The Three Lions

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Post by Hapless_Hans Thu Jun 19, 2014 10:57 pm

Dnmac4 wrote:
It's not a coincidence NONE OF THEM will play in a league outside of the EPL. In fact has anyone seen any of these players do anything outside of playing for there EPL teams?


Not quite true. Barkley will play in the Bundesliga soon.

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Post by Onyx Thu Jun 19, 2014 10:59 pm

The likes of Barkley, Sterling etc are good and have potential, but they don't have elite potential or anything. Right now imo they won't be better than Gerrard, Lampard etc. However the upcoming generation are much better technically and being technically better matters a lot. Hodgson will most likely be sacked and if the FA are competent, they'll appoint a foreign manager.

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Post by Great Leader Sprucenuce Thu Jun 19, 2014 11:01 pm

Media was a clear undoing this time.

Performance and set up was fine against Italy, but nooooooooooooooo we have to play Rooney behind the striker because the media say so.

F bunch of bullshit.
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Post by DeletedUser#1 Thu Jun 19, 2014 11:05 pm

Yohan Modric wrote:The likes of Barkley, Sterling etc are good and have potential, but they don't have elite potential or anything. Right now imo they won't be better than Gerrard, Lampard etc. However the upcoming generation are much better technically and being technically better matters a lot. Hodgson will most likely be sacked and if the FA are competent, they'll appoint a foreign manager.


Like Capello > :?? hmm

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Post by RealGunner Thu Jun 19, 2014 11:06 pm

Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:Media was a clear undoing this time.

Performance and set up was fine against Italy, but nooooooooooooooo we have to play Rooney behind the striker because the media say so.

F bunch of bullshit.


+1
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Post by Arquitecto Thu Jun 19, 2014 11:08 pm

Roy Hodgson's time IS and SHOULD be up as you all know my scathing views on him as an individual and person.

Yet this should not digress from the fact that his tenure was actually a progressive cycle for England (even if it could have been more astute with another) and that is provided a tangible transition point for the younger talents to close the gap with the stars in their final embers. Players have improved as a result, talent has been honed and much much experience has been acknowledged to which cannot be ignored just due to a Luis Suarez brace.

Bring another manager in the format who would know the players well and what is needed to have them succeed since English players require a different catered solution.

Talent still remains, use it better.
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Post by Onyx Thu Jun 19, 2014 11:09 pm

Capello was an old manager and didn't really change much. England need someone younger, fresh and in sync with modern football.

Someone like Klopp.

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Post by RealGunner Thu Jun 19, 2014 11:10 pm

Yohan Modric wrote:The likes of Barkley, Sterling etc are good and have potential, but they don't have elite potential or anything. Right now imo they won't be better than Gerrard, Lampard etc. However the upcoming generation are much better technically and being technically better matters a lot. Hodgson will most likely be sacked and if the FA are competent, they'll appoint a foreign manager.


Gerrard and Lampard have done nothing noteworthy for England. It doesn't matter if any player surpass them or not. Carrick would have done a better job at DM, but is he better than Gerrard or Lampard? don't think so.

They don't NEED to surpass the likes of Lampards and Scholes. Chile destroyed Spain with players from Nottingham Forest and Cardiff. You don't need 11 elite players to do well in a tournament.

You are right about the manager though. We have wasted our generations with the wrong managers. Steve Mclaren was a mistake. Sven was a mistake. Capello was a mistake. Roy is a mistake.

I don't know if we will ever get a manager to take us somewhere. I hope we do but I can't see it anytime soon.
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Post by Jay29 Thu Jun 19, 2014 11:17 pm

It has to be a foreign manager next time because none of the other English managers are even close to being up to it. Hodgson was a sensible choice for the pile of crap we had going into Euro 2012, but now there's a new generation coming through you need a manager who has a plan as to how to extract the best from that generation and I can't see any English manager being able to do that right now.

I mean, let's just look at our options:

Harry Redknapp - Classic 4-4-2, attacking football, decent motivator, but tactically poor and not flexible enough. Also too attached to the old generation.

Alan Pardew - Negative, reactive, makes poor team selections, too reliant on form players to carry his teams.

Steve McClaren - No chance the FA gives him another go.

...that's it. Extend it to British managers:

Tony Pulis - builds defensively solid teams, but doesn't have a clue about how to build a progressive, attacking side.

David Moyes - Not proactive enough, has no offensive plan.

It's still not looking good. So yeah, time to go foreign again, and it has to be someone more positive than Eriksson and Capello.

As for the players - international football isn't about having a golden generation of talent and putting several "world class" players in the side. It's about having a cohesive unit of players who carry out a gameplan, even it means leaving out one or two of your more talented players.

EDIT: Just heard this rant from Chris Waddle, of all people, and was shocked at how much sense he was making:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p02191f7

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Post by BarrileteCosmico Thu Jun 19, 2014 11:24 pm

Dnmac4 wrote:
It's not a coincidence NONE OF THEM will play in a league outside of the EPL. In fact has anyone seen any of these players do anything outside of playing for there EPL teams?
I think this has more to do with English players being overvalued (not overrated) by the market because English teams play ridiculous prices for them. Other clubs in other leagues look at the prices average English players go for and figure they can get better bang for their buck investing elsewhere. Additionally English players are notoriously bad at adapting to other countries, which is an additional hurdle.
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Post by Dnmac4 Thu Jun 19, 2014 11:25 pm

I'd be shocked to see that.

I mean if he were to go which again I still don't think will happen you know it's not going to be a transfer it would be a loan.

And come to think of it, you don't ever see them go out on loan to another league, Once in a blue moon maybe.
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Post by Onyx Thu Jun 19, 2014 11:28 pm

So now that it's established that England need a foreign manager, who are the best candidates?


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Post by Dnmac4 Thu Jun 19, 2014 11:30 pm

BarrileteCosmico wrote:
Dnmac4 wrote:
It's not a coincidence NONE OF THEM will play in a league outside of the EPL. In fact has anyone seen any of these players do anything outside of playing for there EPL teams?
I think this has more to do with English players being overvalued (not overrated) by the market because English teams play ridiculous prices for them. Other clubs in other leagues look at the prices average English players go for and figure they can get better bang for their buck investing elsewhere. Additionally English players are notoriously bad at adapting to other countries, which is an additional hurdle.


I completely agree but but a loan would be free and again you really don't see that much at all either.

I mean if ALL of your players are notoriously bad at adapting to other countries why would anyone think they are going to go live in another country for a month and play well in a tournament against better players.

Especially when I saw these people saying there were going to beat Uruguay in basically a home game for Uruguay.

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Post by guest_07 Thu Jun 19, 2014 11:44 pm

don't be sad, at least rooney the superstar scored his 1st wc goal

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Post by Dnmac4 Thu Jun 19, 2014 11:48 pm

Guys, after a while it's not the managers it's the players.

All of those managers are qualified to coach a national team which BTW is one of the easiest jobs in football. (look at Scolari, he didn't even last a season at a club side)

You can't just keep listing all of the managers and put it on them. The only manager I think would make a huge difference is Mourinho even though I hate him because he has a track record of changing players mentalities into tough hard nosed teams which England is so far away from it's down right scary.
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Post by McAgger Thu Jun 19, 2014 11:56 pm

What the *bleep* did you guys expect?

Woy basically played a goddam 4-2-4. How many times has every single Liverpool supporter said that Gerrard is shit in a double pivot. Gerrard is not a DM. Gerrard can do the job for Liverpool because he's got two other players in midfield doing the dirty work for him. Woy needs to be booted so *bleep* hard. In fact, he should banished from the UK.

Stevie's gonna retire after Costa Rica, thank god. ENgland should just groom the youngsters for the Euros for the next two years. Rooney should also never ever be called up again. And if he is called up then as a back up to Sturridge. SHould never start in a million years.

And the less said about Welbeck the better.
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Post by Lex Thu Jun 19, 2014 11:59 pm

Joe Hart "we were the better team for most of the game, even being 1-0 down"

 drunken 
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Post by RealGunner Fri Jun 20, 2014 12:05 am

GoonerJay29 wrote:
EDIT: Just heard this rant from Chris Waddle, of all people, and was shocked at how much sense he was making:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p02191f7


That's amazing. Spot on.
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Post by Onyx Fri Jun 20, 2014 12:06 am

England need a DM imo to partner Wilshere. Any good young DM's? hmm

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Post by RealGunner Fri Jun 20, 2014 12:07 am

Yohan Modric wrote:England need a DM imo to partner Wilshere. Any good young DM's? hmm


Nope.
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Post by Onyx Fri Jun 20, 2014 12:08 am

How good is Chalobah?

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Post by DeletedUser#1 Fri Jun 20, 2014 12:09 am

Yohan Modric wrote:England need a DM imo to partner Wilshere. Any good young DM's? hmm


Wilshere has gone backwards for 3 years in a row now. He has absolutely everything to prove himself. Every single spot is available for grabs.

He didn't do himself any favours vs. Italy when his stand-out contribution was THAT PASS back which went out in England's half Laughing

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Post by RealGunner Fri Jun 20, 2014 12:10 am

Was excellent at Watford where I watched him and looks like he has the talent, but it's better to judge him when he plays at a higher level.
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Post by izzy Fri Jun 20, 2014 12:11 am

Yohan Modric wrote:How good is Chalobah?


Laughing

Are you kidding me? Way too early to be throwing his name into the mix. Chelsea will send him on loan again next season as well.
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Post by Magricos Fri Jun 20, 2014 12:12 am

RealGunner wrote:
Yohan Modric wrote:The likes of Barkley, Sterling etc are good and have potential, but they don't have elite potential or anything. Right now imo they won't be better than Gerrard, Lampard etc. However the upcoming generation are much better technically and being technically better matters a lot. Hodgson will most likely be sacked and if the FA are competent, they'll appoint a foreign manager.


Gerrard and Lampard have done nothing noteworthy for England. It doesn't matter if any player surpass them or not. Carrick would have done a better job at DM, but is he better than Gerrard or Lampard? don't think so.

They don't NEED to surpass the likes of Lampards and Scholes. Chile destroyed Spain with players from Nottingham Forest and Cardiff. You don't need 11 elite players to do well in a tournament.

You are right about the manager though. We have wasted our generations with the wrong managers. Steve Mclaren was a mistake. Sven was a mistake. Capello was a mistake. Roy is a mistake.

I don't know if we will ever get a manager to take us somewhere. I hope we do but I can't see it anytime soon.


Maybe the players should get some blame too.

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Post by RealGunner Fri Jun 20, 2014 12:14 am

Natalie Portman wrote:
Yohan Modric wrote:England need a DM imo to partner Wilshere. Any good young DM's? hmm


Wilshere has gone backwards for 3 years in a row now. He has absolutely everything to prove himself. Every single spot is available for grabs.

He didn't do himself any favours vs. Italy when his stand-out contribution was THAT PASS back which went out in England's half Laughing


A fit and on form Wilshere will be an undisputed starter. He was out for 3 months before the WC and played 30 minutes at best before the WC. Obviously he wasn't going to perform. He is very much like Riquelme. He is pretty bad when he isn't fully fit but there is no doubt he is the future of England in midfield.

I don't think he has gone backwards, just hasn't gone forward either. Hopefully this is the season where he stays fit and proves the critics wrong.
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