The Three Lions

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Post by RealGunner Fri Jun 20, 2014 12:14 am

Natalie Portman wrote:
Yohan Modric wrote:England need a DM imo to partner Wilshere. Any good young DM's? hmm


Wilshere has gone backwards for 3 years in a row now. He has absolutely everything to prove himself. Every single spot is available for grabs.

He didn't do himself any favours vs. Italy when his stand-out contribution was THAT PASS back which went out in England's half Laughing


A fit and on form Wilshere will be an undisputed starter. He was out for 3 months before the WC and played 30 minutes at best before the WC. Obviously he wasn't going to perform. He is very much like Riquelme. He is pretty bad when he isn't fully fit but there is no doubt he is the future of England in midfield.

I don't think he has gone backwards, just hasn't gone forward either. Hopefully this is the season where he stays fit and proves the critics wrong.

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Post by RealGunner Fri Jun 20, 2014 12:15 am

Magricos wrote:
RealGunner wrote:
Yohan Modric wrote:The likes of Barkley, Sterling etc are good and have potential, but they don't have elite potential or anything. Right now imo they won't be better than Gerrard, Lampard etc. However the upcoming generation are much better technically and being technically better matters a lot. Hodgson will most likely be sacked and if the FA are competent, they'll appoint a foreign manager.


Gerrard and Lampard have done nothing noteworthy for England. It doesn't matter if any player surpass them or not. Carrick would have done a better job at DM, but is he better than Gerrard or Lampard? don't think so.

They don't NEED to surpass the likes of Lampards and Scholes. Chile destroyed Spain with players from Nottingham Forest and Cardiff. You don't need 11 elite players to do well in a tournament.

You are right about the manager though. We have wasted our generations with the wrong managers. Steve Mclaren was a mistake. Sven was a mistake. Capello was a mistake. Roy is a mistake.

I don't know if we will ever get a manager to take us somewhere. I hope we do but I can't see it anytime soon.


Maybe the players should get some blame too.


Have blamed them enough times Smile
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Post by Peccadillo Fri Jun 20, 2014 12:16 am

anyone who feels like this match justified their opinions of how England played against Italy should be shot.

Poor performance. Johnson was terrible, despite his assist... anyway cbf right now.
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Post by Lex Fri Jun 20, 2014 12:22 am

Can't do any worse than Gerrard
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Post by RED Fri Jun 20, 2014 12:23 am

McAgger wrote:What the *bleep* did you guys expect?

Woy basically played a goddam 4-2-4. How many times has every single Liverpool supporter said that Gerrard is shit in a double pivot. Gerrard is not a DM. Gerrard can do the job for Liverpool because he's got two other players in midfield doing the dirty work for him. Woy needs to be booted so *bleep* hard. In fact, he should banished from the UK.

Stevie's gonna retire after Costa Rica, thank god. ENgland should just groom the youngsters for the Euros for the next two years. Rooney should also never ever be called up again. And if he is called up then as a back up to Sturridge. SHould never start in a million years.

And the less said about Welbeck the better.


Yeah target united players why don't you, despite the fact every liverpool player has embarrassed themselves in a england shirt. Only sterling has been ok.

Gerrard - past it.

Henderson- not good enough

Sterling - was good v italy, but inneffective today

Sturridge- was poor today.

Johnson- apart from the assist, has looked clueless and doesn't offer defensively and is poor offensively.

Rooney has provided an assist and goal so far for england and was england's best player today.

Welbeck has been good for england too.

I had to respond to you since that post of yours was too biased
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Post by Robespierre Fri Jun 20, 2014 12:36 am

In Italy most ppl , or rather all those with whom I spoke about England, don't understand why Hodgson " snubbed Wilshere  and because he is not a stater in this England . Few followed England before of this WC and so many thought he was a sure stater, he is very rated here, well, i think it is normal..

Altnough I have a bad consideration about Hodgson gained also for his Inter experience ( despite  results not so bad ) , Wilshere never played the last 2- 3 monts so I don't know .. it is not a scandal

Rather I wonder if it was a good idea to bench Lallana for Wellbeck considering also the great moment of Southampton player and his creativeness
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Post by RealGunner Fri Jun 20, 2014 12:45 am

Robespierre wrote:In Italy most ppl , or rather all those with whom I spoke about England, don't understand why Hodgson " snubbed Wilshere  and because he is not a stater in this England . Few followed England before of this WC and so many thought he was a sure stater, he is very rated here, well, i think it is normal..

Altnough I have a bad consideration about Hodgson gained also for his Inter experience ( despite  results not so bad ) , Wilshere never played the last 2- 3 monts so I don't know .. it is not a scandal

Rather I wonder if it was a good idea to bench Lallana for Wellbeck considering also the great moment of Southampton player and his creativeness


Yea Wilshere is in bad form atm. He never performs well when he rusty, and it was ok if he didn't start.

But it doesn't make sense that Lallana who started every Pre-World Cup friendly and looked good was benched for both of England's matches. Against Italy, Welbeck was helpful in defensive work but tonight, we needed to win and Lallana would have been a good choice because he is a creator.

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Post by Dnmac4 Fri Jun 20, 2014 12:46 am

Peccadillo wrote:anyone who feels like this match justified their opinions of how England played against Italy should be shot.

Poor performance. Johnson was terrible, despite his assist... anyway cbf right now.


Oh yes we know, this game proves you were right.  I'm sure that's how things work in your little world.

These quotes from you were right and we were wrong.

Actually I personally think England did a solid job of keeping Pirlo quiet.
-Your Quote

HE only killed your team and dominated the midfield but your right, you kept him quiet.

You are deluding yourself if you think that Italy dominated that game. Yes they did what many of us (including England fans) expected might happen, but the game was quite evenly matched.
-Your Quote

Italy only set a World cup record in passing percentage, were better at almost every position, destroyed your flanks and tired your team out to a point where you could barely run after the 70th minute.

But you're right again, it was very even.
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Post by Lord Awesome Fri Jun 20, 2014 1:23 am

Why is everyone saying England played badly vs Uruguay?

First off, this game was winnable for both sides just like Italy vs England. What brought this England team down today? Suarez. Probably one of the best Forwards of our time currently. Plus this Uruguay isn't the same Uruguay that played against Costa Rica. This Uruguay looks more like the Uruguay that won that Copa America in 2011 and not the empty shell of them that we saw against Costa Rica. Also, look at the the teams England's lost to, Uruguay & Italy. Pushover teams? Not historically nor currently.

And Rooney, my word he played well. Don't care about what club jersey you wear but the man actually gave face to this England team today. They're not out yet.


Last edited by Lord Awesome on Fri Jun 20, 2014 2:22 am; edited 1 time in total
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Post by Onyx Fri Jun 20, 2014 1:28 am

Based on recent performances, who should definitely be starting in the future?

Hart
Cahill
Sterling
Sturridge

Those 4?

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Post by McAgger Fri Jun 20, 2014 1:31 am

Sterling, Ox, Sturridge, Cahill are the only 4 that I would say should be absolute sure starters for England in the upcoming months.
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Post by RealGunner Fri Jun 20, 2014 1:33 am

Same. And of course Walcott.
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Post by Onyx Fri Jun 20, 2014 1:36 am

------------Sturridge
---Sterling---Barkley----Ox
---------Wilshere---DM

hmm

Also get a coach in who will have a proper style when defending. You either press properly or sit back. Not just randomly defend.

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Post by Dante Fri Jun 20, 2014 1:38 am

Dnmac4 is obviously right , well ; for Italy being superior against England. They were not on par , no . Italy were clearly the better team on the night . Whatever someone's opinion of the game was , that was the case.

But with a few words and in general terms , he is extremely harsh against England . Losing to Italy and Uruguay like Awesome said , is nothing to be ashamed of , or describe as a total failure . Plus , they never ridiculed themselves , quite the opposite actually , they did show positive signs , between their issues obviously..

They probably won't make it out of the group stages , but if you ask me , most saw that even before the WC begun. The Italy game perhaps instiled hope and expectations for England , i wouldn't call that hype ffs , but it was never meant to be an easy group in the first place. Holland is getting hyped after destroying Spain , England's wasn't hype , rather positive thinking , regardless of the results.
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Post by B-Mac Fri Jun 20, 2014 2:18 am

just finished watching the game, didn't see score waited till i finished work to watch it.....

Gerrard is bloody cursed jesus christ
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Post by B-Mac Fri Jun 20, 2014 2:19 am

Gerrard is bloody cursed...the slip, then plays an offside Suarez in on goal to win it :facepalm: ffs
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Post by Peccadillo Fri Jun 20, 2014 2:24 am

@ Dnmac.. how does this result disprove on my opinions of Englands performance against Italy? How does this result change anything from the Italy game? Really don't understand.. I stand by every comment you have quoted me saying.

@ Dante.. I never said Italy weren't the better team. I said to say Italy dominates England is a gross exaggeration, and I stand by it.

As for the fact England shouldn't feel dissapointed about this game.. Sorry but no disrespect to Uruguay, but really they are a team with two amazing strikers in Cavani and Suarez, better players than any in England.. but other than that, not a lot going for them.

After the first 5 minutes I immediately knew this was not the same England that played Italy. We looked nervy as hell with stray passes and completely unwilling to take defenders on.

Uruguay pressed hard and played dirty.. and England allowed it. The ref certainly didn't do us any favours - let Uruguay get away a lot I felt.. I can't believe Pereira went the whole game without getting booked - he was sliding all over the place pretty carelessly the entire match.

Regardless though, thats an excuse for what was a really poor and shaky performance. I also blame Hodgson for clearly having no plan B at all, making no changes despite never really looking on top of things. Even the equaliser was something from nothing and were lucky to get it, we had very few chances in the entire game except for Rooneys chance and his header from a FK.

I supported his decision to play Rooney in the number 10 role, Sterling was compromised I guess, but Sterling looked good on the right to me against Italy so it made sense to me.

We were a shell of how we looked against Italy, we looked nervous from the kick off.. we buckled under uruguays pressure, we had a good spell in the second half where we were timing our movement a little better, uruguay were hacking legs and throwing themselves into every tackle, all it took was a little patience and composure and we could have easily split their defence.

In reality I knew there was no way we were guaranteed to get through this group from the get go, so I shouldn't be upset about it. I was voicing more than anyone how poor England would be, especially with a younger than usual squad... I just feel like I was deceived by the Italy game.

Anyway hopefully Costa Rica can pull out a draw against Italy to put me out of my misery.
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Post by Lord Awesome Fri Jun 20, 2014 2:28 am

B-Mac wrote:Gerrard is bloody cursed...the slip, then plays an offside Suarez in on goal to win it :facepalm: ffs


It was decisive. I sympathize. That mistake was the difference between England having a point and Uruguay also having a point.
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Post by guest_07 Fri Jun 20, 2014 2:50 am

B-Mac wrote:Gerrard is bloody cursed...the slip, then plays an offside Suarez in on goal to win it :facepalm: ffs


i feel it funny when someone from other website label gerrard passing > riquelme passing

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Post by futbol Fri Jun 20, 2014 3:12 am

Roy Hodgson has lost his last four games at the World Cup, two with Switzerland and two with England.

Ray Hudson tweeted this. :bow:

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Post by rwo power Fri Jun 20, 2014 3:39 am

Yohan Modric wrote:So now that it's established that England need a foreign manager, who are the best candidates?
Thomas Tuchel is available. (Buddy of Jürgen Klopp with about the same pedigree as him when he took over Dortmund. Loves to use young players, plays nice style of football etc)
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Post by BeautifulGame Fri Jun 20, 2014 5:51 am

That was awful from Gerrard played his part in both their goals. His legs were gone long time back to play in a 2 man midfield.We cover up to a level for Liverpool by playing two midfielders ahead of him.

Gerrard is not good enough for the DM role Roy used him here . Mark Noble would been better if England wanted play a 2 man midfield with a DM.Hopefully Gerrard has learnt his lesson and retires from NT. Should have retired after the last Euros.

More disappointed with their attacking play looked very good vs Italy butwere awful against Uruguay defense ripped up by Costa Rica.

No plans no structure and left up of individual abilities to conjure up something .Urugauy attackers were harraying the English defense but when it was in Uruguay half england attackers just stood watched and day don't bother pressing .

Hodgson should go if England ever want to progress .Regardless of the setback here they still have a core group of technically good youngsters coming through. They will only get better with CL footy as well. Unfortunately with owl at the they don't have any tactical structure or style of play . Yesterday was too similar to Liverpool under Roy .

I don't remember england a single chance through the middle and Rooney played as no.10 . But apparently because he scored a tap in after missed open header from yard out he was England's best player yesterday Laughing .

Will be now England captain and haunt them till next world cup when he shouldnt even be starting

Ox. Sturridge Walcott

Sterling

This should be their attack for Euros and team should be build around them. But doubt we will ever see this attack future any time soon.

Also amid the clamour for A Come why the heck was Gibbs left out for Baines or Shaw. Clearly much better defender than either of them and champ league experience as well .
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Post by Peccadillo Fri Jun 20, 2014 6:06 am

Sampaoli for 2016.
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Post by urbaNRoots Fri Jun 20, 2014 7:02 am

England haven't produced a quality defensive midfielder for a long time, the last one was Rodwell and he made a terrible decision to join City. How is Chalobah doing? Anyone else?
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Post by Peccadillo Fri Jun 20, 2014 7:05 am

Agreed about Rodwell joining City. Woudn't be the first time that god awful club has stifled english talent.

Why do people just jump to the conclusion poor squad selection is the behind a loss? Squad selection was fine, the system was fine, yes maybe 2 up front (Rooney/Sturridge) etc etc.. but there's no way of knowing now.

You don't know Gibbs wouldn't have flopped. I didn't see anyone complaining about Baines when the squad was announced. Cahill and Jagielka was the right choice at CB. Johnson was rubbish today - but we dont have anyone else to realistically consider.

Gerrard and Hendo have been smashing it for Liverpool this season, even though I am pretty sick of seeing Gerrard in an England shirt because I think hes spoilt goods by being part of Svens England.. I think having a Liverpool core to the squad was a sensible thing to do, in theory.

Rooney, Sterling, Welbeck were the right 3 to play. Media asking why Barkley didn't start, as if that would have changed anything... Lallana? Looked like a fish out of water every minute he was on the pitch...
Sturridge is an obvious choice.

Wilshere? I'm more sorry than anyone to say it.. but have you been watching him this season? Did you watch him when he came on against Italy? Oh no how could Roy be so stupid to ignore Wilshere, yeah, Wilshere, you know? That guy that has been riddled with injuries lately.. Plays for Arsenal and has largely been played out of position all season because of his poor form. Roy what were you thinking?

I do hold Roy responsible on a tactical level and for clearly not being capable of bringing the best out of his players. We thought he was doing so with Sterling, but he was absent from todays match.. There was no contingency plan, we never looked threatening against uruguay and a change didnt come, and when it did what was it? effing Lambert on for Henderson and 442 diamond - Brilliant Roy... Just inspired.
Other than that I saw no tactical changes. Little things too - we looked like we hadn't been training on corners AT ALL, in contrast to say, Italy (see Marchisio goal).

Rooney and Sturridge were the only two players who looked at all threatening yesterday. Rooney did play well. Yes he hit a great chance straight at the keeper and arguably couldve done more with the header but he was still one of our best on the pitch today (which I know, wasnt hard). Rooney is not Messi, Neymar, Robben, Benzema - he might appear in adverts alongside them, but we all know he really doesn't belong there - I feel like thats how people benchmark his performances.
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Post by Xifio Fri Jun 20, 2014 7:31 am

I just saw this:



I thought England had played Uruguay, not France? anyway, yeah, Gerrard! what a mistake! gave away the winning goal from a seemingly innocuous situation ... 2-1, and that's that; totally get why people are saying he shouldn't be playing so deep ...















































sorry, couldn't help myself ... tongue
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