Numbers, that may lead to the fall of this Juventus

+5
DeviAngel
The Nature Boy
The_ItalianFool
Juventude
Luca
9 posters

Go down

Numbers, that may lead to the fall of this Juventus Empty Numbers, that may lead to the fall of this Juventus

Post by Luca Mon Nov 21, 2011 5:28 pm

5: number of central midfielders in the squad
3: number of central midfielders that one can expect to see on a weekly basis in the starting 11
5: number of wingers in the squad
1: number of wingers that one can expect to see on a weekly basis in the starting 11
4: number of central defenders in the squad
3: number of central defenders one can expect to see on a weekly basis in the starting 11

Luca
J Council Master

Club Supported : Juventus
Posts : 14135
Join date : 2011-06-05
Age : 31

Back to top Go down

Numbers, that may lead to the fall of this Juventus Empty Re: Numbers, that may lead to the fall of this Juventus

Post by Juventude Mon Nov 21, 2011 6:14 pm

I'm lost as to why this will lead to the "fall" of this Juventus team. Do you mean it will lead to exits during the transfer window? Depth is good and any top European squad has such depth.
Juventude
Juventude
First Team
First Team

Club Supported : Juventus
Posts : 2792
Join date : 2011-06-05

Back to top Go down

Numbers, that may lead to the fall of this Juventus Empty Re: Numbers, that may lead to the fall of this Juventus

Post by Luca Mon Nov 21, 2011 6:30 pm

The current team is structured to be a wing play dependent Juventus, this is not how it turned out.

Instead, it relies on Pirlo, Marchisio and Vidal, of which there are no suitable replacements for depth on the bench.

It reeks of years past, reliance on a select few (Quagliarella, Krasic, Aquilani and Melo) in key positions which depth do not exist.

Depth is fantastic, unfortunately, Juventus has depth in the wrong positions.

Why does THIS Juventus need 5 wingers?
But there is no Vice Pirlo, no one suitable behind Marchisio or Vidal for that matter.

I'm saying this might result in a problem later on in the season, we cannot expect 38 games from those three in the middle and I consider the midfield to be the most important position in Conte's Juventus.

This team was structured for a 4-2-4/4-4-2 of which is clear.
5 central midfielders for two spots
5 wingers for two spots
4 central defenders for two spots

That breakdown makes sense
Then Juventus sells Ziegler, PDC flops, Grosso cannot do it- so Chiellini must move, three central defenders now.
Pirlo's play has been immense, Marchisio and Vidal have been just as good, so naturally they all must play. Now three central midfielders play.
So, Juventus decides to keep playing wingers but only play one striker (4-1-4-1). Result, a late win against Milan through dominating play and then an uninspired game against Chievo which chances were far and few between. Something has to change; a second striker is added in Matri, this means a winger is dropped.
Immediate impact, Juventus begins scoring goals, Vucinic and Matri play together well, they both start.

That is the current Juventus, it has already changed several times as I have noted. It may change again, in all honesty, based on the current squad breakdown by position it has to for the long run.

Sure, Conte can have his preferred 11 and preferred line up for next week against Lazio and then against Napoli but there is such a thing as wear and tear.

Short version:
-Ever changing Juventus squad
-Depth in wrong places due to the formation/idea changes/player form
-No long run with this Juventus, for sure
-I believe this is the strongest Juventus we will see, maybe Krasic or Elia in place of Pepe if you really want more offense but nevertheless this a strong squad fielded each week but this is not the point.
-To continue with three central midfielders; Juventus must move two wingers in January, as Quagliarella was even used on the left wing yesterday as was Vucinic, too many cooks. Juventus must then buy 1 quality midfielder in the form of a vice Pirlo (Marco Verratti has been talked up so much that I am on board) and then promote Gabriel Appelt who has also been talked up greatly. A left back or central defender must also be bought.

Luca
J Council Master

Club Supported : Juventus
Posts : 14135
Join date : 2011-06-05
Age : 31

Back to top Go down

Numbers, that may lead to the fall of this Juventus Empty Re: Numbers, that may lead to the fall of this Juventus

Post by The_ItalianFool Mon Nov 21, 2011 6:33 pm

No long run? Unbeaten for 2 months is a pretty good long run. If we make it to January we are golden.

Conte hasnt officially decided to abandon wingers yet either.

The_ItalianFool
The_ItalianFool
First Team
First Team

Club Supported : Liverpool
Posts : 2216
Join date : 2011-06-05
Age : 33

Back to top Go down

Numbers, that may lead to the fall of this Juventus Empty Re: Numbers, that may lead to the fall of this Juventus

Post by The Nature Boy Mon Nov 21, 2011 6:35 pm

its an intense analysis. I am not discrediting your hypothesis, but this is what January is for. Its clear we went into the season with a different plan in mind from the product that we see on the field now. I think January will be a good time for us to reinforce in the areas that need it. I am worried however, that if players get offloaded, we will mysteriously need the depth in the positions we cut down
The Nature Boy
The Nature Boy
First Team
First Team

Club Supported : Liverpool
Posts : 1449
Join date : 2011-06-06
Age : 37

Back to top Go down

Numbers, that may lead to the fall of this Juventus Empty Re: Numbers, that may lead to the fall of this Juventus

Post by Luca Mon Nov 21, 2011 6:39 pm

Well, I am not saying it will happen, I am just worried because of previous seasons.

I mean looking at last season
Quagliarella, Krasic, Aquilani and Melo were protagonists from the midfield to attack.
One piece falls- Qualiarella
The next piece- Melo three game suspension in the same game as Fabio's injury
The next piece- Krasic fades dramatically
The next piece- Aquilani follows suit

Matri brought in, too little, too late
Juventus falls

This is a situation, now, that can be corrected though that is the good news

Luca
J Council Master

Club Supported : Juventus
Posts : 14135
Join date : 2011-06-05
Age : 31

Back to top Go down

Numbers, that may lead to the fall of this Juventus Empty Re: Numbers, that may lead to the fall of this Juventus

Post by Juventude Mon Nov 21, 2011 6:39 pm

I think you're over-analyzing the current state of the team. I believe that Conte wanted multiple wingers to plug them in, he didn't request one or two star wingers. So, the true strength is in his central midfield. In my opinion, to have three proven players, is a luxury not a requirement. While Juve may have gotten success from four players in the past and that's what they're doing now, that's how most teams operate. And, unlike past years, we are not thin in terms of depth at any position except in lacking a backup for Pirlo. Last year, we were in major trouble if any regular starter got injured. That's not as much the case this year. We have more depth and we don't even play in any European competitions.

A nice young or veteran player to back up Pirlo would be nice along with a utility defender that could play multiple positions along the back line during the January window.

I said I would reserve my judgement on Conte until after he got through the five game stretch of Inter, Fiorentina, Palermo, Lazio, and Napoli. So far, we have claimed 9 points from three matches. If we are able to have 12 or more points after Lazio and Napoli, I will be quite pleased with this team's progress and expect more victories against bottom half of the table teams.
Juventude
Juventude
First Team
First Team

Club Supported : Juventus
Posts : 2792
Join date : 2011-06-05

Back to top Go down

Numbers, that may lead to the fall of this Juventus Empty Re: Numbers, that may lead to the fall of this Juventus

Post by DeviAngel Mon Nov 21, 2011 7:16 pm

guys don't forget the cup starts this month it will be crucial for us and our depth
DeviAngel
DeviAngel
Admin
Admin

Club Supported : Liverpool
Posts : 21324
Join date : 2011-06-05
Age : 124

Back to top Go down

Numbers, that may lead to the fall of this Juventus Empty Re: Numbers, that may lead to the fall of this Juventus

Post by eddy Mon Nov 21, 2011 7:18 pm

ok atm some players are vital for our form.our big success for far depends on our mid.Pirlo-Marchisio and Vidal are very important for our team so far.

Gabriel will join us in january and can be a cover for Pirlo or Marchisio.

i think we can cover 1 of them atm switch to 4-2-4 or even use Pazienza.

ok in a injury and out of form crisis that none of them can play we are doom.but none team can have back up in their top players.they can cover 1-2 of them maybe but not all of them.

as we are playing 4-3-3 now i think in january we will see 1-2 faces for our mid.

about defense.our big problem there is our left back and we need a good transfer there.no point to sign more CB starters as our players are fine there just one left back and we are good.

and ofcourse we need to sell some forwards-wingers.as some forwards can play as wingers etc most normal is to sell wingers.what i dont like to see is guys like Iaquinta or Matri to used as wingers.that was a big problem the last years that we used strikers in wingers positions.some of them Vucininc-Quagl etc can play there and they have the dribbling skills that their position req so its fine but using guys like Iaquinta or Amauri that we did the last years there is a big mistake.

who will leave and who will come depends on Conte but first some players that cost alot of us like Krasic and Elia need to have one more chance until they leave.
also i dont want to see alot of transfers just few faces that needed to fix our team balance.

eddy
eddy
Hot Prospect
Hot Prospect

Club Supported : Liverpool
Posts : 256
Join date : 2011-06-05
Age : 36

Back to top Go down

Numbers, that may lead to the fall of this Juventus Empty Re: Numbers, that may lead to the fall of this Juventus

Post by salmano9 Mon Nov 21, 2011 7:39 pm

we are playing 4-2-3-1 guys.. with vucinic on wing...
I wanna see elia!!!!
I lost faith in krasic sadly Sad
salmano9
salmano9
Fan Favorite
Fan Favorite

Club Supported : Malaga CF
Posts : 7401
Join date : 2011-06-05
Age : 27

Back to top Go down

Numbers, that may lead to the fall of this Juventus Empty Re: Numbers, that may lead to the fall of this Juventus

Post by juve_gigi Mon Nov 21, 2011 9:43 pm

I think Luca makes some valid points. He is basically saying that we started out the year playing a 4-2-4 which is wing dependant, and now we are playing a 4-3-3, or 4-2-3-1, which is midfield dependant. So now we have 4 wingers on average on the bench doing nothing but helping Amauri out in the kitchen, while our top midfielders are starting every game and slowly wearing out.

Of course there is nothing we can do about it now, but it is pretty clear to me that our best formation and what Conte is ultimately going to stick with is a 4-3-3 or some variation of it, so those 4 wingers helping Amauri out will not be needed anymore, or at least 2 of them anyway, while we will need reinforcements in the middle to help out our 3 key midfielders.

In my opinion, I think we will ship 2 wingers out in January and add at least one midfielder and a LB so that Chiellini can move back to the midldle. My hunch is Grosso will be shipped out to make room for a new LB and that Krasic at the very least will be shipped out to make room for a central midfielder. Of course that is on top of Amauri and most likely Iaquinta leaving as well.
juve_gigi
juve_gigi
First Team
First Team

Club Supported : Juventus
Posts : 3672
Join date : 2011-06-06

Back to top Go down

Numbers, that may lead to the fall of this Juventus Empty Re: Numbers, that may lead to the fall of this Juventus

Post by Luca Mon Nov 21, 2011 9:53 pm

Agreed on all points Pino, the transfers you suggest make the most sense.
I would like to see Caceres in, because he can cover all 4 spots in the back line and start as a LB with ease. Not to mention he has expressed his desire to return.

I also agree with Dejan, Juventus has not even played every team once, so it is hard for us to judge. There is still Lazio, Roma, Napoli to be played for starters.

@juventude
I certainly am over-analyzing but I do believe you are under-analyzing to a degree. Conte did not want to 'plug wingers in' he wanted a squad with 5 wingers so that he could rotate and always have fresh legs out there. He showed this in the first game against Parma by changing Giacch for Krasic fairly early in the second half if I recall correctly (cannot remember off the top of my head right now).

Position wise though, this squad has been made very poorly when you really look at it. Mainly talking about the winger situation, Ziegler should have also stayed I really did not understand that move at all.

Luca
J Council Master

Club Supported : Juventus
Posts : 14135
Join date : 2011-06-05
Age : 31

Back to top Go down

Numbers, that may lead to the fall of this Juventus Empty Re: Numbers, that may lead to the fall of this Juventus

Post by Camurrìa.Sto.Stronzo Mon Nov 21, 2011 9:58 pm

juve_gigi wrote:I think Luca makes some valid points. He is basically saying that we started out the year playing a 4-2-4 which is wing dependant, and now we are playing a 4-3-3, or 4-2-3-1, which is midfield dependant. So now we have 4 wingers on average on the bench doing nothing but helping Amauri out in the kitchen, while our top midfielders are starting every game and slowly wearing out.

Of course there is nothing we can do about it now, but it is pretty clear to me that our best formation and what Conte is ultimately going to stick with is a 4-3-3 or some variation of it, so those 4 wingers helping Amauri out will not be needed anymore, or at least 2 of them anyway, while we will need reinforcements in the middle to help out our 3 key midfielders.

In my opinion, I think we will ship 2 wingers out in January and add at least one midfielder and a LB so that Chiellini can move back to the midldle. My hunch is Grosso will be shipped out to make room for a new LB and that Krasic at the very least will be shipped out to make room for a central midfielder. Of course that is on top of Amauri and most likely Iaquinta leaving as well.

What the? Pino when did you get into my head, I was going to say all of this. OMG LOL. Perfectly said, and I completely agree + 1
Camurrìa.Sto.Stronzo
Camurrìa.Sto.Stronzo
Banned (Permanent)

Club Supported : Liverpool
Posts : 4413
Join date : 2011-09-06

Back to top Go down

Numbers, that may lead to the fall of this Juventus Empty Re: Numbers, that may lead to the fall of this Juventus

Post by Sponsored content


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

Back to top

- Similar topics

 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum