[Champions League] Barcelona vs AC Milan

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Post by BarcaLearning Thu Apr 05, 2012 5:39 pm

I hope this ends argument about Cesc at Barca, he was very good in this game, as in many other games. /Sometimes he underperforms and not suitable in other games, but this applies to others as well, just like Sanchez or even Keita Razz

Messi was awesome and could have had a hattrick. We were maybe lucky in that the ref decided on the pen in the first one when some might not have given it, the secnd was clear, although Puyol tried to block Nesta.

I thought Milan were more attacking in this game and we more exposed defensively as a result. Ibra did well, Robinho and him did well for their goal, but apart from that we were just better,

MAybe a bit worried but I was calm we would go through all the time Very Happy

WOOO HOOOO~!! Chelsea next, everyone syaingf they dont have a chance, which is true, but we need to not underestimate them as should be always the case.

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Post by matpol Thu Apr 05, 2012 9:41 pm

Terrible finishing once again. I'm disappointed with performance. When I saw Thiago and Adriano missed sitters, they face reaction was 'umm, okay we are leading who cares'. I don't like to see that. We won't win a final vs RM, if our finishing doesn't improve. Players think 'yeah, we are great, we will score anyway' and miss sitter after sitter. Then the opponent score cheap goal and game becomes tough. Milan scored with their 1st chance Laughing Our poor finishing is the reason we won't win La Liga this season. Messi should steal prime Van Nistelrooy finishing abilities to a ball like in Space Jam the aliens did, and induct it into Pedro, Sanchez and the rest legs. I'm tired with missed sitters and our players attitude 'yeah, who cares, we will win anyway'.
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Post by The Franchise Thu Apr 05, 2012 9:55 pm

I dont think Adriano was like that, he seems pretty dissapointed to me.

Also, Pedro and Alexis dont really miss that many chances. Certaintly not Alexis anyway.
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Post by The Sanchez Fri Apr 06, 2012 8:44 am

Fabregas just needs time to settle into the club. Next season, Im sure he will be the player that the fans want him to be. I really don't think either Fab or Thiago can control the midfield which really is worrying signs as if there is an injury concern for Xavi than there won't be the dictation and control of the midfield that Barca would have. Pep needs to find someone or make either Fab or Thaigo that type of person.
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Post by billionmillion Fri Apr 06, 2012 10:12 am

Even at the moment Fabregas>>any midfielder except xavi and iniesta. before i thought he destroyed barca game but now i see that he is very important player to team
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Post by alexjanosik Fri Apr 06, 2012 2:48 pm

billionmillion wrote:Even at the moment Fabregas>>any midfielder except xavi and iniesta. before i thought he destroyed barca game but now i see that he is very important player to team

He is not better than Busquets.Not by a long shot.
Nor is he better than Thiago.
In the Milan game after Xavi was subbed we lost our normal midfield control with Fab there.Guy just cant control a midfield.

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Post by danyjr Fri Apr 06, 2012 3:03 pm

billionmillion wrote:Even at the moment Fabregas>>any midfielder except xavi and Iniesta
In terms of controlling the midfield, ie as a CM Sneijder, Pirlo, Scholes, Alonso, Banega, Touré, , Schweinsteiger, Gerard and Essien of old times are definitely better than him. As a CAM he is a top midfielder though, in my humble opinion.
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Post by The Franchise Fri Apr 06, 2012 3:09 pm

Essien, Yaya, Gerrard and Snijeder better at controlling the midfield.....I dont even like Cesc but good grief no.

Essien, Gerrard and Snieder are especially funny.
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Post by danyjr Fri Apr 06, 2012 3:17 pm

You honestly think Fàbregas is a better controlling midfielder than Gerrard?
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Post by alexjanosik Fri Apr 06, 2012 3:23 pm

Just to clarify,when I say he cant control a midfield I mean to say he cant control one anywhere near as good as Xavi.Looks like a fish out of water.
But that doesnt mean he cant control midfields.He is certainly better than Gerrard at it.

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Post by Le Samourai Fri Apr 06, 2012 3:28 pm

danyjr wrote:You honestly think Fàbregas is a better controlling midfielder than Gerrard?

Gerrard never controlled the midfield for Pool.

He started doing it recently because we have no one else and he isn't patient enough to do it effectively.
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Post by danyjr Fri Apr 06, 2012 3:28 pm

Shocked
Have you guys ever watched Gerard play?! One thing for sure he won't ever do one of those stupid backheels Fàbregas did against Barcelona that led to Iniesta goal. Hell...I'd say even Wilshere is a better controlling midfielder than Fàbregas.
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Post by The Franchise Fri Apr 06, 2012 3:30 pm

Gerrard? You mean the guy that played his best football as a second striker..that Gerrard? lol

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Post by Le Samourai Fri Apr 06, 2012 3:31 pm

I've watched him play consistently for a long time, he never controlled anything.

Xabi Alonso did.

In recent times he's had to do it and it's no coincidence we've had less success.It's not a knock on Gerrard , it simply was never his job.

I agree on Wilshire though.
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Post by Le Samourai Fri Apr 06, 2012 3:33 pm

The Franchise wrote:Gerrard? You mean the guy that played his best football as a second striker..that Gerrard? lol


It's going off topic but do you really consider him a second striker because he did most of the play making in the final third.

Not really controlling midfield, but final ball etc , the tasks of a traditional AM all fell on him.

Anyway, Gerrard was a Marvel for Pool with the amount of stuff he was asked to do, but unfortunately, controlling the midfield was never one of them
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Post by danyjr Fri Apr 06, 2012 3:41 pm

For me these are the abilities that a good controlling CM should have:

  • Good awareness of surrounding and composure. Simply can't put a foot wrong if you're a central midfielder. Losing possession is not an option.
  • Run a lot, be able come deep to receive balls as well as going up the field, help players who are in trouble.
  • Patience. Play safe passes.


Now tell me which of these you don't agree with, or which of these qualities Gerard doesn't posses.

Gerard a second striker? Don't agree. Maybe I'm biased because I like him too much. The guy works hard, can shoot, pass, long ball and has good technique for an Englishman.
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Post by Le Samourai Fri Apr 06, 2012 3:46 pm

danyjr wrote:For me these are the abilities that a good controlling CM should have:

  • Good awareness of surrounding and composure. Simply can't put a foot wrong if you're a central midfielder. Losing possession is not an option.
  • Run a lot, be able come deep to receive balls as well as going up the field, help players who are in trouble.
  • Patience. Play safe passes.


Now tell me which of these you don't agree with, or which of these qualities Gerard doesn't posses.

Gerard a second striker? Don't agree. Maybe I'm biased because I like him too much. The guy works hard, can shoot, pass, long ball and has good technique for an Englishman.

There.
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Post by The Franchise Fri Apr 06, 2012 3:47 pm

No, he wasnt really a second striker...its just his interpretation of the number 10 role which looked quite alot like what other Europeans would call, a second striker.



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Post by danyjr Fri Apr 06, 2012 3:53 pm

Le Samourai wrote:There.
I can see what you mean. But you have to understand the situation with Liverpool. Other players going into empty spaces and making themselves available to be passed to helps the CM in succeeding in his job. In Barcelona, this is done seamlessly. But not Liverpool. I mean we're talking about a team that is 30+ points behind leaders. Gerard simply doesn't have good players around him to help him out. Do you think Xavi would have been as good in controlling the midfield with Charlie Adam playing alongside him?

Don't kick a dog when it's down.


Last edited by danyjr on Fri Apr 06, 2012 3:55 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Post by The Franchise Fri Apr 06, 2012 3:54 pm

And "what they can do" is irrelvant, its about what they did do...and Gerrard never controlled the midfield.

The guy played with Alonso and Maschrano behind him..so he constantly ran off the ball to link up with Torres.

I wouldnt be surprised if he and Torres interchanged more passes than him and Alonso lol

He didnt play safe passes, he made hollywood balls and tried to make things happen in the final 1/3rd. Ran away from deep waters of midfield.

Essien and Snijeder are not better examples either..Essien isnt even good on the ball and constantly made runs up and down. He was like a rich mans Ramires.

Snijeder takes more shots than most strikers..controlling the midfield he has no intrest in.
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Post by Le Samourai Fri Apr 06, 2012 4:01 pm

Please tell me you didn't just compare King Essien to Ramires Shocked.

Anyway , Dani is right , the only reason most label Stevie as a CM is because he ran back just as much as any CM or B2B midfielder would.

He exchanged passes with Alonso , they were almost always quick passes to advance the ball, never to settle the tempo or anything like that.

He left the traditional areas on the pitch a CM occupies just as quickly as he entered them.

You make a point........he didn't have people moving off the ball , nor does he now particularly....but that's just rating him on what he couldve done rather than what he actually did.Regardless he never had the patience, whether he could've learned it is something we'll unfortunately never know.
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Post by The Franchise Fri Apr 06, 2012 4:09 pm

Stylically yes I did and im correct to do so.

They are very similar player except Essien used to be better at everything.


Look Gerrard had many skills, but patience and tactical responsibilty werent two of them, both of which are required toplay in deep midfield and control games from there.

Evidence of that was at Pool when Rafa moved him further forward and even more obvious was his England performances.

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Post by BarcaLearning Fri Apr 06, 2012 4:13 pm

Cesc I think isnt that type able to control the match like Xavi, hes not able to hold onto the ball as strongly and control and dictate, even Busquets is better at it. Hes become more about movement and all round running and linking rather than static midfielder with calm and passing. Maybe his role was different at Arsenal and had others helping him with that task, now hes quite different... not sure if long term wise thats good when Xavi retires or whatever, if they players can together 'replace' Xavi or will find a new Xavi like Thiago or something...
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Post by Spooony Fri Apr 06, 2012 5:42 pm

Give the guy a chance. He have been playing direct football in england for some time he need to get rid of the shit habbits first
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Post by The Sanchez Fri Apr 06, 2012 9:49 pm

He really didn't 'control' the midfield for the past few seasons. He played in that CAM which is not really wehere you control the midfield. Song and Wilshere for example last season controlled the midfield. You can't expect someone who has got use to playing in that CAM role to play as a world class central mid. It takes time and most importantly needs games to prove as well.
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Post by danyjr Fri Apr 06, 2012 11:52 pm

Meh, frankly I don't see neither of Thiago or Fábregas becoming Xavi's successor. Fábregas doesn't have the composure to be competent in that position and Thiago is a Brazilian in heart and loves playing up the pitch. Not to mention Xavi is irreplaceable for Barcelona and people will realise this once he declines and eventually retires.

Funny how most thought he was an average player prior to the Guardiola era.
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