Ukraine - Europe's last dictatorship (tm)

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Post by VivaStPauli Sun Apr 29, 2012 1:35 pm

Famously hot Ukrainian politician Julija Timoschenko (I would) has recently entered a hunger strike to protest against the conditions during her arrest. She is currently serving a jail term for being in the opposition, or as the ruling regime headed by olympic grade dickbag Janukowitsch calls it "corruption", and has apparently been mildly tortured.

The European leaders can't really be bothered to do anything against their valuable pipeline directly to Eastern European gas and oil, by which I mean valuable ally Ukraine. They're a member of the European Union despite shitting on anything the EU stands for and generally being happy campers when it comes to repressing freedom of speech, and populating modern-versions of Gulags for fun.

And now the guy who speaks out against them and wants our (ze German) chancellor Merkel off her fat, lardy ass and do something about it, is f*cking Uli Hoeneß of all people, Bayern president and professional mouthrunner, who is calling for Platini, the German Football Association, German NT players, and Germany in general, to speak out against Ukrainian assholery.

This is like the f*cking Chronicles of Riddick, when you need a guy like that to be your hero, your world is f*cked.

Last but not least, a pic of protesting opposition leader and former Ukrainian president, and reigning Miss World Politics Julija Timoschenko:
Ukraine - Europe's last dictatorship (tm) 4134157288
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Post by Grande_Milano Sun Apr 29, 2012 8:18 pm

The question not ''why is she sitting in the prison"
The question is ''why ONLY SHE is sitting''
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Post by BarrileteCosmico Sun Apr 29, 2012 8:26 pm

As a two week Bayern fan, all I can say is Uli :bow:

Ukraine - Europe's last dictatorship (tm) 1,h=343.bild


Last edited by BarrileteCosmico on Sun Apr 29, 2012 8:38 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Post by VivaStPauli Sun Apr 29, 2012 8:29 pm

At least our environmental protection minister is jumping on the "f*ck Janukowitsch"-bandwagon.


Last edited by VivaStPauli on Sun Apr 29, 2012 8:34 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : screwed up the only name in that post -.-)
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Post by VivaStPauli Sun Apr 29, 2012 8:33 pm

Grande_Milano wrote:The question not ''why is she sitting in the prison"
The question is ''why ONLY SHE is sitting''

I hope that's not the question, because it's grammatically ambivalent, but if I understood you correctly you're asking why she's the only one sitting in prison? Because she's not.

But she also happens to be the leader of the opposition, so her being jailed by autocrat, and lifetime member of the dumb c*ck club, Janukowitsch is kind of a large f*cking deal.
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Post by BarrileteCosmico Sun Apr 29, 2012 8:37 pm

Few questions:
What party does she represent? Where do they lean to?

How did she become imprisoned? Was there a trial? If so, was it transparent and fair?

Is Angela Merkel not acting because she is jealous?
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Post by Grande_Milano Sun Apr 29, 2012 8:50 pm

VivaStPauli wrote:
Grande_Milano wrote:The question not ''why is she sitting in the prison"
The question is ''why ONLY SHE is sitting''

I hope that's not the question, because it's grammatically ambivalent, but if I understood you correctly you're asking why she's the only one sitting in prison? Because she's not.

But she also happens to be the leader of the opposition, so her being jailed by autocrat, and lifetime member of the dumb c*ck club, Janukowitsch is kind of a large f*cking deal.


they are both pretty much the same. present leader Janukovitch and her both crooks. both been sentenced before, both hold weight in political arena.
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Post by VivaStPauli Sun Apr 29, 2012 8:54 pm

BarrileteCosmico wrote:Few questions:
What party does she represent? Where do they lean to?

She's the head of the Ukrainian "Fatherland Movement" party, if that's the correct translation. It's a centrist party, a bit like Blairs New Labour, or the German SPD under Schröder from 1998 to 2005. Tymoschenko herself is a bit more left-leaning than her party and, especially fiscally, is more of a Social Democrat.

How did she become imprisoned?

Was convicted of corruption, because she allegedly sold out her country to the Russians.

Was there a trial?

Yes. Sort of.

If so, was it transparent and fair?

Yes and no. It was transparent, in the way that everybody could see right through it. It was an obvious sham, there was no proper evidence, the charges are rather ridiculous (she got charged with corruption because of official contracts she signed as head of state with the Russians considering imports of gas and oil), the judges were set on "convict" and there was no fair or balanced media coverage.

So a big NO.

Is Angela Merkel not acting because she is jealous?

I don't think Angela Merkel cares about looks, and she certainly doesn't get jealous of idealism or convictions, since she doesn'T care about those either. But if the German electorate gets mad enough she will be forced to do, what she most fears in the world: act.
Merkel f*cking hates doing shit, it makes it harder for her to be re-elected, and she, frankly, doesn't want anything with leading Germany. She doesn't do much. She just wants to, you know, rule. It's not like she wants to pass any laws or change anything, or even work hard to keep it the same.
She just wants to be re-elected until she f*cking croaks, and she will try until we finally bury her.
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Post by VivaStPauli Sun Apr 29, 2012 8:56 pm

Grande_Milano wrote:
they are both pretty much the same. present leader Janukovitch and her both crooks. both been sentenced before, both hold weight in political arena.

That's half true. They're both certainly to be taken with a grain of salt, but Janukowitsch, Janukovitch, however you want to transcribe the name from cyrillic, certainly likes bashing in demonstrator's faces and censoring the media a LOT more than Tymoschenko ever did.

Of course she's a bit crooked, she's a Eastern European politician, or for that matter: politician.

But Janukowitsch is acutally a grade A asshole and proper human rights violator. She was just a bit of a populist, and there was never any evidence of voter fraud or anything else big like that when she came in power, while it*'s pretty much agreed upon among European international affairs experts that the votes were rigged as hell when Janukowitsch was "elected".
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Post by Grande_Milano Sun Apr 29, 2012 11:45 pm

VivaStPauli wrote:
Grande_Milano wrote:
they are both pretty much the same. present leader Janukovitch and her both crooks. both been sentenced before, both hold weight in political arena.

That's half true. They're both certainly to be taken with a grain of salt, but Janukowitsch, Janukovitch, however you want to transcribe the name from cyrillic, certainly likes bashing in demonstrator's faces and censoring the media a LOT more than Tymoschenko ever did.

Of course she's a bit crooked, she's a Eastern European politician, or for that matter: politician.

But Janukowitsch is acutally a grade A asshole and proper human rights violator. She was just a bit of a populist, and there was never any evidence of voter fraud or anything else big like that when she came in power, while it*'s pretty much agreed upon among European international affairs experts that the votes were rigged as hell when Janukowitsch was "elected".



I hoped, hoped you are not another ''liberal'', but you are No

''Human rights''


She was basicallly in charge of economics when she was a PM 2004-2008, in that period, her mafia goons raided tens of factories and businesses.

She was sentenced for stealing million of bucks, and spent only part of her sentence.

and you go on preaching about hr?

they are both alike
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Post by kiranr Mon Apr 30, 2012 12:10 pm

Grande_Milano wrote:



I hoped, hoped you are not another ''liberal'', but you are No

''Human rights''



What is wrong with being a liberal?
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Post by Grande_Milano Mon Apr 30, 2012 2:14 pm

kiranr wrote:
Grande_Milano wrote:



I hoped, hoped you are not another ''liberal'', but you are No

''Human rights''



What is wrong with being a liberal?


Modern day faschism/communism
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Post by kiranr Mon Apr 30, 2012 2:19 pm

Grande_Milano wrote:
kiranr wrote:

What is wrong with being a liberal?


Modern day faschism/communism

Shocked

How did you arrive at that?
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Post by Yuri Yukuv Mon Apr 30, 2012 2:25 pm

Grande_Milano wrote:
kiranr wrote:
Grande_Milano wrote:



I hoped, hoped you are not another ''liberal'', but you are No

''Human rights''



What is wrong with being a liberal?


Modern day faschism/communism

Grande what is your ideology? putin?
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Post by Grande_Milano Mon Apr 30, 2012 2:49 pm

i dont like ideologies/streams/religions.


kiranr:

1) The cult of political correctness closing down freedom of expression/speech
2) The inequality of rights aka minorities having more rights than local population
3) The destruction of socium via the exaggeration of the importance of individual


so on
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Post by VivaStPauli Mon Apr 30, 2012 11:29 pm

Grande_Milano wrote:I hoped, hoped you are not another ''liberal'', but you are No

No I am not, but I will be looking forward to your argument likening my policy preferrances to American liberalism.

''Human rights''

Putting human rights in quotation marks makes me want to punch you in the face, please don't take that personal, but it really does.


She was basicallly in charge of economics when she was a PM 2004-2008, in that period, her mafia goons raided tens of factories and businesses.

Source?

She was sentenced for stealing million of bucks, and spent only part of her sentence.

No.
She was entenced for "abuse of office" for her gas/oil contracts with Russia.
Which probably could've been improved, but were perfectly valid within the grand scheme of geostrategy.

and you go on preaching about hr?

No I don't. I go on "preaching" about throwing the opposition in jail. I don't care too much what that opposition has done if they are jailed because they're the opposition, and not because of individual merit, TBH.

they are both alike

In that they're both Ukrainian. Yes.
But they're very different in that one of them has the opposition beaten up and jailed, and the other hasn't. :vagi:
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Post by VivaStPauli Mon Apr 30, 2012 11:30 pm

Grande_Milano wrote:
Modern day faschism/communism

Explain. NOW. With words. Quickly. I'm serious. That's a huge claim. Back it up. Go go go.
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Post by VivaStPauli Mon Apr 30, 2012 11:33 pm

Grande_Milano wrote:i dont like ideologies/streams/religions.

I like this statement.

1) The cult of political correctness closing down freedom of expression/speech

I like this statement, yet fail to see the connection to the ongoing debate.

2) The inequality of rights aka minorities having more rights than local population

I want a definition of "local population", as well as a pointer as to what cases of this happening we're talking about, as in: what country, where, etc. - I'd also like a definition of "minority" as you use it, and TBH it would probably help if you came up with examples of "more rights", and where this has happened.
3) The destruction of socium via the exaggeration of the importance of individual
Aaah, so you're a communist! Didn't see that coming.
F*cking liberals!
:vagi:
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Post by Grande_Milano Tue May 01, 2012 4:18 pm

Awww.

Just gonna say that I know more because I have friends with relatives in high office in Ukraine, that are brewing in all this stuff Cool
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Post by Senor Penguin Tue May 01, 2012 5:14 pm

IIRC, Grande has thrown the 'liberal' accusation at me as well, even though I have never tried to hush someone for breaking political correctness, uttered a wish about minorities getting better rights than the "local population" (whatever that is) or tried to destroy the 'socium' in favor of exaggerated freedom for individuals.

Sucks that I'm not the only liberal around here ... !

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Post by Grande_Milano Tue May 01, 2012 5:22 pm

Dont derail the thread.

Facts are:

1) Timoshenko-crook, business raider, was sentenced before. Seen as a victim of repression. When she and former President-loyal to the West were stealing money from the ountry, nobody said anything, because they are ''loyal to the West'' Laughing

Reminds of allegiance to Saudi Arabia, Haiti, etc

2) Germany is extremely double standard, and viva too. Ukarine not part of the EU, and not entering anytime soon. I bet neither of German politicians will dare to say smth to ''Vlad'', whose country has more ties with EU than all these small FSU republics all together.

3) The mixing of politics and football is extremely bad for sports, even though its hard to separate them.
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Post by VivaStPauli Tue May 01, 2012 11:52 pm

Grande_Milano wrote:Awww.

Just gonna say that I know more because I have friends with relatives in high office in Ukraine, that are brewing in all this stuff Cool

Ah - so you're not gonna reply to any point I brought up. I'll take this post as your note of surrender, then. Well played. Better luck next controversy.
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Post by VivaStPauli Tue May 01, 2012 11:55 pm

Grande_Milano wrote:1) Timoshenko-crook, business raider, was sentenced before. Seen as a victim of repression. When she and former President-loyal to the West were stealing money from the ountry, nobody said anything, because they are ''loyal to the West'' Laughing

Reminds of allegiance to Saudi Arabia, Haiti, etc

Source?

2) Germany is extremely double standard, and viva too. Ukarine not part of the EU, and not entering anytime soon. I bet neither of German politicians will dare to say smth to ''Vlad'', whose country has more ties with EU than all these small FSU republics all together.

Wasn't arguing that Germany was perfect, so way to miss the point, mate. Two wrongs don't make a right.

3) The mixing of politics and football is extremely bad for sports, even though its hard to separate them.

I'd say it has no influence on sports. But if it is extremely bad, you'll have no problems to find a source for your claims, rihgt? :X
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Post by Grande_Milano Wed May 02, 2012 12:46 am

http://compromat.ru/page_10081.htm


there, tons of articles from various sources dating from 90s with more freedom expression to moderna days (articles to choose on right corner)

-a lot about her gas business in 90s, aka 1 billion dollars of gas sold illegaly
-was running a digital-piracy firm
-used to bribe eu representatives
-financial law breakage
-bribery
etc, etc, etc

Thats FSU for you, if you are rich here you 90 percent a crook, if you are politician and rich, you are 100 percent a crook


google translate it if interested



a link with photos from interpol site: she and her husband in the wanted list for fraud

http://compromat.ru/page_15939.htm
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