and we still have the same problems. 3 years later he’s managed to make the squad worse despite being heavily backed. 3 years later he’s pretty much lost the dressing room. I really can go on. He’s not Liverpool quality.
How could it be worse? Seriously tell me how. The Premier League is shocking. There’s literally no genuine quality team in this league. It’s the worst English league in almost 20 years. We’re playing like we’re still managed by Dalglish/Woy (who were both sacked) and show no signs of improvements. We’re already one foot behind the other clubs, believe me it won’t be long before they leap passed us for another decade or so because of stupid management.

Hans wrote:...

All, well most of it were good rationale. However, you need to consider few points as well.

#1. Would you be so rational if Munich were in the same situation?

#2. He is somewhat 'clueless'. Have you followed Liverpool this season? If you have, you must have noticed that the entire first-half is marked by some tactical errors. You may need 3-4 or may be even 7-8 games to sort out your tactics. But taking 25 games just to decide on the right formation or tactics is just ridiculous. If you don't call that 'clueless' then you have to call it rigidity and that's not good either.

#3. He kept playing Balotelli as lone forward for around 10 games. Again, 2-3 games alone would have sufficed to prove that he isn't fit for that role.

#4. His substitutions were awful too. Most of the time he left it too late to change things around and most of the time he made the wrong changes.

You don't have to be a world class manager to do these (#2-4) things. If you take these into account, he might he held responsible for this season's debacle.

If you were a regular in this section you will find that I have vouched for Rodgers (even in the darkest hours) and haven't called for his head after 'The Stoke'. But I'm genuinely worried about his capability (specially to learn quickly from mistakes).

Was Rodgers clueless when he took us to 2nd when nobody else expected it of us?

Rodgers is a big believer in team unity and growing together as a team. I am as well. I don't think that, unless you have a limitless budget and the ability to attract true "best in the world" type talent, Liverpool were ever in a position to just jump back into the top 4 especially with the competitiveness at the top now. This team needs stability and long term vision. FSG believe Rodgers has that, and we'll find out really this year if he can start bringing that vision to fruition.

What would be the benchmark for you, El Cujo, whether Rodgers is indeed achieving this, in the coming season?
What results/performances do you expect, what would be a sign for you to say he is not performing good enough?
What is the 'long term vision' exactly, and when is it supposed to be reached and what are the steps towards reaching it, in your estimation?

Cujo wrote:Rodgers is a big believer in team unity and growing together as a team.

You keep repeating this. But tell me,

#1. Is this team good enough to finish T4??? if not
#2. Which player is going to stick around if we keep finishing 5th, 6th, 7th??? in that case
#3. How this team is going to 'grow as a team'???

If we are stuck at this level, each year some player is going to leave after he had a break-through season.

More worried about RA eating the section alive through his every post throughout the season now

Hapless_Hans wrote:What would be the benchmark for you, El Cujo, whether Rodgers is indeed achieving this, in the coming season?

As long as he is going deep in the domestic cups that we're in (semi-finals at least assuming we don't face one of United, Arsenal, Chelsea or City early), makes a decent run in the Europa this year (ideally final 8 or better), and is at least competing for top 4 all season (doesn't necessarily need to finish there, but making it tight and playing well).

What results/performances do you expect, what would be a sign for you to say he is not performing good enough?

I think if by christmas there's a decent gap between 4th and us then I think that would be a big disappointment. Going out early in any of the other competitions as well would be very disappointing. I expect him to stick to his vision of playing flowing, attractive football but also getting results with it.

What is the 'long term vision' exactly, and when is it supposed to be reached and what are the steps towards reaching it, in your estimation?

Well the long term vision is, I would imagine, to have a team capable of being in the top 4 and challenging for the CL. To get there though since we don't have the financial means or the draw of other big teams I think that they're going to try and get there by having a young, talented team that grows together that they can, with time, add pieces here and there to fill gaps or add experience where needed. I mean if you look at the age of most of our key players you have Coutinho (22), Sterling (20), Henderson (24), Moreno (22), Sakho (25), Sturridge (25), Can (21) and then guys that could be expected to step up in the future, or be key players like Ibe (19), Markovic (21), Origi (20), Lovren (25), Ilori (22), Wisdom (22), Manquillo (21), Flanagan (22), etc.

I mean if you assume that most physical primes are between 26 and 29 (depending on mileage, even later) and experience is gained each further year you have a team that if allowed to grow and groomed properly can really become special with the right stop-gaps and plug-ins (Milner can easily be one of those guys).

So I guess where I'm going with this is that the long term vision is there, and it's already being implemented. Last year was a tough year for everyone with all the players that were out of form early, the reliance on youth, and the lack of managerial experience with a heavy workload (as well as integrating so many new players).

When all is said and done the players are in place at the right levels (and even into the academy which is quite stocked) for the long term goal to be achieved. The issue is going to be whether or not Rodgers can groom them and put them on the right path to be successful. Right now he needs to fill in those holes on the team where we don't have either a player that is experienced enough or reliable enough (midfield with Milner and a goal scorer to take Sturridge's place).

At least that's how I view it.

so basically Cujo will be happy with no T4 or trophies next season.

Good to know in advance

El Cujo wrote:
I think if by christmas there's a decent gap between 4th and us then I think that would be a big disappointment. Going out early in any of the other competitions as well would be very disappointing. I expect him to stick to his vision of playing flowing, attractive football but also getting results with it.

Let's say end of the year Liverpool is in a similar situation like end of last year (~30 points, 7th or 8th place, and not doing well in the EL group), would you want him to be replaced?

HEIL MEIN REDS wrote:More worried about RA eating the section alive through his every post throughout the season now

Agreed

Hapless_Hans wrote: Let's say end of the year Liverpool is in a similar situation like end of last year (~30 points, 7th or 8th place, and not doing well in the EL group), would you want him to be replaced?

Yes.

what will be even more funny though, if Rodgers starts poorly, see us linked with Klopp from first game and media slating FSG for sticking with Rodgers sad for us but fun for others !

I think he will start the next season good, take our hopes high and *bleep* it up when December comes

Fahim89 wrote:

HEIL MEIN REDS wrote:More worried about RA eating the section alive through his every post throughout the season now

Agreed

Stupid fat hobbits

Origi

He told Sky Sports News HQ: "I think Liverpool is a wonderful club that deserves to be at the top and to be honest with the players they have, with the quality they have, then they should be finishing at the top of the league.

he also knows how bad Brendan has been

HEIL MEIN REDS wrote:what will be even more funny though, if Rodgers starts poorly, see us linked with Klopp from first game and media slating FSG for sticking with Rodgers sad for us but fun for others !

I think he will start the next season good, take our hopes high and *bleep* it up when December comes

Rodgers always has better second halves than first halves.

El Cujo wrote:

HEIL MEIN REDS wrote:what will be even more funny though, if Rodgers starts poorly, see us linked with Klopp from first game and media slating FSG for sticking with Rodgers sad for us but fun for others !

I think he will start the next season good, take our hopes high and *bleep* it up when December comes

Rodgers always has better second halves than first halves.

iftikhar wrote:

El Cujo wrote:

HEIL MEIN REDS wrote:what will be even more funny though, if Rodgers starts poorly, see us linked with Klopp from first game and media slating FSG for sticking with Rodgers sad for us but fun for others !

I think he will start the next season good, take our hopes high and *bleep* it up when December comes

Rodgers always has better second halves than first halves.

I forgot the calendar went November, December, April.

Cujo wrote:I forgot the calendar went November, December, April.

Two miserable months and you still find reason to defend/ignore that?

I seriously dont care now. If Rodger starts poorly next season, i mean till november, including things like poor group stage performances in Europa and exit from FA Cup, he should be sacked. For me next season, top 4 and a cup both are needed if he wants to stay here longer.