The Duel (part 3)

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Who played better?

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Post by The Franchise Thu Feb 09, 2012 3:19 pm

The Duel: Didi vs Kopa, 1958 World Cup Semi-Final (Video)


Brazil’s legendary 1958 team is remembered for several reasons. For the meteoric impact the 17-year-old Pelé had on the global stage. For Garrincha’s crazy mazy dribbles. And of course, for being the first Brazilian side to win the World Cup.

But the best player of that team isn’t much talked about anymore. The man who guided Brazil to success wasn’t Pelé or Garrincha. It was the central midfield playmaker Valid Pereira ‘Didi’. Technically gifted, renowned for his skills and his ‘falling leaf’ free kicks, his upright pose gave him a certain aristocratic dignity, reflected in his nickname: The Ethiopian Prince.

The eye-catching figure in the other great team of the 1958 World Cup was the Frenchman Raymond Kopa. Quick and agile, he married dribbling skills to an excellent vision. He’d go on to win the Ballon d’Or that year – and for good reason.

Didi and Kopa met each other on the field during the semi-final of the 1958 World Cup.

So who played better? You decide.



Last edited by The Franchise on Thu Feb 09, 2012 3:32 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Post by The Franchise Thu Feb 09, 2012 3:21 pm

Personally seen this game recently, it was a great game actually.

But yeah for me, Didi. Fantastic player, dicatated from deep and made passes to connect the play excellent.

Combines well and his defensive ability was underrated too.

Didi was a great player for me, one nobody talks about now, but a really great midfielder.
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Post by Guest Thu Feb 09, 2012 3:26 pm

Again after seeing the full length of this game I would give it to Didi, his link up play with Pele was well beyond its years and many consider this performance the reason why Madrid signed him just a year later.

The amount of space Didi managed to open up in the final third time and time again allowed his team mates so much freedom with the ball.

Despite Kopa managing to win the best player of the tournament this was not one of his best games even though he was by far France's best player being directly involved in both of France's goals and involved in all their best chances.

I would give this to Didi.

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Post by Mr Nick09 Thu Feb 09, 2012 3:28 pm

Both madrid legends banana

Both playing a different position. Didi was involved deeper in the midfield trying to get the ball to move forward and involved in winning the ball back. He did score a screamer from long range tho. Kopa was involved in more direct attacking moves, and he made a delightful pass on the first goal for France (nice through balls btw).

midfield general vs direct attacker, diffeent styles and the impact can be rated differently, but all and all, Didi was better. Controlling the game for your team is difficult enough but he still found a way to score and assist.

so Didi for me
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Post by Ganso Thu Feb 09, 2012 3:28 pm

didi played for madrid? affraid didnt know that

ot,didi
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Post by Guest Thu Feb 09, 2012 3:30 pm

Nes-T33 wrote:didi played for madrid? affraid didnt know that

ot,didi

Not for very long, had huge issues with Di Stefano and ended up leaving less than a year later.

Di Steafno had quite the ego and did not seem to like sharing the spotlight with Didi who the fans were starting to consider a favourite.

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Post by The Franchise Thu Feb 09, 2012 3:33 pm

I liked Fontaine more than Kopa in that game actually, had some great touches and really put himself about.
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Post by Guest Thu Feb 09, 2012 3:34 pm

The Franchise wrote:I liked Fontaine more than Kopa in that game actually, had some great touches and really put himself about.

13 goals in the tournie, freaking amazing lmao

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Post by The Franchise Thu Feb 09, 2012 3:42 pm

Amazing,

30 goals in 21 games for France I read lol
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Post by Zealous Thu Feb 09, 2012 4:12 pm

Didi grew into the game so I'd give to him, the screamer didn't hurt his chances ether Very Happy

However it was clear why Kopa won best player. The man was clearly very good I'd even go as far to say that he was one of the best European footballers ever.

However in this game Didi won, but as with all "the duels" so far you have to consider whether playing for the better team helped him do that. So far each of the three "winners" have played for the winning/better team Razz

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Post by Guest Thu Feb 09, 2012 4:16 pm

The Franchise wrote:Amazing,

30 goals in 21 games for France I read lol

A great player who had a great team

The possibilities when you have Kopa and Vincent feeding you the ball....my oh my

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Post by The Franchise Thu Feb 09, 2012 4:19 pm

Exactly, thats a trend that stands out.

The better performer has always been on the winning team, the question is, did they end up winning largly because the better performer was on that team or was it just the better team won on the day and therefore helped the player have more chances to perform.

I felt though that Brazil were the better team and alot of it was because of Didi, his control from deep gave them a platform to attack and his distrubution linked them from back to front and go the forwards in the game.

Garrincha didnt have a good game, Pele before he scored wanst involved, Didi was the guy controlled the game while it was still in balance and then continued it when the forwards started to really effect the game for Brazil.


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Post by Guest Thu Feb 09, 2012 4:22 pm

The Franchise wrote:Exactly, thats a trend that stands out.

The better performer has always been on the winning team, the question is, did they end up winning largly because the better performer was on that team or was it just the better team won on the day and therefore helped the player have more chances to perform.

I felt though that Brazil were the better team and alot of it was because of Didi, his control from deep gave them a platform to attack and his distrubution linked the from back to front and go the forwards in the game.

Garrincha didnt have a good game, Pele before he scored want involved, Did was the guy controlled the game while it was still in balance and then continued it when the forwards started to really effect the game for Brazil.

As I said the amount of space Didi opened up in the final third for his other team mates was startling at times.

He seemed like the puppet master

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Post by Zealous Thu Feb 09, 2012 4:26 pm

That's a good question. Thinking about it I'm not really sure whether it's either.

Maybe it's a synergy thing where both the team and the player feed off of each other's positive play.

If for example France played in a way that would have denied Didi space Kopa would have had a better game (and imo he did a decent job in the actual game).

Anyway I agree with you on Did's performance he was clearly the victor of this duel. Really loving these btw, keep em' coming Very Happy
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Post by The Franchise Thu Feb 09, 2012 4:28 pm

Yep. And what do you think about the fact Brazil lack one of his kinds and have done for a while?

After Didi it was Gerson, a very similar player. Then Socrates, who was slightly different but his role in connecting was the exact same. And while less famous, Mazinho was another player of this type.

Of course Brazil have been successful since then, but this player seems to have died for them since Dunga came into the team in the 90's and he has been the template Brazil seems to have looked for since then with the likes of Gilberto Silva and now Lucas.

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Post by Zealous Thu Feb 09, 2012 4:43 pm

The Franchise wrote:Yep. And what do you think about the fact Brazil lack one of his kinds and have done for a while?

After Didi it was Gerson, a very similar player. Then Socrates, who was slightly different but his role in connecting was the exact same. And while less famous, Mazinho was another player of this type.

Of course Brazil have been successful since then, but this player seems to have died for them since Dunga came into the team in the 90's and he has been the template Brazil seems to have looked for since then with the likes of Gilberto Silva and now Lucas.


True that purely creative spark in midfield that feeds the forwards has disappeared for Brazil my best guess for why that is would probably be the growing stock of the wingback, while before in the team that was lead by Socrates Branco and Josimar (LB and RB respectively) were encouraged to go forward. However they didn't balance it out with some form of defensive player, and when you leave your CB's exposed they start to cost you games.

So while the wingback's stock grew and grew to the point where Brazil would become famous for them (imo it's Brazil's most famous position considering the names that have played RB/LB)

A defensive midfielder in the center seemed like the next natural step and you can't argue with results, Brazil have two world cups using these archetypes.

There are signs of change though, especially if a player like Ganso can mature into a leader for Brazil.
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Post by Ganso Thu Feb 09, 2012 4:57 pm

Ganso is our "Didi" type of player.sadly hes the only midfield general type of player we have,maybe hernanes if he played as a CM like in his Sao Paulo days

Im glad PH is playing well again,i hope he stays injury free at least until the olympics
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Post by Zealous Thu Feb 09, 2012 4:59 pm

My country have a chance to qualify for the Olympics. I hope we meet Brazil if we do :bow:
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Post by Ganso Thu Feb 09, 2012 5:01 pm

as long as you dont eliminate us or Spain tongue

i really want to see u23 Brazil vs Spain again
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Post by Zealous Thu Feb 09, 2012 5:06 pm

Hey if we qualify I think we'll cause some waves. Our u23 team is better than our first team lol
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Post by The Franchise Thu Feb 09, 2012 5:07 pm

Nes-T33 wrote:Ganso is our "Didi" type of player.sadly hes the only midfield general type of player we have,maybe hernanes if he played as a CM like in his Sao Paulo days

Im glad PH is playing well again,i hope he stays injury free at least until the olympics

I like Ganso as a number 10, he is more Zico than Socrates. I know he drops deep and instigates but the more chances he gets to play the final pass the better.

Hernanes is a good shout, was the prototype for this position back then.
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Post by Zealous Thu Feb 09, 2012 5:08 pm

Hernanes would be a regular starter for Brazil if not for the kung fu kick on Benzema lol
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