[Champions League] Barcelona vs AC Milan

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Post by Albiceleste Thu Mar 29, 2012 12:34 am

Pep didn't make it very easy on Messi with the lack of width in the lineup he put.

Alexis' runs weren't doing it and he wasn't making enough of them, and Iniesta isn't able to provide too much width so Milan were very compact and narrow making it hard for Messi to get through and be a better goalscoring threat.

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Post by BarrileteCosmico Thu Mar 29, 2012 12:35 am

No... he sees the keeper coming and he hits it so that the keeper cannot touch it and he gets fouled on. At least that's the way it looks to me.

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Post by danyjr Thu Mar 29, 2012 12:54 am

Blame whoever you want, for me the Barcelona coach - as Ibra puts it- was shitting himself. I have never seen such a scared Barcelona team. They simply took no risks in attack at all. No movement in Milan's third. No one running behind AC Mialn's slow defence. No width. In fact Barcelona played the way that Milan's defence were dreaming about. You can outpace Nesta and Mexès, but you can't outsmart them. For rossoneri's fortune, pace did not exist in Barcelona's attack tonight. If Emmanuelson and Robinho were half decent at their finishing they could have given Barcelona a real headache. Anyway, no away goals and Barcelona might regret their approach to this game.

I can see teams like Madrid or Bayern really giving that weakened Milan back four a tough time with their pace. But Milan's defence were comfortable all night and dealt with pretty much everything Barcelona threw at them (which was not a lot). Yes, they had to work their socks off but you couldn't see any period in the game where they were being constantly troubled.
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Post by BarcaKizz Thu Mar 29, 2012 2:38 am

The hate tirade on Alexis needs to stop free. Its become as bad as your hate for Keita. It doesn't really make sense. I do think a lot of us have looked positively on a lot of his play because he's new/as potential for a bright future/we like his style, but this doesn't mean there's a need to bring fans back to earth by searching for every little wrong thing he does. I feel now you must watch games and wait for him to make an error, which is kind of sad.

Today he was ordinary, but so were many players, and I feel he was used badly today, not only by Pep, but also by his teammates who didn't pass to him when he was wide. I kind of disagree that he was playing as a 9, he drifted in quite a bit, but he spent plenty of time on the right, or slightly tucked in. It certainly wasn't Messi right behind him. Messi was still the main central attacker, but failed to get a grip on the game because of good defending and lack of help because nobody was creating any space for him and so Milan could crowd him.

The main problem is exactly what everybody has stated... Keita playing and the general team attitude. Simple logic explains why Keita did start. Away from home, Pep wanted a more defensive setup, Pep does what he once did very regularly 2 or 3 seasons ago and plays Keita and Iniesta. However, I think we all know it doesn't actually make sense or work practically anymore and I'm not exactly sure why Pep did it because he's undoubtedly a better football mind than us.

Keita doesn't bring the ball forward or open space like Iniesta does, and he did nothing wrong all match, but did nothing good or likely to win us the game. In fact... he actually probably should have scored early on, he wasn't offside. He was invisible.

Him playing forced Iniesta wide where he was hardly used, didn't provide width and didn't really do anything helpful. Another useless player really.

Lacking Pedro/Cuenca and Iniesta in midfield meant less space for Messi and Xavi who struggled to do their jobs. Xavi, I thought, was still very good and easily our best player. His shooting was horrid though... didn't reflect his improved eye for goal this year.

Puyol also provided no width on the left, which wasn't his job, but in the absence of Adriano/Abidal, Pep should have thought of some other way of stretching play on the left.

I've read a few people say Alexis was deployed wrongly and I agree. I don't really know why he wasn't just asked to play wide. When he did pull a bit wide, they didn't use him. He's shown he's reasonably effective as a 9 against a high line or when we need runners in behind but today we needed width. Despite free's assertion that he couldn't dribble a grandma, he could certainly play the wide role to great effect but he didn't. If you bring players into the game more, use them confidently, they play more confidently. He made a few errors, but shouldn't be scapegoated at all.

His touch wasn't great in the set play, but we could easily blame Xavi, Keita etc. bad misses. I was surprised he was caught by Bonera but that was never an 'easy' chance anyway. The backheel I thought was actually quite good, I'd have to take another look to see what Free is talking about, but I was more disappointed with Xavi's shot.

Its pretty obvious we should have just played: Xavi, Busi, Iniesta; Pedro, Messi, Alexis. We will at the Camp Nou, I'm sure, and we will win. No biggie. Very Happy
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Post by BarrileteCosmico Thu Mar 29, 2012 2:45 am

I'm fairly confident Pep will learn from his mistakes in this match as Pep realized what the right setup should've been when he subbed in Pedro and Tello. I doubt he would start Keita at home, let's hope he plays against Bilbao.
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Post by billy_gr Thu Mar 29, 2012 8:26 am


Don’t get Pep’s vision for this game.
No width, no overlaps from the left, Isolating players, utilize key players in wrong positions…
I think he got almost everything wrong.
Had the penalty case been a goal would be one of the most beautiful set pieces ever.
P.s.1 One of Iniesta’s worst games
P.S.2 Mascheranoooooo :bow:
P.S.3 Tello is really showing potential
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Post by free_cat Thu Mar 29, 2012 8:34 am

BarrileteCosmico wrote:No... he sees the keeper coming and he hits it so that the keeper cannot touch it and he gets fouled on. At least that's the way it looks to me.

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Yeah, no, the bad control is before this gif. His first touch was bad. Now that I see this gif though, I must say it really seems a penalty, though Alexis diving doesn't help to make it seem like it is one.

@Kizz, I'm not searching for every little thing Alexisdoes wrong. All I mentioned were BIG mistakes, basically he missed 3 one on ones and wasn't even able to shot on goal in 80 minutes. Lame. The backheel was just and plain stupidity.

I don't watch games to see if Alexis makes mistakes, I was cheering for him to bury that one on one as if he was Messi.

I confess that with Keita it's different, and it really upsets me seeing him play, and I was most of the match wishing for Pep to bring him out. No luck.

I hope it happens what you say, I also think that with a normal team and no bad luck we will win them; but Pep can have another bad day or the refs can screw us... so we lost a chance to bury the round.


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Post by The Sanchez Thu Mar 29, 2012 9:04 am

It was clear that Pep was playing defensively (with Puyol playing as a defensive LB, Kieta, Busquests and Xavi playing deep and occasionally coming fowards, mostly Xavi) and Im just happy we drew and didn't lose. Yes, Pep may have made a mistake but to be honest Im sure Cesc's through and lobbed balls wouldn't made a difference especially with the poor conditions and we had a bad game against Sevilla as well so there wasn't much surprised. Puyol played the best out of the lot of them but didn't have the width that Abidal, Adriano and Maxwell would do but played his role well. Inestia really should have been in the midfield and Cuenca on the left but hey Im not complaining about the final score. I think Alexis was playing mostly in Messi's usual role and Messi was playing in false 10 but obviously the tactics weren't that successful. Im sure we will do better at home as the conditions would be much better.
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Post by Hamdyman Thu Mar 29, 2012 11:08 am

Considering the horrendous pitch condition, The way Iniesta and Messi were out of their rhythm, Keita starting and Pep not reading the game and his opportunities better.... a 0-0 at San Siro might not be such a bad result!


Many periods of the match i was imagining Thiago on the pitch having a much more useful role then Keita, with Busquets dropping more backwards... Busquets had another excellent game, so did Mascherano, handled Ibra like the pro that he is.

Anyhow its hard not to think that @ Camp Nou, We got this!! its just that our "away Phantom" of 2011-2012 is still flying around...


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Post by harhar11 Thu Mar 29, 2012 11:12 am

danyjr wrote:Blame whoever you want, for me the Barcelona coach - as Ibra puts it- was shitting himself. I have never seen such a scared Barcelona team. They simply took no risks in attack at all. No movement in Milan's third. No one running behind AC Mialn's slow defence. No width. In fact Barcelona played the way that Milan's defence were dreaming about. You can outpace Nesta and Mexès, but you can't outsmart them. For rossoneri's fortune, pace did not exist in Barcelona's attack tonight. If Emmanuelson and Robinho were half decent at their finishing they could have given Barcelona a real headache. Anyway, no away goals and Barcelona might regret their approach to this game.

I can see teams like Madrid or Bayern really giving that weakened Milan back four a tough time with their pace. But Milan's defence were comfortable all night and dealt with pretty much everything Barcelona threw at them (which was not a lot). Yes, they had to work their socks off but you couldn't see any period in the game where they were being constantly troubled.

If Guardiola shit himself than what did Allegri do? Guardiola played more defensive than he usually does, but saying that he shit himself when the other team had 10 players parked in their own penalty.....

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Post by BarcaKizz Thu Mar 29, 2012 11:16 am

Oh yeah... almost forgot the pitch... it was horrible. Like playing on ice.
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Post by harhar11 Thu Mar 29, 2012 11:18 am

free_cat wrote:
BarrileteCosmico wrote:No... he sees the keeper coming and he hits it so that the keeper cannot touch it and he gets fouled on. At least that's the way it looks to me.

[Champions League] Barcelona vs AC Milan - Page 4 Di-7NQH

Yeah, no, the bad control is before this gif. His first touch was bad. Now that I see this gif though, I must say it really seems a penalty, though Alexis diving doesn't help to make it seem like it is one.

@Kizz, I'm not searching for every little thing Alexisdoes wrong. All I mentioned were BIG mistakes, basically he missed 3 one on ones and wasn't even able to shot on goal in 80 minutes. Lame. The backheel was just and plain stupidity.

I don't watch games to see if Alexis makes mistakes, I was cheering for him to bury that one on one as if he was Messi.

I confess that with Keita it's different, and it really upsets me seeing him play, and I was most of the match wishing for Pep to bring him out. No luck.

I hope it happens what you say, I also think that with a normal team and no bad luck we will win them; but Pep can have another bad day or the refs can screw us... so we lost a chance to bury the round.

I dont understand how in the hell you can dive when there is a a clear contact..

And I really doubt that you cheer for sanchez during games...

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Post by BarrileteCosmico Thu Mar 29, 2012 11:18 am

Allegri did a legit strategy that is often used against us and it worked... don't see what he did wrong.
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Post by free_cat Thu Mar 29, 2012 11:21 am

harhar11 wrote:

I dont understand how in the hell you can dive when there is a a clear contact..

And I really doubt that you cheer for sanchez during games...

I think it's a penalty, there's contact. But he dives too. Both thinks are possible. He dives with his right leg, there's contact with the left.

Bleeping referee, he was terrible. Should have sent off Nesta and this penalty... does someone have a gif of Nesta's brutal tackles on Messi?

You can think whatever you want, off course I cheer for Alexis, he is a barça player. :'D
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Post by BarcaKizz Thu Mar 29, 2012 11:32 am

free_cat wrote:

@Kizz, I'm not searching for every little thing Alexisdoes wrong. All I mentioned were BIG mistakes, basically he missed 3 one on ones and wasn't even able to shot on goal in 80 minutes. Lame. The backheel was just and plain stupidity.

I don't watch games to see if Alexis makes mistakes, I was cheering for him to bury that one on one as if he was Messi.


I don't doubt you actually cheer for him, just exaggerating/joking around. I seriously didn't think the backheel was that bad, I haven't seen it again though, no highlights.

Either way, I don't care which player it was, our shooting just sucked today damn... Sometimes we need someone with a decent long shot or something. We needed to score.
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Post by Madvillain Thu Mar 29, 2012 11:59 am

free_cat wrote:
harhar11 wrote:

I dont understand how in the hell you can dive when there is a a clear contact..

And I really doubt that you cheer for sanchez during games...

I think it's a penalty, there's contact. But he dives too. Both thinks are possible. He dives with his right leg, there's contact with the left.

Bleeping referee, he was terrible. Should have sent off Nesta and this penalty... does someone have a gif of Nesta's brutal tackles on Messi?

You can think whatever you want, off course I cheer for Alexis, he is a barça player. :'D

The fact that you are still persisting in saying he dived really says it all about what your opinion of him is. Your judgement is clearly clouded. I agree with Kizz on this. Stop searching for things he doesn't do good. He hasn't been great since his last injury but he was hardly the worst player yesterday.
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Post by free_cat Thu Mar 29, 2012 12:12 pm

You can dive when they make you a foul, you know? To dive doens't mean it's not a foul, and Alexis clearly dived with his right leg. It doesn't mean it's not a penalty. It's you that have the judgement clouded if you can't see how unnaturally alexis straightens his right leg to fall instead of trying to remain on his feet. There's nothing wrong with it, I don't hate divers, it's just that when I saw the replay on full speed I thought it was not a penalty cause he clearly dives, but it IS a penalty.

And yes, there was a worse player than Alexis: Keita.
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Post by billy_gr Thu Mar 29, 2012 12:21 pm

Iniesta was also worse
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Post by danyjr Thu Mar 29, 2012 12:23 pm

Diving is when the player goes down where there is no/minimal contact. It is a bookable offence. But I don't think he knows what the English word 'dive' means, knowing he's Catalan and all.
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Post by free_cat Thu Mar 29, 2012 12:52 pm

danyjr wrote:Diving is when the player goes down where there is no/minimal contact. It is a bookable offence. But I don't think he knows what the English word 'dive' means, knowing he's Catalan and all.

You are wrong. The word "diving" appears nowhere in the FIFA rules. It is the simulation or trying to cheat the referee that is a bookable offense.

Diving = jumping to the floor. (literal sense, jumping into a swimming pool).

You can jump to the floor even if there is a foul, and you can simulate even if there is a foul (ask Busquets).
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Post by danyjr Thu Mar 29, 2012 1:14 pm

Are you saying Alexis jumped to the floor? Because he didn't. He was brought down.
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Post by kabarca Thu Mar 29, 2012 1:16 pm

It wasn't really a dive,he was trying to jump over Abbiati but his left legs was caught,he chipped the ball over Abbiati,jumped but his left leg was caught and he was already off-balance after contact with the defender.
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Post by Madvillain Thu Mar 29, 2012 2:31 pm

free_cat wrote:
danyjr wrote:Diving is when the player goes down where there is no/minimal contact. It is a bookable offence. But I don't think he knows what the English word 'dive' means, knowing he's Catalan and all.

You are wrong. The word "diving" appears nowhere in the FIFA rules. It is the simulation or trying to cheat the referee that is a bookable offense.

Diving = jumping to the floor. (literal sense, jumping into a swimming pool).

You can jump to the floor even if there is a foul, and you can simulate even if there is a foul (ask Busquets).

Exactly, diving in football is a way to 'cheat', to make it look as if you were fouled by the opponent even though you weren't. That is clearly not what happened here. Therefore, there isn't any reason to regard this as such. The Busquets situation is completely different from what happened here. And as long as there is an actual foul you shouldn't speak of diving. Pretending a tackle was worse than it actually was is unsporting behaviour, but not diving.
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Post by The Franchise Thu Mar 29, 2012 2:54 pm

Ah, Pep....you killed me man. I was so annoyed by full time...so annoyed.

I just cant understand the logic behind not using one of Pedro, Cuenca or Tello from the start in favour of Keita and Iniesta with the added bonus of Puyol at leftback/leftcenterback.

Anyways, here my pros and cons of Pep decisions/ what team did


Pro

3 at the back with the ball, 4 at the back without it. Puyol isnt good going forward so it made sense for him to hand back and us to defend Ibra and Robinho 3 v 2. I felt that was an excellent move and made perfect sense.

I felt we did a good of avoiding set pieces and corners, the only real risk of them scoring. Indeed, they had a couple other chances but both came from Busquets and Xavi losing the ball in bad areas, which nobody can account for.


Con.

The whole idea about Puyol, Keita, Iniesta playing in their positions.

Puyol isnt going forward, for the reasons I already said. So this means, there will be no overlap, no stretching of the play. So it makes sense to me at least, the leftside needs as much width as possible from the forwards. Iniesta, I just felt sorry for...looked so uncomfortable wide and he never got in the game. When he did get in the game, he made loads of errors, a product of not being involved enough before hand.

Keita didnt do anything wrong himself, as in, he didnt do anything worse than I expect. However, he didnt have a real function. He was the to combat the physical nature of the Milan midfield..however, when we have so much of the ball, its not needed.

He at times overlapped Iniesta (thats how bad we lacked width) and at times ran forward into already crowed zones. His inclusion as stated, was pointless. As soon as Tello came on, we looked so much more dangerous because finally the ball was getting played out wide and the fullback was isolated. Either he got taken 1 v 1 or they sent help and that created more space in the middle which he profited from.

I really cant stress enough how bad a decision this was to play the left side how we did, as Free said, this is the worse line up we have used in the CL KO stages since Inter.

I dont care about this silly Alexis thing really. I felt he did what he was always going to do given the situation. He was sometimes right and did alright there, sometimes middle and didnt get the ball there because they defended so deep. If got through once, had his shot blocked...he should of faked and come inside instead of being predictable, but this can happen. He should of obviously won a penalty, it was blatant..but this again, can happen.

The pitch? It was crap, but who cares? We didnt play the correct 11 and that to me was the reason we didnt win, not the pitch. Its Milans pitch and they can do what they like with it.


If Robinho wasnt crap, we would of lost that game 1 nil I reckon. He didnt move without the ball into good positions into space and on top of that missed a great chance. In that way, we was luckly.

Next game, Pep needs to get with the program and play the players we need to win.

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Post by free_cat Thu Mar 29, 2012 3:06 pm

Hete BLKSM wrote:
free_cat wrote:
danyjr wrote:Diving is when the player goes down where there is no/minimal contact. It is a bookable offence. But I don't think he knows what the English word 'dive' means, knowing he's Catalan and all.

You are wrong. The word "diving" appears nowhere in the FIFA rules. It is the simulation or trying to cheat the referee that is a bookable offense.

Diving = jumping to the floor. (literal sense, jumping into a swimming pool).

You can jump to the floor even if there is a foul, and you can simulate even if there is a foul (ask Busquets).

Exactly, diving in football is a way to 'cheat', to make it look as if you were fouled by the opponent even though you weren't. That is clearly not what happened here. Therefore, there isn't any reason to regard this as such. The Busquets situation is completely different from what happened here. And as long as there is an actual foul you shouldn't speak of diving. Pretending a tackle was worse than it actually was is unsporting behaviour, but not diving.

It was a penalty, thus Alexis couldn't cheat the ref into believing it was a penalty, because it really was. Let's just say we are in a semanthic discussion, I think he "embelishes" the fall that doesn't seem natural to me. Anyway, again, it was a penalty, so you are right.
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Post by Loshijosdequien Thu Mar 29, 2012 5:25 pm

Mascherano had a great game! Do you guys think he can be our full time center back
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