Why is Sahin being ostracized?

What annoys me about this Sahin situation is that we are probably paying a lot of wages on him while he apparently has dropped to a very fringe status in the manager's eyes.

vanDEEZ wrote:can his poor play still be blame on real madrid?

B¡tch please...the guy was Bundesliga player of the season. Remember people calling him the Next Xavi prior to joining Madrid? His only fault is joining the team best known for ruining talents every season.

I dont blame R.Madrid or Mou for Sahin's poor form. I think he didnt work hard enough, didnt have the mental ability to play at such a high level. I mean we all say ohh but he was so good in Bundesliga, but Mou knew that, Rodgers knew that. Yet he still hasn't showed any of that talent consistently. At the end of the day, a player himself is responsible for his performance and the decisions he makes. So Sahin is to be blamed here.

I just feel that he shouldn't have gone to Madrid at THAT point in time. He was always going to find it hard, though that would mean that he was not as good as Madrid hoped though.

Well, it's always stupid to leave a well-functioning team with great chemistry that can be expected to play CL every season for the forseeable future, IMHO.

Its not stupid to leave so you could follow your dreams.

shinigami99 wrote:I just feel that he shouldn't have gone to Madrid at THAT point in time. He was always going to find it hard, though that would mean that he was not as good as Madrid hoped though.

to be fair, mourinho probably told him he would play a lot, and then mou said he didnt know where to play him

dem negritos

Sahins fault for not exceeding the expectations.

Again, Liverpool is trying to make Sahin into an AM lol because they will not bench Gerrard obviously. My 7 year old nephew could probably see that Sahin can't play AM. He's never played AM in his life before. He's always been a deep-lying midfielder.

It's not his fault that you have legends like Alonso and Gerrard blocking him.

That's why i want him back at Madrid btw... Alonso is slowly losing his level. Still great. But i don't know how much longer Madrid can compensate for his slowness.I say 1 more year after this one max.

Sahin actually didn't do anything wrong at Real Madrid. He just rarely played.

danyjr wrote:

vanDEEZ wrote:can his poor play still be blame on real madrid?

B¡tch please...the guy was Bundesliga player of the season. Remember people calling him the Next Xavi prior to joining Madrid? His only fault is joining the team best known for ruining talents every season.

and now liverpool ruin talents too? that logic makes no sense. if he is that great of a player he would be able to find a spot in liverpools xi, or would have with madrid.

sportsczy wrote:Again, Liverpool is trying to make Sahin into an AM lol because they will not bench Gerrard obviously. My 7 year old nephew could probably see that Sahin can't play AM. He's never played AM in his life before. He's always been a deep-lying midfielder.

It's not his fault that you have legends like Alonso and Gerrard blocking him.

That's why i want him back at Madrid btw... Alonso is slowly losing his level. Still great. But i don't know how much longer Madrid can compensate for his slowness.I say 1 more year after this one max.

Okay I'll say this one last time, so I hope no one else makes an ass of themselves and repeats this. Sahin has only played AM for us 3 times. And that was when Shelvey had a red card and was suspended for three games after United game. Lucas was still injured. Borini also had an injury after that United game so he was out as well, so that moved Suso to the wing. Henderson was completely frozen out of the team at the time. Joe Cole was injured still. And Downing was shite.

WE ONLY HAD 3 MIDFIELDERS fit and in managers rotation at that time. Allen cannot play AM, so he was our DM. Both Gerrard and Sahin could play AM but Rodgers system Gerrard just doesn't have the technical ability to play in tight spaces or the legs anymore. Sahin was the only choice for our AM at the time (since Suso had to be deployed as winger).

Sahin played as AM for 3 games until Shelvey came back. AND in those 3 games he had his best spell of form for us, scoring 3 times and assisting 2 times. You idiots Do understand that he was on top form when played as AM behind Suarez right?? Those 3 games were the only games where he's actually done anything of note at Liverpool.

PLEASE watch our games before posting nonsense, and that goes to everyone on here not just you.

Bu that's the thing... he's considered the backup to Shelvey at AM. Even Sahin admits that he's not too comfortable:

"I have played my whole career deeper and that's my position," said Sahin. "But I have also played as a No 10 here. If I could choose a position it would be holding midfielder."

Read more: http://www.thenational.ae/sport/football/difficult-challenges-lie-ahead-for-nuri-sahin-at-liverpool#ixzz2GHzhwR4x

He's only had 2 league starts since those AM games. So yes, he's either not being played or played out of position. And looking at the box scores of the 7 games he's had in EPL, Gerrard was playing in all of them as a starter. You had Allen-Gerrard anchoring the middle in all of them. Just look at the game logs here http://soccernet.espn.go.com/player/_/id/84643/nuri-sahin?cc=5739

Once we get rid of Steven Gerrard and Jonjo Shelvey, we can progress from hero-football to quick, technical, creative football that Brendan Rodgers employed at Swansea City Football Club.

Gerrard should not be played on reputation alone, and his goals simply do not offset his poor possession game, pitiful ball retention, and his tendency to play long hoofs like he is Michael Williamson. We have the best ball-winning midfielder in the Premier League, who is also a superb link for our midfield and defense, and a quick, short passer - Joseph Allen. We have a great technical central midfielder, who with confidence can become our best midfielder - Nuri Sahin. We have a young, creative, agile attacking midfielder who is being played out of position due to Gerrard's apparent entitlement to a central midfield position - Suso. We have a proven, phenomenal central defensive midfielder who cannot play to his talents because he is forced in a poor position by Steven Gerrard - Lucas Leiva.

If we were lucky enough to purchase Moussa Dembélé from Fulham Football Club, we could have had a brilliant central midfield - one that relies on ball retention and possession to outwit opponents. We already have the most creative player in the Premier League; we just need players that can conform to his talents.

sportsczy wrote:Bu that's the thing... he's considered the backup to Shelvey at AM. Even Sahin admits that he's not too comfortable:

"I have played my whole career deeper and that's my position," said Sahin. "But I have also played as a No 10 here. If I could choose a position it would be holding midfielder."

Read more: http://www.thenational.ae/sport/football/difficult-challenges-lie-ahead-for-nuri-sahin-at-liverpool#ixzz2GHzhwR4x

He's only had 2 league starts since those AM games. So yes, he's either not being played or played out of position. And looking at the box scores of the 7 games he's had in EPL, Gerrard was playing in all of them as a starter. You had Allen-Gerrard anchoring the middle in all of them. Just look at the game logs here http://soccernet.espn.go.com/player/_/id/84643/nuri-sahin?cc=5739

No did you read what I said. He's not considered a backup to Shelvey at AM. We were forced to play him at AM those 3 times because we had no other choices. Even then he excelled at AM, I don't see the problem with why he was complaining.

And since then it's his own fault that he hasn't been getting games. Rodgers gave him a couple of starts in PL in his favored CM position and bunch more in EL again in CM position. He failed miserably. I mean he did nothing of note that Allen couldn't do. All sideways passing and no midfield control from him whatsoever. So now he's benched because he's a player on loan with no buy back clause who flopped most of the chances he got.

So why should BR play him?? He's got Henderson, Shelvey, Gerrard, Allen, Lucas who all play with more heart and desire and have a future at the club.
In the past couple of weeks Sahin has been out with a broken nose, so when comes back whatever chance he's given he needs to take it, if he doesn't he will no right to complain about little game time or which position he wants to play.

And don't get me wrong, I would love for Sahin to succeed for us but it really is his own fault that he's fallen out so badly in the past year. I definitely rate him higher than the British scrubs we have but sadly he's doing this to himself.

Thing is that there's no buyout option for Sahin... and given what has happened, he has no intent of asking for a permanent move to Liverpool, which Madrid wouldn't give him anyhow. Many still believe he's the long term replacement for Alonso. I have a feeling he either gets his chance at Madrid next year or he goes on a year long loan back to Dortmund.

Even if Madrid do sell him, we'd require a buyback option. Every single one of our younger players have one that were lent/sold (Sarabia, Canales, Carvajal and Joselu).

I can see how Rogers is in a tough position because he doesn't feel he will retain Sahin.

Tbh I do believe it comes down to the fact that Sahin has no buyout clause which makes him impossible to retain. Rodgers probably thinks it's useless to give opportunities to Sahin when he can give chances to youngsters like Shelvey, Allen, Hendo, or Suso to improve for the future. Had Sahin really impressed from the get go and looked like he could lead us to CL spots then it would be no question of starting him. But it's not the case sadly, so he's the last choice CM in Rodgers plans.

Yeah but in those EL games, he's usually playing with scrubs. It's hard to rate someone on those.

Liverpool talent is meh to begin with... so to play with the 2nd team is just non-indicative to me. I saw a couple of them and it was usually 2-3 starters mixed in with a bunch of nobodies when Liverpool played in EL.

He's not an individual player that can create all by himself. He's a flow player that manages a system in the midfield.

Not saying he has been good. But 7 EPL games where half of those were out of position + EL games playing next to scrubs aren't going to show anything.

Just a waste of a year all around. Rogers has been very meh in his management and Sahin currently lacks confidence. Bad combo.

Messiah "Aggerswagger" wrote:

sportsczy wrote:Bu that's the thing... he's considered the backup to Shelvey at AM. Even Sahin admits that he's not too comfortable:

"I have played my whole career deeper and that's my position," said Sahin. "But I have also played as a No 10 here. If I could choose a position it would be holding midfielder."

Read more: http://www.thenational.ae/sport/football/difficult-challenges-lie-ahead-for-nuri-sahin-at-liverpool#ixzz2GHzhwR4x

He's only had 2 league starts since those AM games. So yes, he's either not being played or played out of position. And looking at the box scores of the 7 games he's had in EPL, Gerrard was playing in all of them as a starter. You had Allen-Gerrard anchoring the middle in all of them. Just look at the game logs here http://soccernet.espn.go.com/player/_/id/84643/nuri-sahin?cc=5739

No did you read what I said. He's not considered a backup to Shelvey at AM. We were forced to play him at AM those 3 times because we had no other choices. Even then he excelled at AM, I don't see the problem with why he was complaining.

And since then it's his own fault that he hasn't been getting games. Rodgers gave him a couple of starts in PL in his favored CM position and bunch more in EL again in CM position. He failed miserably. I mean he did nothing of note that Allen couldn't do. All sideways passing and no midfield control from him whatsoever. So now he's benched because he's a player on loan with no buy back clause who flopped most of the chances he got.

So why should BR play him?? He's got Henderson, Shelvey, Gerrard, Allen, Lucas who all play with more heart and desire and have a future at the club.
In the past couple of weeks Sahin has been out with a broken nose, so when comes back whatever chance he's given he needs to take it, if he doesn't he will no right to complain about little game time or which position he wants to play.

And don't get me wrong, I would love for Sahin to succeed for us but it really is his own fault that he's fallen out so badly in the past year. I definitely rate him higher than the British scrubs we have but sadly he's doing this to himself.

The problem is that he is not feeling confident in his own abilities. This is a mental thing, not a footballing problem. He is an outstanding footballer - better than any of our current midfielders. If we play him, it will show that we trust him and his abilities, and he will become more confident. He won't get it just by being left on the bench while hoofball exploiters such as Jonjo Shelvey and Steven Gerrard are still getting playing time. Joseph Allen is probably our top midfielder, rarely losing possession, being the best ball-winning player in the Premier League, and is a great link for our midfield and defense. We can't expect him to do much more than that. He excels in his role and I am grateful for that.

Would you rather play Steven Gerrard or Jonjo Shelvey than Nuri Sahin, even though they are horrible footballers? They do play with more heart, but they play with less intelligence and less creativity. Gerrard especially - so wasteful in possession, always attempting the hollywood pass instead of joining in slow buildup play that would lead to a goal. Shelvey is just pathetic; lacks footballing ability, and lacks the mental ability to play for such a storied club. He also plays as if he is Gerrard's son, which is leading him to a horrible future as he does not have the physical abilities that Gerrard once possessed in his prime.

Our best midfield line would include a solid 3 of Lucas Leiva, Joseph Allen, and Nuri Sahin. An outstanding defensive midfielder, a great link-up player, and a creative maestro. Add in the likes of Suso and Joseph Cole, both great technical players. Add in Jordan Henderson, who provides depth and efficiency to our side. If we can acquire a great central attacking midfielder, we will have a decent midfield. Now, it is on life support, and that is the main cause for our lack of success.

peerIess wrote:The problem is that he is not feeling confident in his own abilities. This is a mental thing, not a footballing problem.

This actually puzzles me. When he was still in Dortmund, Sahin openly stated in an interview that he intended to become the best DM in the BL, and the way he phrased this in the interview, he came over with quite some self-confidence.

So you mean he lost this self-confidence since he went away from Dortmund? Admittedly, he was injured quite a bit, but I really can't imagine that his mental state would be affected that much.

rwo power wrote:

peerIess wrote:The problem is that he is not feeling confident in his own abilities. This is a mental thing, not a footballing problem.

This actually puzzles me. When he was still in Dortmund, Sahin openly stated in an interview that he intended to become the best DM in the BL, and the way he phrased this in the interview, he came over with quite some self-confidence.

So you mean he lost this self-confidence since he went away from Dortmund? Admittedly, he was injured quite a bit, but I really can't imagine that his mental state would be affected that much.

Not even that. I don't know Nuri Sahin, but I would assume that he felt at the peak of his mental abilities after his transfer to Real Madrid. But if you spend the majority of time on the bench for a team when you know you are a great player, it takes a toll on your tolerance and self-confidence. But that was at Real Madrid. Now that he is behind such below-average players like Steven Gerrard and especially Jonjo Shelvey, he should be pissed off and mad, as well as reluctant to play to the fullest of his abilities.

The issue is that we have built the team around an egomaniac who attempts to play heroball all the damn time - Steven Gerrard. We have attempted to conform to Luis Suarez's talents, but then we still employ hoofball specialists. I just wish that we could clone Glen Johnson and play him at multiple positions.

rwo power wrote:

peerIess wrote:The problem is that he is not feeling confident in his own abilities. This is a mental thing, not a footballing problem.

This actually puzzles me. When he was still in Dortmund, Sahin openly stated in an interview that he intended to become the best DM in the BL, and the way he phrased this in the interview, he came over with quite some self-confidence.

So you mean he lost this self-confidence since he went away from Dortmund? Admittedly, he was injured quite a bit, but I really can't imagine that his mental state would be affected that much.

He' right RWO.... his self belief got crushed in Madrid mostly. The problem is that you come as a hotshot and then you get outdone by WC players that outclass you and outwork you. How you respond defines your career for the most part. On one side, you have players like Benzema and Higuain who put in the work and regained confidence by becoming a WC-level player. Then you have Sahin who never dug himself out. Modric is digging himself a hole too right now.

That's why going to a club like Madrid is not for everyone.

sportsczy wrote:Yeah but in those EL games, he's usually playing with scrubs. It's hard to rate someone on those.

Liverpool talent is meh to begin with... so to play with the 2nd team is just non-indicative to me. I saw a couple of them and it was usually 2-3 starters mixed in with a bunch of nobodies when Liverpool played in EL.

He's not an individual player that can create all by himself. He's a flow player that manages a system in the midfield.

Not saying he has been good. But 7 EPL games where half of those were out of position + EL games playing next to scrubs aren't going to show anything.

Just a waste of a year all around. Rogers has been very meh in his management and Sahin currently lacks confidence. Bad combo.

I disagree. Our team doesn't change much in the EL from PL. We have a very thin squad. All of those unknown guys you are talking about are getting games in the PL just like Sahin. Only Assaidi has been frozen out but he's a very clever player that kid. For some reason guys like Agger, Suarez, Lucas, or Allen are excelling even when playing with those scrubs. It really says more about Sahin than anything else, if he can't stand out in a team while playing with a bunch scrubs.

This definitely has been a very wasteful year for Sahin and Rodgers is showing his inabilities by the day as a manager, so no surprise on how he's handled Sahins situation.

peerIess wrote:

rwo power wrote:

peerIess wrote:The problem is that he is not feeling confident in his own abilities. This is a mental thing, not a footballing problem.

This actually puzzles me. When he was still in Dortmund, Sahin openly stated in an interview that he intended to become the best DM in the BL, and the way he phrased this in the interview, he came over with quite some self-confidence.

So you mean he lost this self-confidence since he went away from Dortmund? Admittedly, he was injured quite a bit, but I really can't imagine that his mental state would be affected that much.

Not even that. I don't know Nuri Sahin, but I would assume that he felt at the peak of his mental abilities after his transfer to Real Madrid. But if you spend the majority of time on the bench for a team when you know you are a great player, it takes a toll on your tolerance and self-confidence. But that was at Real Madrid. Now that he is behind such below-average players like Steven Gerrard and especially Jonjo Shelvey, he should be pissed off and mad, as well as reluctant to play to the fullest of his abilities.

The issue is that we have built the team around an egomaniac who attempts to play heroball all the damn time - Steven Gerrard. We have attempted to conform to Luis Suarez's talents, but then we still employ hoofball specialists. I just wish that we could clone Glen Johnson and play him at multiple positions.

and you call yourself a Pool fan. Gerrard has been below his standards this season, but he's carried this team for over decade mostly by himself so he has the right to play hero ball. All of your hate towards Stevie just shows how much you really like Pool. He gave his life to our club and we should repay him by forcing him to retire?? is that what you suggest?

Tbh Stevie is still a better footballer than most of our team. Until we get better players that can actually bench him, there is no point arguing to drop Stevie. He shites all day long on Allen, Henderson, Cole, Shelvey, and Sahin(on current form). Your argument is moot mate.

Messiah "Aggerswagger" wrote: and you call yourself a Pool fan. Gerrard has been below his standards this season, but he's carried this team for over decade mostly by himself so he has the right to play hero ball. All of your hate towards Stevie just shows how much you really like Pool. He gave his life to our club and we should repay him by forcing him to retire?? is that what you suggest?

Tbh Stevie is still a better footballer than most of our team. Until we get better players that can actually bench him, there is no point arguing to drop Stevie. He shites all day long on Allen, Henderson, Cole, Shelvey, and Sahin(on current form). Your argument is moot mate.

That, or force him to accept a bench role...but yes.

Bhends the thing is though, jokes aside he's still a better player than Shelvey, Henderson, Allen, Suso (atm), Sahin (atm), Cole, Downing. So no point in benching unless we actually have better players to take his place.