Is this a penalty and/ or red card?

50/50 call IMO. and Lord knows that Barcelona have had 50/50 calls go their way before.

It's only natural that some don't go your way.

Lord Spencer wrote:

bhends wrote:The first one is a dive and a half...Messi avoids the tackle easily but falls down anyway looking for the penalty

The second one is a tough call - the GIF is crappy quality for me...From what I see, If the ball was more clearly under the control of Messi I would stay stonewall penalty, but it seems to be getting away from him and more of a 50/50 ball than anything...you aren't going to get a penalty on a 50/50 ball in the box in the 94th minute..

I quite agree, plus from what I saw from the second ball. #4 touched the ball before #23 did the foul, so that is not a penalty.

The first one was judged to be minimal contact and no foul was given. If video technology was being used, Messi would be probably booked for a dive. Nothing to complain about here really, the bad call evened out in the end.

So, if those weren't bad calls, what bad calls are talking about that evened out?

jiopsi wrote:

Lord Spencer wrote:

bhends wrote:The first one is a dive and a half...Messi avoids the tackle easily but falls down anyway looking for the penalty

The second one is a tough call - the GIF is crappy quality for me...From what I see, If the ball was more clearly under the control of Messi I would stay stonewall penalty, but it seems to be getting away from him and more of a 50/50 ball than anything...you aren't going to get a penalty on a 50/50 ball in the box in the 94th minute..

I quite agree, plus from what I saw from the second ball. #4 touched the ball before #23 did the foul, so that is not a penalty.

The first one was judged to be minimal contact and no foul was given. If video technology was being used, Messi would be probably booked for a dive. Nothing to complain about here really, the bad call evened out in the end.

So, if those weren't bad calls, what bad calls are talking about that evened out?

Minor calls throughout the match, no major calls were given to either team. The much talked about red for Alba is fair if he did indeed insult the lineman.

Lord Spencer wrote:

jiopsi wrote:

Lord Spencer wrote:

bhends wrote:The first one is a dive and a half...Messi avoids the tackle easily but falls down anyway looking for the penalty

The second one is a tough call - the GIF is crappy quality for me...From what I see, If the ball was more clearly under the control of Messi I would stay stonewall penalty, but it seems to be getting away from him and more of a 50/50 ball than anything...you aren't going to get a penalty on a 50/50 ball in the box in the 94th minute..

I quite agree, plus from what I saw from the second ball. #4 touched the ball before #23 did the foul, so that is not a penalty.

The first one was judged to be minimal contact and no foul was given. If video technology was being used, Messi would be probably booked for a dive. Nothing to complain about here really, the bad call evened out in the end.

So, if those weren't bad calls, what bad calls are talking about that evened out?

Minor calls throughout the match, no major calls were given to either team. The much talked about red for Alba is fair if he did indeed insult the lineman.

What minor calls? Just admit that you thought they were bad calls. Alba red? It has nothing to do with anything as it came couple seconds before final whistle. Why did you even bring that up?

jiopsi wrote:

Lord Spencer wrote:

jiopsi wrote:

Lord Spencer wrote:

bhends wrote:The first one is a dive and a half...Messi avoids the tackle easily but falls down anyway looking for the penalty

The second one is a tough call - the GIF is crappy quality for me...From what I see, If the ball was more clearly under the control of Messi I would stay stonewall penalty, but it seems to be getting away from him and more of a 50/50 ball than anything...you aren't going to get a penalty on a 50/50 ball in the box in the 94th minute..

I quite agree, plus from what I saw from the second ball. #4 touched the ball before #23 did the foul, so that is not a penalty.

The first one was judged to be minimal contact and no foul was given. If video technology was being used, Messi would be probably booked for a dive. Nothing to complain about here really, the bad call evened out in the end.

So, if those weren't bad calls, what bad calls are talking about that evened out?

Minor calls throughout the match, no major calls were given to either team. The much talked about red for Alba is fair if he did indeed insult the lineman.

What minor calls? Just admit that you thought they were bad calls. Alba red? It has nothing to do with anything as it came couple seconds before final whistle. Why did you even bring that up?

I don't think they were bad calls, and the explanation provided by bhends is gold. I ref amateur games and understand all the pressure that comes with reffing games with big names (even amateur teams have some menacing fan bases). The ref was good not to succumb to the pressure of the occasion.

The first penalty was not a foul, and was a dive. If any call should be taken, it is a yellow for Messi.

The second penalty, #4 touched the ball before Messi was brought down. According to the rules of FIFA.

"If a defender touches the ball before contact with the attacker, no foul is given"

Lord Spencer wrote:

jiopsi wrote:

Lord Spencer wrote:

jiopsi wrote:

Lord Spencer wrote:

bhends wrote:The first one is a dive and a half...Messi avoids the tackle easily but falls down anyway looking for the penalty

The second one is a tough call - the GIF is crappy quality for me...From what I see, If the ball was more clearly under the control of Messi I would stay stonewall penalty, but it seems to be getting away from him and more of a 50/50 ball than anything...you aren't going to get a penalty on a 50/50 ball in the box in the 94th minute..

I quite agree, plus from what I saw from the second ball. #4 touched the ball before #23 did the foul, so that is not a penalty.

The first one was judged to be minimal contact and no foul was given. If video technology was being used, Messi would be probably booked for a dive. Nothing to complain about here really, the bad call evened out in the end.

So, if those weren't bad calls, what bad calls are talking about that evened out?

Minor calls throughout the match, no major calls were given to either team. The much talked about red for Alba is fair if he did indeed insult the lineman.

What minor calls? Just admit that you thought they were bad calls. Alba red? It has nothing to do with anything as it came couple seconds before final whistle. Why did you even bring that up?

I don't think they were bad calls, and the explanation provided by bhends is gold. I ref amateur games and understand all the pressure that comes with reffing games with big names (even amateur teams have some menacing fan bases). The ref was good not to succumb to the pressure of the occasion.

The first penalty was not a foul, and was a dive. If any call should be taken, it is a yellow for Messi.

The second penalty, #4 touched the ball before Messi was brought down. According to the rules of FIFA.

"If a defender touches the ball before contact with the attacker, no foul is given"

First one a dive? Now I have heard it all. If player takes a lunge to your feet and not to a ball, and it's a clear contact, it is a foul, hence a penalty/ freekick, and/ or yellow.



The second one, it doesn't matter if the #4 touched it, it still was in front of Messi, and completely playable, before #23 tackled Messi on the ground without touching the ball. The ball goes over line only after, Messi hits the ground.

FFS in the second one the guy practically tackles Messi..

He just read you the relevant FIFA rule straight from the books and what do you counter with?

"It doesn't matter"

You are showing an angle not available to any of the refs for the first one. So I can't see how the ref would make a call on that.

Let me restate my position, I am speaking from a ref's point of view, with the tools available to me as a ref.

The first incident; you get Messi and two defenders at the edge of the box. Messi gets into contact but does not fall down at first, only when the ball is out of his reach that he does. I am sorry, but the ref would naturally assume it was minimal contact tumble and would not call it. If it was an actual foul, at that speed Messi would have surely fallen down, but he expertly dodged the tackle.

The second incident; the lineman sees #4 touching the ball, the ball was in the air and there is 50% Messi might do something with it. No foul as the advantage for Messi was cleared by #4. If #4 did not touch the ball, then a stronger penalty claim can be made.

bhends wrote:He just read you the relevant FIFA rule straight from the books and what do you counter with?

"It doesn't matter"

What the hell are you on about? He is twisting the scenario to fit a particular rule, which it doens't apply.

It's not a penalty because the ref didn't blow his whistle.

Is that a good enough reason for you?

Lord Spencer wrote:The first incident; you get Messi and two defenders at the edge of the box. Messi gets into contact but does not fall down at first, only when the ball is out of his reach that he does. I am sorry, but the ref would naturally assume it was minimal contact tumble and would not call it. If it was an actual foul, at that speed Messi would have surely fallen down, but he expertly dodged the tackle.

I'm sure Messi would have catched it without the lunge to his feet. He tried to dodge the tackle, but didn't succeed. That is a foul anyway, it shouldn't even matter if he could catch it or not. You tackle a player, by not catching the ball, is a foul.

The second incident; the lineman sees #4 touching the ball, the ball was in the air and there is 50% Messi might do something with it. No foul as the advantage for Messi was cleared by #4. If #4 did not touch the ball, then a stronger penalty claim can be made.

It wasn't cleared by #4, it was only touched. Messi would have gotten it, if #23 wouldn't have taken him to ground. Which also were a foul.

The first one is debatable... it could go either way really.

The second one is a clear penalty. That's just...terrible.

But whatever. It happens, it will happen. It's in the past now.

Sorry bruv first one is not debatable. Clear dive by Messi
The second one is debatable.

Lord Spencer wrote:

bhends wrote:The first one is a dive and a half...Messi avoids the tackle easily but falls down anyway looking for the penalty

The second one is a tough call - the GIF is crappy quality for me...From what I see, If the ball was more clearly under the control of Messi I would stay stonewall penalty, but it seems to be getting away from him and more of a 50/50 ball than anything...you aren't going to get a penalty on a 50/50 ball in the box in the 94th minute..

I quite agree, plus from what I saw from the second ball. #4 touched the ball before #23 did the foul, so that is not a penalty.

The first one was judged to be minimal contact and no foul was given. If video technology was being used, Messi would be probably booked for a dive. Nothing to complain about here really, the bad call evened out in the end.

Second one is cler penalty. It doesn't matter if the #4 touched the ball before the #23 tackles Messi from behind without touching the ball. Fouls are not a team thing, but individual. Even if Messi didn't have the ball at all, a player just can't go and tackle him without the ball. It would be an agression then. Miguel was just stupid as that tackle wasn't needed, however the ref saved his ass. Both are penalties, the second being more clear than the first.

both are penalties
the first one though is a difficult one to call and those ones get missed at some point in the season for every team, move on
the second one is clear cut as they come, its a clear penalty and really the ref should be in a postion to call that

IMO it was not a penelty

clear dive by messi. I am not surprised.

Messi should take some lessons from Dive Maria & Cristina!