Is Rooney a Top 5 player?

Not at the moment, there is quite a bit of players that are at a similar level to him or higher.
From the EPL alone:
Van Persie, Silva, Aguero, Suarez and more are all playing at a similar level.

When you throw in the likes of Benzema, Ribery, Ronaldo, Xavi, Messi, Iniesta, Fabregas, Ibrahimovic. At the moment it's difficult to say whose top 10 as they are all on top form and probably in better shape then Rooney.

And out of form Tevez, Sneijder, Gerrard, Robben etc etc are similar or better then Rooney as well imo

Nah, not for me. Not clearly more talented nor clearly better performers when each are at their best.

When at their best, Rooney is certainly better than Benzema at his.

Rooney in my opinion is more talented than Benzema. Can not say that about Ibra though.

Barca Bias

Just Kidding....you'll slowly change your mind on that one though..really important to note than Benz is still suffering the same disadvantage rooney had just before his peak.ie Ronaldo with the greed and the shot Jacking.

I will just never rate Rooney ahead of Benzema just because of playing style and bias.

Nah, I love Benzema and was of the few who were backing him while Madrid fans demanded he play better.

I am not bias on this issue, there are certain Madrid players I like and will judge very fairly. Just my opinion.

The Rooney I saw at Euro 04 for example, amazing.

Rooney at his best, can pass better than any striker in the world, and his workrate is one of the best as well. Ppl seem to forget he isnt a true stiker, he wanders about the box as he wills, dropping to midfield or AM or striker. But at his best, hes a force to be recon with, def top 10, dont know about top 5

Im slightly confused by the way people say Rooney is not top 5 because he is inconsistent....and then go on to list Iniesta in there top 5

But anyway no he's not

Iniesta is consisten for Spain and mostly consisten all around.Just dosen't rack up stats.

Similar to Zidane.

bhends wrote:Im slightly confused by the way people say Rooney is not top 5 because he is inconsistent....and then go on to list Iniesta in there top 5

But anyway no he's not

since when is iniesta inconsistent?

The Franchise wrote:Quality wise, I think he might be, but he doesnt bring it consistently enough for me.

The spells of hot and cold are not cool anymore, he is supposed to be in his prime.

^This.

He had the potential when he was younger but we ruined him. Not even top 10 ffs.

I think Iniesta is consistently good...Don't think he is consistently great

Maybe its just cause hes surrounded by Xavi, Busquets and Messi

But thats the way it seems to me

josh wrote:Iniesta is consisten for Spain and mostly consisten all around.Just dosen't rack up stats.

Similar to Zidane.

Its an unfair standard though - Its far easier for Iniesta to have a poor game or go invisible than Rooney because he does so little statistically that almost nothing is expected of him (statistically)...If Rooney goes 5 games without a goal or an assist everyone hops on the "Rooney is overrated again" bandwagon, talk about his poor form, etc....Iniesta can go 20 games without a goal or an assist, then scoop one of either and people will be talking about how class he is

Iniesta has so little pressure on him, its easy to go unnoticed in a game (or string of games) and still not receive criticism for it

If Rooney's performances don't jump off the page people start doubting him and talking about how overrated he is

Thats how I perceive it anyway

And no, I'm not trying to say Rooney > Iniesta - just commenting on the fact that they are held to different standards

Well Rooney is a forward and Iniesta isnt...of course if Rooney doesnt score people are going to notice.

Iniesta doesnt have a role to score or assist, so if he doesnt do it, it doesnt mean he didnt have an excellent game.

Simply put, its harder for Rooney to make an impact without scoring or assisting, whereas Iniesta's game isnt at all dependant on that.

Rooney is geninely inconsistent, Iniesta isnt for me.

That's true.

Iniesta's bread and butter is Spain.....he isn't consistenly a top 3 player in the world with Barca...but he is a top 3 player in the world.

It's easier to judge strikers....they need stats....and sometimes people like Rooney and benzema get overlooked because of that.

That's football i guess.

Wonderful player, Very complete, Even a c*unt.

But not consistent enough to make the top5, Barely makes the top 10 list IMO.

The Franchise wrote:
Iniesta doesnt have a role to score or assist, so if he doesnt do it, it doesnt mean he didnt have an excellent game.

You just said something that is related to Downing, Only fact Downing does not give that good performances but still puts in a good shift.

I think the OP intends to pump this thread on Sunday, anyway top 5 in his position yes.

The Franchise wrote:Well Rooney is a forward and Iniesta isnt...of course if Rooney doesnt score people are going to notice.

Iniesta doesnt have a role to score or assist, so if he doesnt do it, it doesnt mean he didnt have an excellent game.

Simply put, its harder for Rooney to make an impact without scoring or assisting, whereas Iniesta's game isnt at all dependant on that.

Rooney is geninely inconsistent, Iniesta isnt for me.

I think the difference in roles between Rooney and Iniesta is not as distinct as people judge it to be..

From what I see, people perceive:

Rooney = Striker
Iniesta = Midfielder

And then follow the line of reasoning you laid out - Rooney is a striker, he should be judged by goals and assists, Iniesta is a midfielder, his role is more subtle and nuanced...

But how different are their roles, really? Iniesta is an attack-minded midfielder and Rooney a withdrawn forward...Obviously Iniestas role has changed a little since Messi moved to the middle and now occupies the same space that Iniesta largely used to inhabit...But if Iniesta played anywhere in the world other than Barca and Spain he would likely occupy the exact same space (positionally) as Rooney does with Man Utd

Of course - in their rolls, Iniesta will always be just a little more midfielder, and Rooney just a little more forward - but I think the difference between the two is overstated, and as such, - they shouldn't be judged by such extremely different standards


How do you judge Iniesta's play?

Not by goals, not assists, not tackles, not interceptions, not passes completed, not passing rate, not chances created....So how then?

Unless Iniesta is just absolutely giving the ball away left and right people don't consider him to have had a poor game - and on the flip side, he has no expectations or pressure to accomplish anything statistically...

I am not sure about that, I dont utterly disagree with you, but I think you can tell from the way each plays how important goals and such are to each others game.

Iniesta scoring or not scoring goals doesnt change how he plays in the slighest, if Rooney doesnt score for a while you can see it effects his game as a whole.

Iniesta to me, is basically a smaller version of Zidane, who also had unimpressive stats, but his impact is far wider than just stats. I dont think anyone would judge Zidane based on stats when comparing him to other players.

Rooney too, but to me, a clearly lesser degree.

Man Utd rely on Rooney's goals and then to a lesser degree his creativity in the final 1/3, Barca rely on Iniesta being creative in the midfield 1/3 going towards that final 1/3 and being trusted with a lot of touches per game. So, you see the difference and why they are judged differently. Rooney effects the final 3rd of the pitch most, Iniesta the middle 1/3 more.

For me, Iniesta does his role for us more consistently than Rooney does his for Utd.

Top 5 no. Top 10- yes. When he's on form, he is truly world class and dictates our whole attacking game and much more on the field. His only problem is his soft mentality, where any sort of distractions off the field seriously harms his form on the field. Goes through too many rough patches during the season.

The one time he was truly effective was during the 09/10 season, when he was playing solely up front. He was unbelieavable that season until his injury v Bayern + his whole Prostitute scandal that effed up his whole form during the World Cup. Then the whole contract issue during the beginning of the following season.

Good private life= a World Class Rooney imo.

Rooney is probably the only english player who would talk in 90% of the teams

The Franchise wrote:I am not sure about that, I dont utterly disagree with you, but I think you can tell from the way each plays how important goals and such are to each others game.

Wasn't trying to insinuate that goals are equally important to both their games - I just think too much gravity is given to whether or not Rooney scores/assists, and not enough given to Iniesta (Thats not to say they should be given the same gravity, certainly not)

the franchise wrote:Iniesta to me, is basically a smaller version of Zidane, who also had unimpressive stats, but his impact is far wider than just stats. I dont think anyone would judge Zidane based on stats when comparing him to other players.

Heh, well Zidane is a little bit of a touchy subject, I've always felt that he was significantly overrated - after he moved from Juve to Madrid it is my opinion that he became more style than substance - which is not dissimilar to my feelings toward Iniesta

the franchise wrote:For me, Iniesta does his role for us more consistently than Rooney does his for Utd.

This is the crux of it. I agree with this statement. Iniesta does his role for Barca more consistently than Rooney does his for United. My point is that Rooney is at the center of everything Man Utd does...Everything runs through him and he is under an extreme level of pressure to do basically everything for Utd - a level of expectations for each performance which Iniesta frankly just doesn't have...

Iniesta is just one of many playmakers at Barcelona, Rooney is THE playmaker at Utd...


It would be like saying Van Persie is not as consistent as Marchisio...Marchisio performs his role at Juve more consistently than RVP performs his for Arsenal - but thats because Marchisio has a more marginal role at Juve whereas Arsenal relies on RVP to do pretty much everything

Intresting. Well I think if not for a certain Messi, Iniesta would be charged with that highest level of expectation. I have said a few times, if Messi ever left, Iniesta would be our "star" player.

Just like when Cristiano was at Man Urd, Rooney had less responsibility..for me, that doesnt mean he was a lesser player then compared to now, just less responsibility.

I understand the Marchiso-RVP comparison, but its not quite like that. As I said, if not for Messi, Iniesta would be the guy, Marchiso will never be "that guy" regardless of who is on the team. If Rooney played for us, he would be in the same position (just like he was when Man Utd had Cristiano).

I didnt just ignore your first two replies btw, I understand your first point and dont really agree with your second (but thats a debate for another time I believe).

The Franchise wrote:Just like when Cristiano was at Man Urd, Rooney had less responsibility..for me, that doesnt mean he was a lesser player then compared to now, just less responsibility.

Wasn't trying to imply that level of responsibility corresponds with skill...di Natale has a level of responsibility greater than that of Benzema or Gomez...doesn't mean I think he's a better player

the franchise wrote:I understand the Marchiso-RVP comparison, but its not quite like that. As I said, if not for Messi, Iniesta would be the guy, Marchiso will never be "that guy" regardless of who is on the team. If Rooney played for us, he would be in the same position (just like he was when Man Utd had Cristiano).

Ah, but not so fast - as a Serie A fan I know first hand...Juve TRIED to make Marchisio the guy - they tried hard, it just never worked out...He couldn't create consistently enough - and that leads me right back to my point....Marchisio isn't a significantly better or worse player than he was last year - and yet this year he is one of the most consistent out there, last year he was one of the more inconsistent - the only thing that changed was his role

Consistency should be measured relative to the importance/scope of a players role - Thats the phrase I've had on the tip of my tongue since the thread started

Anyway, that was the point I was trying to make. Based on the content of your last post I'd say its pretty clear that you rate Iniesta as a more important player for Barcelona than I do - and that is a separate debate for another time

Indeed, its a fair point I wont really argue with that.

Too inconsistent for Top 5,give me current benzema or RVP any day.