Copa del rey [ Semi-Finals | 1st leg]: Valencia CF Vs FCBarcelona

And yes, to confirm. I am not unhappy about the result, im not even unhappy with the performance because I know they are tired right now. I just feel it fair to pick out mistakes in both the players and the line up.

Cuenca? He did okay, his dribble and pass for Sanchez was excellent. But he didnt get so many touches or chances to go 1 v 1. I think Puyol down his side plus Valencia's double leftback line up made it difficult for him.

I dont think pointing the finger at any one player, Alexis, Puyol, or even Messi who realistically cost us the game (which he never does even if he doesnt play well) but pointing out one guy doesnt really make sense because everyone on the pitch relies on everyone else an nobody played very well at all.

free_cat wrote:

BarcaKizz wrote:You need to stop the Alexis hate goddamn... Your bias for La Masia players is obvious, we all would prefer to bring up our own youth but there's no point not recognising other talent when they come to us.

Nobody was great last night. Cuenca's a talented dribbler and that little move to put Alexis through was magic, but Alexis' best chance wasn't that one. Otherwise most of the night I can remember Cuenca being in Mathieu's pocket.

That was definitely Alexis best chance if we don't count the offside one. He was on a one on one with a lot of space from the GK. Perfect position.
Cuenca wasn't in Mathieu's pocket at any time, he barely lost balls. I'm not saying he was superb or anything, but I don't think he dissapointed either, at least not to the extent Alexis disapointed with his missed chances.


4:29 Messi does that, and we would all be fapping with both hands.
7:37 link up with Cesc and Messi and great pass to Thiago for the penalty. (yeah, it's not Messi, it's Cuenca)

In my opinion 2.05 was Alexis' best chance. He should of buried both really. I'm not saying he had a great game, but I'm not going to say Pedro would've been any better like you always do either. Like Dani says, he was the only one who ran into goalscoring positions, we have enough dribblers and passers in the hole as it is, it gets really frustrating to watch the pass, pass and no penetration.

You're right, I missed the Thiago penalty. Great play from Cuenca. He's promising yes, and maybe I missed parts where he was better. I don't mean to single him out, nobody was that impressive. Dani points out well that Alba and Mathieu were both down his flank, so thats difficult to deal with.

All I want for you is to get off Alexis' back haha

Before the game I would have taken a score draw at the Mestalla gladly.
I thought we played very well.Part of it was because Valencia werent pressing as well as they normally do.
We should have won the match if not for poor finishing.Also dont get the criticism of the players.Thought most of them played well.
I thought Messi had a very good game too.Granted his finishing was off and he missed a penalty but still had a good game imo.
The one aspect of his game that no one talks about is his play with back to the goal.
He is excellent with his back to the goal and yesterday that was on display.
If the balls are chest high or less he brings the ball down successfully even under intense pressure and lays it off to other players.His excellent first touch helps him here.
Its a very good out ball when the team is under pressure and yesterday that was to be seen.

Overall a good game from us and we should be progressing to the final.

Dont know Alex, I felt it wasnt a good game by us despite the good result.

I think Messi had a ton of bad touches in terms of when dribbling he knocked it too far ahead and lost it, it happened more than you expect from him.

I also felt guys like Abidal and Busquets misplaced passes in ways they normally wouldnt.

I think it was a tired but brave and hard working performance.

The Franchise wrote:Dont know Alex, I felt it wasnt a good game by us despite the good result.

I think Messi had a ton of bad touches in terms of when dribbling he knocked it too far ahead and lost it, it happened more than you expect from him.

I also felt guys like Abidal and Busquets misplaced passes in ways they normally wouldnt.

I think it was a tired but brave and hard working performance.

Valencia barely threatened and I feel this was the best we have played them over the past year.We had numerous chances and they had very few.
Although as I mentioned that could also be due to them being extremely tired.I noticed that their pressing was not as effective as before.
With better finishing we should have won.
The only Valencia were better was once Tino Costa came on.Then they started to dominate.
Overall,considering the opponent,the venue and all other factors I thought we played well.

Khaledbarca wrote:Diego Alves !!
saved 11 out of 16 penalties in the last 5 seasons/La Liga [70% saves ].
[via jiopsi]

He also saved the only penalty Penaldo missed at Real Madrid. [ note: cristiano scored 23/24 penalties at RealMadrid, 34/38 [89%] in his career at Real and ManUtd.

Messi missed the 7th Penalty in his career at Barca [ Copa 4, Liga 2, CL 1 / he scored one of the 7 missed penalties after the rebound from the GK], Messi Penalties: 20/27 at Barca [74%].

Wow @ Ronaldo's record...well no wonder he scores so many goals, so many from penalties

free_cat wrote:

BarcaKizz wrote:You need to stop the Alexis hate goddamn... Your bias for La Masia players is obvious, we all would prefer to bring up our own youth but there's no point not recognising other talent when they come to us.

Nobody was great last night. Cuenca's a talented dribbler and that little move to put Alexis through was magic, but Alexis' best chance wasn't that one. Otherwise most of the night I can remember Cuenca being in Mathieu's pocket.

That was definitely Alexis best chance if we don't count the offside one. He was on a one on one with a lot of space from the GK. Perfect position.
Cuenca wasn't in Mathieu's pocket at any time, he barely lost balls. I'm not saying he was superb or anything, but I don't think he dissapointed either, at least not to the extent Alexis disapointed with his missed chances.


4:29 Messi does that, and we would all be fapping with both hands.
7:37 link up with Cesc and Messi and great pass to Thiago for the penalty. (yeah, it's not Messi, it's Cuenca)

Cuenca does fine imo in certain games, not so yesterday...he offered no where near as much as Sanchez did, thats so sure... vs the best teams Im not sure if the youngsters have enough atm...

I thought Valencia threaten certainly, quite a lot! But their gameplan was simple, a bit like Real at times, just press and counter on the flanks quickly....we performed better than our last meeting...


And I wanna ask again, can someone explain to me how the training to peak works? I asked this in the general section u guys must have not seen it. So Guardiola trains the players hardest in January so that they are really fit, and will stay that way until the end of the season without getting tired? But whats the point if they are tired so often already during this period in which we are dropping points as a result, or partly as a result...?

Khaledbarca wrote:Diego Alves !!
saved 11 out of 16 penalties in the last 5 seasons/La Liga [70% saves ].
[via jiopsi]

He also saved the only penalty Penaldo missed at Real Madrid. [ note: cristiano scored 23/24 penalties at RealMadrid, 34/38 [89%] in his career at Real and ManUtd.

Messi missed the 7th Penalty in his career at Barca [ Copa 4, Liga 2, CL 1 / he scored one of the 7 missed penalties after the rebound from the GK], Messi Penalties: 20/27 at Barca [74%].

¤ Messi missed 7 penalties: Vs Benidrom [scored goal after the rebound from GK], Real Betis, Valencia, Villareal . / League (2): Sevilla, Recreativo. / CL (1): Panathinaikos.

¤ Cristiano missed 4 penalties Vs Reading, Chelsea, Barca [Man Utd] & Almeria [Real Madrid].

Jiopsi you know that for every pass he made there were 2 dribbles that went on for too long. It was like Messi was on a mission to prove he could dribble past everyone he met.

BarcaKizz wrote:

free_cat wrote:

BarcaKizz wrote:You need to stop the Alexis hate goddamn... Your bias for La Masia players is obvious, we all would prefer to bring up our own youth but there's no point not recognising other talent when they come to us.

Nobody was great last night. Cuenca's a talented dribbler and that little move to put Alexis through was magic, but Alexis' best chance wasn't that one. Otherwise most of the night I can remember Cuenca being in Mathieu's pocket.

That was definitely Alexis best chance if we don't count the offside one. He was on a one on one with a lot of space from the GK. Perfect position.
Cuenca wasn't in Mathieu's pocket at any time, he barely lost balls. I'm not saying he was superb or anything, but I don't think he dissapointed either, at least not to the extent Alexis disapointed with his missed chances.


4:29 Messi does that, and we would all be fapping with both hands.
7:37 link up with Cesc and Messi and great pass to Thiago for the penalty. (yeah, it's not Messi, it's Cuenca)

In my opinion 2.05 was Alexis' best chance. He should of buried both really. I'm not saying he had a great game, but I'm not going to say Pedro would've been any better like you always do either. Like Dani says, he was the only one who ran into goalscoring positions, we have enough dribblers and passers in the hole as it is, it gets really frustrating to watch the pass, pass and no penetration.

You're right, I missed the Thiago penalty. Great play from Cuenca. He's promising yes, and maybe I missed parts where he was better. I don't mean to single him out, nobody was that impressive. Dani points out well that Alba and Mathieu were both down his flank, so thats difficult to deal with.

All I want for you is to get off Alexis' back haha

Alexis has to show more, otherwise I can't stop feeling that he is underperfoming. Might be because I had higher expectations. For that price and reputation, you expected a Di Maria. Not a stronger Pedro with worse finishing.

Also, just to notice that if those Cuenca plays were made by Messi, jiopsi would already have made two gifs out of them!!ç

alexjanosik wrote:

The Franchise wrote:Dont know Alex, I felt it wasnt a good game by us despite the good result.

I think Messi had a ton of bad touches in terms of when dribbling he knocked it too far ahead and lost it, it happened more than you expect from him.

I also felt guys like Abidal and Busquets misplaced passes in ways they normally wouldnt.

I think it was a tired but brave and hard working performance.

Valencia barely threatened and I feel this was the best we have played them over the past year.We had numerous chances and they had very few.
Although as I mentioned that could also be due to them being extremely tired.I noticed that their pressing was not as effective as before.
With better finishing we should have won.
The only Valencia were better was once Tino Costa came on.Then they started to dominate.
Overall,considering the opponent,the venue and all other factors I thought we played well.

I'm with Alex. Considering Valencia away is the toughest game every year, I think we played well. We had 4-5 more chances to score the winner than Valencia.

BarcaLearning wrote:
And I wanna ask again, can someone explain to me how the training to peak works? I asked this in the general section u guys must have not seen it. So Guardiola trains the players hardest in January so that they are really fit, and will stay that way until the end of the season without getting tired? But whats the point if they are tired so often already during this period in which we are dropping points as a result, or partly as a result...?

It seems that since Pep Guardiola took charge, Barça prepares physically to have 2 peaks during the season. They first train hard in preseason, doing a lot of running and double sessions. The effect of this training is noticed several months later, toward the end of the year (november-december) when they reach the first peak.

Then, in january they usually do a second set of intense trainings to reach the peak towards the end of the season. During the charge phases (preseason and january-feb) players are more tired and we usually drop points (in preseason doesn't matter much cause it's friendlies). However, the benefits trump the disadvantadges IMO as the team finishes the season with a bang, and the end of the season is when the titles are finally decided (CL, Cup, and most important league games).

Also, the alternative to the microcicles training, it's a training based in trying to achieve no peaks during the season, but to keep the players at a good level all year long (80% of their capacities). This seems a good idea, but IMO I prefer the microcicles training, because players can reach the best of their capacities when the titles are played (end of the season) and because it is very difficult to keep a constant and stable physical form: it is very likely that even if you train to keep a stable form, you will have peaks and drops of form. So, if you have to have peaks and drops, is better that you try to control when this happens.

This strategy worked extremely well in 08/09 and 09/10 when it was very noticeable that the team reached two peaks in november and towards the end of the season.
In 10/11, we also reached a peak in form in november, when we destroyed Madrid 5-0, however, the peak at the end of the season wasn't noticeable, probably because there were many injuries and we had to rely on the very same players all season long. However, when our starters had some time to rest, the improvement was dramatic in the CL final.

This season we have been inconsitent from the begining and we haven't really hit any peak in form to be honest, neither we can say "we are dropping points" in january-february, as we are doing along the same lines than the rest of the season. Let's hope that we will get a peak at the end of the season at least.

Physical training, as Dani can tell, it's very different from individual to individual, so in the end it's difficult to plan this kind of stuff and it's easy that some players, or all of them, don't respond as expected.

Yep, free said it perfectly. Better than I could. He is right, its very different from person to person.

I mean, guys like Dani Alves, you cant really tell if he is in peak condition or not, he has incredible physical gifts.

But on the Valencia game, I agree they normally play us very well and it was a good result and we had more chances than them while stopping their chances more than usual. But I do feel there were alot of mistakes being made out there, perhaps from both sides, and I saw a hard working performance rather than a talented one.

So Many reasons for the recent blip, injuries, lack of pre season training, accumulated fatigue, teams getting braver, 3 man backline, Cesc, No width (pedro, Villa out), Hunger.

No team can domintate and it's a testament to your teams abilities tbh.

...

free_cat wrote:

BarcaLearning wrote:
And I wanna ask again, can someone explain to me how the training to peak works? I asked this in the general section u guys must have not seen it. So Guardiola trains the players hardest in January so that they are really fit, and will stay that way until the end of the season without getting tired? But whats the point if they are tired so often already during this period in which we are dropping points as a result, or partly as a result...?

It seems that since Pep Guardiola took charge, Barça prepares physically to have 2 peaks during the season. They first train hard in preseason, doing a lot of running and double sessions. The effect of this training is noticed several months later, toward the end of the year (november-december) when they reach the first peak.

Then, in january they usually do a second set of intense trainings to reach the peak towards the end of the season. During the charge phases (preseason and january-feb) players are more tired and we usually drop points (in preseason doesn't matter much cause it's friendlies). However, the benefits trump the disadvantadges IMO as the team finishes the season with a bang, and the end of the season is when the titles are finally decided (CL, Cup, and most important league games).

Also, the alternative to the microcicles training, it's a training based in trying to achieve no peaks during the season, but to keep the players at a good level all year long (80% of their capacities). This seems a good idea, but IMO I prefer the microcicles training, because players can reach the best of their capacities when the titles are played (end of the season) and because it is very difficult to keep a constant and stable physical form: it is very likely that even if you train to keep a stable form, you will have peaks and drops of form. So, if you have to have peaks and drops, is better that you try to control when this happens.

This strategy worked extremely well in 08/09 and 09/10 when it was very noticeable that the team reached two peaks in november and towards the end of the season.
In 10/11, we also reached a peak in form in november, when we destroyed Madrid 5-0, however, the peak at the end of the season wasn't noticeable, probably because there were many injuries and we had to rely on the very same players all season long. However, when our starters had some time to rest, the improvement was dramatic in the CL final.

This season we have been inconsitent from the begining and we haven't really hit any peak in form to be honest, neither we can say "we are dropping points" in january-february, as we are doing along the same lines than the rest of the season. Let's hope that we will get a peak at the end of the season at least.

Physical training, as Dani can tell, it's very different from individual to individual, so in the end it's difficult to plan this kind of stuff and it's easy that some players, or all of them, don't respond as expected.

Wow, thanks for that, I know exactly what u mean. Although the thing is I dont really play sports, have no idea about real life fitnese etc... So I take it that if u train hard and stay fit, it means u will be lean and have the endurance to last the few months after that intense period of training correct? Hence when other players who didnt have that intense period, may be starting to tire, while ur in comparison, still stronger?

If so, I completely agree.... it would be better to play the best in the finals and end of season stuff when it really matters, rather then risk losing those after the hard work of getting to that stage in the first place. Just hope that the players will make it through ok as in the past few seasons....and hoping we get the see the effects soon enough and the results come until the end of the season!